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Seriously: I would love to speak with even one Tesla owner who has ever spoken with, emailed, answered a survey solicitation, or otherwise engaged with J.D. Power and Associates with regard to their Tesla purchase.

As far as I know, Tesla is one of the few OEMs who is not a client of J.D. Power and Associates. I have asked JDP and in fact have interviewed some people who work there, and they won't say. Does anyone know any different?

Some states require the OEMs permission for J.D. Power to be able to survey car purchasers. Tesla has refused to authorize JDP to do that. But I recently saw that JDP is going to survey Tesla owners in states that don't require Tesla's permission, but that the results won't be in the main report because it isn't complete.
 
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Ali vs Frazier

Celtics vs Lakers

Dodgers vs Yankees

The greatest rivalries of all time. I don’t like to use the word hate, but man, I really don’t like TSLA shorts. However, you’ve got to give the Devil his due; they don’t quit.

The battle between TSLA shorts and longs will studied for decades to come. Tesla’s “Master Plan” is changing the world — it is redefining business. Indeed, we are participating in history. All things fine and good, for those that would build a better future.
 
Some states require the OEMs permission for J.D. Power to be able to survey car purchasers. Tesla has refused to authorize JDP to do that. But I recently saw that JDP is going to survey Tesla owners in states that don't require Tesla's permission, but that the results won't be in the main report because it isn't complete.

But won't stop them bleating about anything negative they discover, whilst oddly ignoring all the positive.

All part of the corrupt system, like stealerships, Consumer Reports, Moodys, etc.
 
The battle between TSLA shorts and longs will studied for decades to come. Tesla’s “Master Plan” is changing the world — it is redefining business. Indeed, we are participating in history. All things fine and good, for those that would build a better future.

If any future historians are reading this know that I, Mike Smith, coined 'Spiegel Bottom'.
 
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Some states require the OEMs permission for J.D. Power to be able to survey car purchasers. Tesla has refused to authorize JDP to do that. But I recently saw that JDP is going to survey Tesla owners in states that don't require Tesla's permission, but that the results won't be in the main report because it isn't complete.

But won't stop them bleating about anything negative they discover, whilst oddly ignoring all the positive.

All part of the corrupt system, like stealerships, Consumer Reports, Moodys, etc.

well, I decided to read the d*mn article although I usually avoid clicking CNBC links. Here is the highlight of their conclusions. Quote:
“The industry average for 2020 model-year vehicles was 166 problems per 100 vehicles. Tesla had 250 problems per 100 vehicles. The top-rated brands were Dodge and Kia both at 136 problems per 100 vehicles.

The less technology in a brand’s vehicles, the better they typically perform in the survey because there are fewer issues to report, according to Dave Sargent, vice president of automotive quality at J.D. Power.”

so, in other words, lets all drive old fashioned buggys with all manual everything and no automation or technology. And Viola! Less complaints!
A computer on wheels like the Tesla - absolutely not! Too much to complain about - like the infotainment system, navigation system or the horror of horrors- the large touch screen!!!
 
Unless there's a reason to think there's a big quality difference between the 70% states and the 30% states that shouldn't matter a ton to the results.

You don't know enough to make that claim.

There are probably differences in the presentation of the survey that could lead to bias as to who responds (most people throw such surveys in the trash so this could be a very significant deal). The surveys that are sponsored and approved by GMC, Ford, etc. probably make use of that fact to increase the number of responsive owners. JD Powers can't pretend to be doing the survey with Tesla's approval which probably harms the response rate (although those with an issue to complain about have a higher motivation to respond). Also, my guess is that Tesla owners have a lower response rate than those purchasing from traditional OEM's (but again, those with something to complain about want to be "heard").

There's a reason why JD Powers excludes the Tesla data (because they know it's not statistically comparable). To make up excuses and say it shouldn't matter much and the results should be comparable is to do the same thing JD Powers is doing when they exclude the data (presumably for good scientific reasons) but then go ahead and compare it anyway as a favor to their OEM customers.

Statistically valid surveys show Tesla owners have the highest owner satisfaction rates of ANY brand by a strong margin which doesn't really square with the way JD Powers is presenting their incomplete data, that the cars have bigger issues than the rest of the industry.
 
Do we actually know how common this issue is?

I have a 2013 P85 and I'm on my 4th MCU. First one had screen oozing, next one wouldn't come out of reset, and one stopped accepting touch input. On the bright side, it didn't cost me any money and now I have LTE instead of 3G

There's a pretty big thread about it on Tesla's Model S forum

That being said, I view it as a minor inconvenience rather than some kind of massive problem.
 
You're one sick puppy...
peanut.gif
 
That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. First of all he's trying to boost a company's profile by comparing them to one he's constantly bearish about.

Secondly, GM are not Tesla and can never be. Tesla were a start-up, they operated without the chain of legacy, without constrains on what was possible. Tesla are agile, they dare to do things wrong, but iterate fast enough to recover. On top of that, no existing fossil cars they need to cannibalise.

The only way GM could become like Tesla - same for all incumbents - would be to spin-off a new company GME, for instance, full go new hires, untainted by the GM corporate culture. Give them a blank page, don't hold them accountable, just set them some lofty unrealistic goals and let the get on with it. No interfering, no steering, total freedom. Then allow their products to compete with existing GM offerings.

That might have a chance of success...
Or perhaps hummEV...
 
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Bit misleading- they explain it in the story... 35/50 states registration info is available without MFG permission... in 15 it's not... Tesla does not give them permission.

So they still have data on 70% of US states to send surveys to owners, just not the other 30%.

Unless there's a reason to think there's a big quality difference between the 70% states and the 30% states that shouldn't matter a ton to the results.
But how did they determine who to survey? Were the number of responses close to the rest of the makes surveyed? How many people responded out of how many surveyed? Were the same questions asked? Too many questions about their methodology to treat this unauthorized "survey" as reliable IMHO.
 
You don't know enough to make that claim.

Yes I do- because it's how statistics work.

If there's no substantive difference between the 35 states included, and the 15 not, in terms of vehicle quality, then it shouldn't matter to the validity of the results nationally.




There are probably differences in the presentation of the survey that could lead to bias as to who responds (most people throw such surveys in the trash so this could be a very significant deal). The surveys that are sponsored and approved by GMC, Ford, etc. probably make use of that fact to increase the number of responsive owners. JD Powers can't pretend to be doing the survey with Tesla's approval which probably harms the response rate (although those with an issue to complain about have a higher motivation to respond).


Can you unpack that a bit?

To my knowledge they send the same survey to everyone.

So again there should be no difference from one person to another in that regard.... and no impact of any kind regarding who 'sponsors' anything.

Everyone gets the same set of questions.




Also, my guess is that Tesla owners have a lower response rate than those purchasing from traditional OEM's (but again, those with something to complain about want to be "heard").

That's possible. But again doesn't really change much unless you have a reason to think upset Tesla owners are somehow MUCH more likely to respond than upset owners from all other brands?


There's a reason why JD Powers excludes the Tesla data (because they know it's not statistically comparable).

But they don't exclude it.

The entire point of the story was that they're publishing their results based on the 35 states they were able to send surveys to.

It does get an asterisk, because hey, maybe there's some weird reason cars in 70% of US states are MUCH WORSE than the cars that get delivered to the other 30%- no way for them to know since they can't survey them.

But to my knowledge no such difference in quality between states appears for any other car maker- so why should it for Tesla?



To make up excuses and say it shouldn't matter much and the results should be comparable is to do the same thing JD Powers is doing

That's not an excuse- it's a basic understanding of how statistics work.


Statistically valid surveys show Tesla owners have the highest owner satisfaction rates of ANY brand by a strong margin which doesn't really square.


Sure it does.

You're comparing two different things.


JD Power simply tallies the total # of issues with new cars in the first 90 days. That's it.

If your wheels fall off while driving 70 mph.... or your charge port door is slightly misaligned... that's each ONE problem.

Of exactly equal value in the survey.


If you don't like how sometimes your Tesla doesn't send a voice-to-text message (a problem mine has) that's ONE problem.

So is if your front axle collapses as some Fords had happen to them a while back.



Now... it's likely the owners of the more serious problems I mention will have much lower SATISFACTION with their cars... because that's a DIFFERENT question being asked.



You seem to be looking for excuses as why 70% of US states reporting a high # of initial problems (a fact, based on JD Powers data) somehow isn't a fact.


Instead you should be understanding the framework of that fact, and why those owners are likely (are almost certain to be based on other data available) still more satisfied with those cars than owners of other vehicles that had fewer, but likely more serious, problems.
 
We're staring at a 2-3 week macro downturn so put your big boy pants on and let's not howl "Shorts!" at every SP dip. I was tempted to sell at $1010 and buy back in late Aug, but then I remembered I'm a moron.

Holding forever, unless we hit something absurd like $2k in early 2021. Gonna stick to my strategy of buying oil industry puts on the upswings and churning out of them on days like today. Will take the profits from the next 6 months oil volatility and buy more TSLA one share at a time.
 
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Adam is probably putting in some overtime hours with his Tesla bear thesis. It's behind a paywall but some notes below from the latest Barron's article.

GM’s Electric-Vehicle Business Could Be Worth $100 Billion, Says Morgan Stanley

General Motors’ growing electric-vehicle business could be worth up to $100 billion, according to Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas.

It’s a huge number. General Motors (ticker: GM) market cap is roughly $38 billion—and most of that value is derived from selling and leasing gasoline- and diesel-powered cars and trucks. The gap is huge. To arrive at his surprising conclusion, Jonas asks investors to look at GM the way they look at another EV maker: Tesla (TSLA).

We desperately need an ‘R U ******* kidding me?!’ button.
 
The way I look at it is:
1. It's a computer kept in a very hostile environment.
2. Cabin overheat protection hasn't been around for that long.
3. Computers typically get replaced every three to five years.
4. Now that there is cabin overheat protection, the MCUs should last far longer (assumes people actually use it).
Replacing the computer (mine was replaced at six and one half years) at long intervals appears to be just a part of normal maintenance. i don't really see any problem. (I have a problem with the reduction in Supercharging kW.)

This is all new technology. Tesla doesn’t have 100 years behind them. Stuff is going to break. Tesla is going to iterate and improve the product. In 100 years we’ll have EVs that are more reliable than today’s. Surprise, people!
 
But how did they determine who to survey? Were the number of responses close to the rest of the makes surveyed? How many people responded out of how many surveyed? Were the same questions asked? Too many questions about their methodology to treat this unauthorized "survey" as truthful IMHO.


Seriously- they explain all this.

They've been doing this for decades- and their methodology has been explained a bunch of places.

They send a survey to registered owners (I think twice a year) based on public registration info, asking the same 200+ questions of everyone. They require a statistically significant # of replies for to be counted (which they GOT for Tesla), etc...

They got over 1200 replies from Tesla owners- more than enough for a valid sample size given sales numbers.

It's not an "unauthorized" survey either... WTF does that even mean?

Tesla simply chose not to give them access to registration data in 15 states so they could only send surveys to those in the other 35.




Again- there's reasons not to read too much into the results- the fact a crooked trim piece has equal weight with a failed drivetrain for example.

But the data, such as it is, is perfectly valid.
 
Seriously- they explain all this.

They've been doing this for decades- and their methodology has been explained a bunch of places.

They send a survey to registered owners (I think twice a year) based on public registration info, asking the same 200+ questions of everyone. They require a statistically significant # of replies for to be counted (which they GOT for Tesla), etc...

They got over 1200 replies from Tesla owners- more than enough for a valid sample size given sales numbers.

It's not an "unauthorized" survey either... WTF does that even mean?

Tesla simply chose not to give them access to registration data in 15 states so they could only send surveys to those in the other 35.




Again- there's reasons not to read too much into the results- the fact a crooked trim piece has equal weight with a failed drivetrain for example.

But the data, such as it is, is perfectly valid.

Given we have many Tesla owners in TMC, how many received the Survey?
Most Telsa customers seem to be highly satisfied with their car.

Who provided oversight? All good surveys could just be thrown own, to provide a narrative that suits their need.

Moody Credit ratings, JD etc etc I just don't trust them --
 
Seriously- they explain all this.

They've been doing this for decades- and their methodology has been explained a bunch of places.

They send a survey to registered owners (I think twice a year) based on public registration info, asking the same 200+ questions of everyone. They require a statistically significant # of replies for to be counted (which they GOT for Tesla), etc...

They got over 1200 replies from Tesla owners- more than enough for a valid sample size given sales numbers.

It's not an "unauthorized" survey either... WTF does that even mean?

Tesla simply chose not to give them access to registration data in 15 states so they could only send surveys to those in the other 35.




Again- there's reasons not to read too much into the results- the fact a crooked trim piece has equal weight with a failed drivetrain for example.

But the data, such as it is, is perfectly valid.
Figures don't lie, but liers figure...