Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[wipster]

I'm as bullish as they get, but every new Telsa model has had teething problems, I don't see why MY would be any different.

I expect them to be less than M3 though as they will have learned and improved since then.

It's not just Teslas... every new car line has teething and QA/QC problems, regardless of the manufacturer. It disappoints me this is happening with the model Y since there is so much shared with the 3, but maybe the manufacturing process is quite a bit different than I thought. I'm sure the month layoff didn't help either. But hopefully the problems, like the seatbelt connection, are easily rectified and the lessons learned are incorporated into future production.

This too shall pass...

 

[SOULPEDL]

There is a saying in the car industry about not buying the first year of a new car.

Lol, and I first heard that advice back in the 70's from our neighbor who recommended against my did buying that first US Mazda Rotary. But I recall my pickup date knowing full well, on line, that if you saw a problem, then don't take delivery. It's an old, old trick for max leverage on anything really.

I'd much rather see Q2 profit followed by some cleanup (which they always do), vs missing a key metric for long term growth. Just think long term.

Innovation invites variation - BRING IT ON!

 

[EdKan]

Now green again. The fun never stops.....

 

[tinm]

I wouldn't put it that way. Some cars do have problems, but the number of cars with problems is highly overstated.

I agree that some cars have problems, though I am skeptical of the "highly overstated" part. I think unhappy buyers tend to be vocal, for sure. But the majority are silent, take their cars, and go on with their lives. Which Tesla's counting on.

I'm starting to think Tesla's management strategy with car quality is "management by luck." They're continuing to count in incredible levels of customer goodwill, generated through the sheer delight and fun of the Tesla driving experience, the look and functionality of the cars, the feeling of being set FREE from the clutches of the oil and gas industry, and the feeling of helping the overall company mission and climate crisis mitigation and the sense of "belonging" with the millions of others who've already taken the plunge, etc. So there's all this goodwill that historically has helped out Tesla with customers overlooking/forgiving quality issues going back to day one.

I agree with others that the Y is still new, and anything new with relatively low VINs may have some issues. Most will be forgiven by new owners, if they even notice them. The detail-oriented, checklist-carrying mavens among us might send the car back, or demand repairs/corrections, and I think this is where the luck factor comes in: Tesla's counting on the number of such send-it-back-and-fix-it demands to be relatively low. If it got really big, then it becomes an Issue. And Tesla is also incentivized, by Wall Street and shareholders in general, to perform well in each quarter, especially in the current Q2 due to the pandemic. All these pressures come bearing down on Tesla and I think the company continues to count on luck with regard to the quality control issues that probably affect a small-to-medium portion the factory's output. Me, personally, I'd raise holy hell if I were Elon and fix the effing QC problems, put new management in place, do whatever it takes. But that's just me.

 

[wipster]

I agree that some cars have problems, though I am skeptical of the "highly overstated" part. I think unhappy buyers tend to be vocal, for sure. But the majority are silent, take their cars, and go on with their lives. Which Tesla's counting on.

I'm starting to think Tesla's management strategy with car quality is "management by luck." They're continuing to count in incredible levels of customer goodwill, generated through the sheer delight and fun of the Tesla driving experience, the look and functionality of the cars, the feeling of being set FREE from the clutches of the oil and gas industry, and the feeling of helping the overall company mission and climate crisis mitigation and the sense of "belonging" with the millions of others who've already taken the plunge, etc. So there's all this goodwill that historically has helped out Tesla with customers overlooking/forgiving quality issues going back to day one.

I agree with others that the Y is still new, and anything new with relatively low VINs may have some issues. Most will be forgiven by new owners, if they even notice them. The detail-oriented, checklist-carrying mavens among us might send the car back, or demand repairs/corrections, and I think this is where the luck factor comes in: Tesla's counting on the number of such send-it-back-and-fix-it demands to be relatively low. If it got really big, then it becomes an Issue. And Tesla is also incentivized, by Wall Street and shareholders in general, to perform well in each quarter, especially in the current Q2 due to the pandemic. All these pressures come bearing down on Tesla and I think the company continues to count on luck with regard to the quality control issues that probably affect a small-to-medium portion the factory's output. Me, personally, I'd raise holy hell if I were Elon and fix the effing QC problems, put new management in place, do whatever it takes. But that's just me.

I see where you're coming from but remember the only people you hear from is people that have problems, not people who are extremely happy with their cars. Who writes articles about that? That's not news. But if you have quality concern problems, especially with a Tesla, that's news and so that's why we hear about it.

I think it would be great if there was a satisfaction survey given to all owners after a month so that you could see basically what the quality of the cars were. Anyone that does not reply is counted as a positive answer. That might go a long way towards tackling these articles that insinuate that all model Y's are defective in some way. Just a thought...

 

[StealthP3D]

Tesla doesn't commercially advertise. Its competitors in the automobile and oil industries do so quite heavily. Advertising is the lifeblood of the media. Negative Tesla comments draw clicks/eyeballs without hurting the publisher's revenues. An underlying intent may be to force Tesla to advertise. Meanwhile, it inspires gratitude from those who do advertise.

This is true. Between the manufacturer's advertising and car dealership ads, there is about $1,000 worth of advertising per car sold. That's almost 3% of the purchase price going from the buyer's pocket to media advertising! And the media doesn't have to actually build anything, they get the 3% just to convince you to buy one!

 

[Bunky]

That was pretty rough about 45 minutes ago when the share price was down and there were reports of Model Y quality issues

(/s)

 

[JohnSnowNW]

I agree that some cars have problems, though I am skeptical of the "highly overstated" part. I think unhappy buyers tend to be vocal, for sure. But the majority are silent, take their cars, and go on with their lives. Which Tesla's counting on.

I'm starting to think Tesla's management strategy with car quality is "management by luck." They're continuing to count in incredible levels of customer goodwill, generated through the sheer delight and fun of the Tesla driving experience, the look and functionality of the cars, the feeling of being set FREE from the clutches of the oil and gas industry, and the feeling of helping the overall company mission and climate crisis mitigation and the sense of "belonging" with the millions of others who've already taken the plunge, etc. So there's all this goodwill that historically has helped out Tesla with customers overlooking/forgiving quality issues going back to day one.

I agree with others that the Y is still new, and anything new with relatively low VINs may have some issues. Most will be forgiven by new owners, if they even notice them. The detail-oriented, checklist-carrying mavens among us might send the car back, or demand repairs/corrections, and I think this is where the luck factor comes in: Tesla's counting on the number of such send-it-back-and-fix-it demands to be relatively low. If it got really big, then it becomes an Issue. And Tesla is also incentivized, by Wall Street and shareholders in general, to perform well in each quarter, especially in the current Q2 due to the pandemic. All these pressures come bearing down on Tesla and I think the company continues to count on luck with regard to the quality control issues that probably affect a small-to-medium portion the factory's output. Me, personally, I'd raise holy hell if I were Elon and fix the effing QC problems, put new management in place, do whatever it takes. But that's just me.

I believe the majority of the car buying public are/were like me. When I went to purchase a new vehicle I did the test drive, if I liked the way it drove I bought it. I didn't go over it with a fine-toothed comb.

Tesla has always gotten more scrutiny than other makes, and this has enlarged the pool of potential owners that go over the car in great detail at purchase. It has also changed the way car reviews are done...I honestly can't remember discussions on panel gaps in reviews before people started making it a thing with Tesla.

All other companies have QC issues with their cars, it's the nature of making things. Does Tesla have higher QC issues than others, or is it that Tesla simply gets more scrutiny and the megaphone is on blast? Not sure I can answer that question definitively, but I can say I started paying more attention to my other vehicles since, and have certainly found misaligned panels, and paint defects on all of them. *shrugs*

 

[LN1_Casey]

Before we decend into yet another discussion on Tesla's customer service issues, let us be distracted by this Top Priority Business Insider article.

There's an Elon Musk Tweet Coloring Book for sale.

Now, we can all draw the infamous 420 tweet to calm ourselves and remind us that TSLA is a turbulent stock, but it all comes around. xD

 

[AZRI11]

I agree that some cars have problems, though I am skeptical of the "highly overstated" part. I think unhappy buyers tend to be vocal, for sure. But the majority are silent, take their cars, and go on with their lives. Which Tesla's counting on.

I'm starting to think Tesla's management strategy with car quality is "management by luck." They're continuing to count in incredible levels of customer goodwill, generated through the sheer delight and fun of the Tesla driving experience, the look and functionality of the cars, the feeling of being set FREE from the clutches of the oil and gas industry, and the feeling of helping the overall company mission and climate crisis mitigation and the sense of "belonging" with the millions of others who've already taken the plunge, etc. So there's all this goodwill that historically has helped out Tesla with customers overlooking/forgiving quality issues going back to day one.

I agree with others that the Y is still new, and anything new with relatively low VINs may have some issues. Most will be forgiven by new owners, if they even notice them. The detail-oriented, checklist-carrying mavens among us might send the car back, or demand repairs/corrections, and I think this is where the luck factor comes in: Tesla's counting on the number of such send-it-back-and-fix-it demands to be relatively low. If it got really big, then it becomes an Issue. And Tesla is also incentivized, by Wall Street and shareholders in general, to perform well in each quarter, especially in the current Q2 due to the pandemic. All these pressures come bearing down on Tesla and I think the company continues to count on luck with regard to the quality control issues that probably affect a small-to-medium portion the factory's output. Me, personally, I'd raise holy hell if I were Elon and fix the effing QC problems, put new management in place, do whatever it takes. But that's just me.

As an ex (in-process QC) for a wire & cable mfg problems get caught before shipping, but if your already late on production VP's override and ship it even if there's minor defects, or in my case shortcut req. testing. My QC department always had battles with the production dept. Usually a engineering VP would sign off and release product. On the production line QC persons aren't always to blame.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

I believe the majority of the car buying public are/were like me. When I went to purchase a new vehicle I did the test drive, if I liked the way it drove I bought it. I didn't go over it with a fine-toothed comb.

Tesla has always gotten more scrutiny than other makes, and this has enlarged the pool of potential owners that go over the car in great detail at purchase. It has also changed the way car reviews are done...I honestly can't remember discussions on panel gaps in reviews before people started making it a thing with Tesla.

All other companies have QC issues with their cars, it's the nature of making things. Does Tesla have higher QC issues than others, or is it that Tesla simply gets more scrutiny and the megaphone is on blast? Not sure I can answer that question definitively, but I can say I started paying more attention to my other vehicles since, and have certainly found misaligned panels, and paint defects on all of them. *shrugs*

Agreed. When i was buying a car back then, i would read the physical color catalog, test drove it and chose my color.....then this little thing called the WWW came along, which harvested both useful information and videos, but also created trolls aka short sellers and bashers. There are some QC issues with Tesla, but you are not obligated to accept delivery, or if you do, Tesla SC will fix them if you can put up with it.

 

[Joe F]

I think it would be great if there was a satisfaction survey given to all owners after a month so that you could see basically what the quality of the cars were. Anyone that does not reply is counted as a positive answer. That might go a long way towards tackling these articles that insinuate that all model Y's are defective in some way. Just a thought...

I got a survey from Tesla corporate after I bought my S in Dec '16. I don't know if they still send them out or not. I dinged them on paint issues, and wasn't happy about the failed attempt(s) by the local center to fix them, making it worse IMHO.

The local manager contacted me, requesting I write the issue up and send it in, and offered to have a local body shop repair the paint since I was not happy with the way their attempt to fix the problem turned out.

I've had paint problem with new cars over many years, and even one major nightmare of a fix, and decided it just wasn't worth trying to fix, and decided I'd do it myself.

Bottom line, I still haven't fixed the areas. The car still drives and looks better than ANY car I have owned over 50+ years. Paint drips, while I agree should not happen in the first place, and is a quality issue with the automated system used, does not affect the joy of driving a Tesla, at least for me. Besides, one road trip over 1000 miles can cause more paint dings on the front of the car, especially with stone chips from all the road construction over the last few years, that it's just not worth my time to bother with.

 

[EVDRVN]

Before we decend into yet another discussion on Tesla's customer service issues, let us be distracted by this Top Priority Business Insider article.

There's an Elon Musk Tweet Coloring Book for sale.

Now, we can all draw the infamous 420 tweet to calm ourselves and remind us that TSLA is a turbulent stock, but it all comes around. xD

It just needs pictures of the Y so your kids can fix all the paint chips for you. They can even fill in the panel gaps. The kids will find these flaws faster than the blind people at the factory.

 

[elasalle]

It just needs pictures of the Y so your kids can fix all the paint chips for you. They can even fill in the panel gaps. The kids will find these flaws faster than the blind people at the factory.

We need one with Serious TSLAQ Cash Burn ...

 

[Curt Renz]

Electrek - half hour ago: Tesla secures new cobalt deal as it phases out the controversial mineral - Electrek

 

[computerchuck]

Ben Sullins post:

After a week of living with our Model Y we started to notice some issues. These run the gamut from cosmetic to functional.
- 5 Model Y Delivery Issues To AVOID! - Ben Sullins

 

[Captkerosene]

There are some posts over on Reddit Tesla page that people have refused delivery of their Model Y. I say good for them. Instead of running to a forum or YouTube to complain, just refuse delivery. Elon gets the reports and if there is a trend of returns for a certain reason (paint), it will get fixed.

People have become so sensitized to panel gaps that they're showing up with micrometers when they pick up their cars. Relax. The magic of the car is what's on the inside.

 

[Tslynk67]

I agree that some cars have problems, though I am skeptical of the "highly overstated" part. I think unhappy buyers tend to be vocal, for sure. But the majority are silent, take their cars, and go on with their lives. Which Tesla's counting on.

I'm starting to think Tesla's management strategy with car quality is "management by luck." They're continuing to count in incredible levels of customer goodwill, generated through the sheer delight and fun of the Tesla driving experience, the look and functionality of the cars, the feeling of being set FREE from the clutches of the oil and gas industry, and the feeling of helping the overall company mission and climate crisis mitigation and the sense of "belonging" with the millions of others who've already taken the plunge, etc. So there's all this goodwill that historically has helped out Tesla with customers overlooking/forgiving quality issues going back to day one.

I agree with others that the Y is still new, and anything new with relatively low VINs may have some issues. Most will be forgiven by new owners, if they even notice them. The detail-oriented, checklist-carrying mavens among us might send the car back, or demand repairs/corrections, and I think this is where the luck factor comes in: Tesla's counting on the number of such send-it-back-and-fix-it demands to be relatively low. If it got really big, then it becomes an Issue. And Tesla is also incentivized, by Wall Street and shareholders in general, to perform well in each quarter, especially in the current Q2 due to the pandemic. All these pressures come bearing down on Tesla and I think the company continues to count on luck with regard to the quality control issues that probably affect a small-to-medium portion the factory's output. Me, personally, I'd raise holy hell if I were Elon and fix the effing QC problems, put new management in place, do whatever it takes. But that's just me.

Tesla has a way shorter time to market compared to other manufacturers, this leads to more faults. It also leads to a much higher QA group than you could get internally, which shakes out the faults much quicker than would be possible in-house.

All part of their different way of doing things, like it or not.

 

[Krugerrand]

I wouldn't put it that way. Some cars do have problems, but the number of cars with problems is highly overstated.

I can hardly wait for my year one CYBRTRCK; paint issues and all. Bring it!

 

[Tslynk67]

This is how to do upgrades: