Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Fun Fact: TSLA ($373B Mkt Cap) is now equal in value to the largest Automakers from each of the following Countries:
  • Japan (Toyota) $185.3B
  • Germany (VW) $86.2B
  • U.S.A. Big 3 (GM) $41.6B
  • China (SAIC) $31.0B
  • Korea (Hyundai) $30.7B
View attachment 578888

If I may channel Chris Rock, "That tiger ain't go crazy; that tiger went tiger!" Now that Tiger is eating other Countries 1st-Born... :p

Cheers!

Looks like Tesla will surpass the rest of the industry combined at a share price of $3,700.85
 
I purchased the teslanaire.com domain sometime last year. I didn’t have a real plan in mind for it but wanted to keep it within this community. Your comment reminded me & I’ll start kicking around some ideas. Input welcome. Great community here. Hope everyone is doing well, we’re just getting started.

Possibly FAQs to de-FUD?

Encourage new Tesla car buyers to buy some TSLA stock as well?

List out who has made bad-faith claims and follow the money?

Some economics, but especially physics of hydrogen and why / who is promoting it as a 'well when hydrogen is here, all these EVs will be scrapped, toxic waste in landfill, cobalt....'

Explain that cobalt is mostly used in fossil fuels and where does it actually end up.

Pollution, health links.
 
Options strikes with better returns, higher leverage?

This might not be the best forum to ask this question.
However, I believe many here might have a good answer to this.

It appears many go for "lottos" through strikes furthest OTM. @Lycanthrope ?
I believe that's for high leverage.
Anyhow, whether anyone here does that or not, I have been doing this :)

I was of the view that for a given expiry date, theoretically the leverage is higher for higher strike contracts.
Leverage is ratio of contract-price-percent-change / share-price-percent-change.

Let's take options expiring in September-2021, strikes 2000 and 2400.
The contract prices of each of these compared to their prices the previous day should've grown unevenly. 2400 should have grown at a higher %.
However, I noticed that the contract price for strike $2000 had higher returns than for the contract price of 2400.
Today, 08/20, 2000 strike grew by ~16%, 2400 strike grew by 13.3%.

One explanation I can think of is the % change on the brokerage page likely is comparison between the last sold price at yesterday's close with last sold price at today's close.
I plan to track the bid/ask at closing time for a few days and see if this is the case. Assess the % changes through mid point at closing time.

Do mid-point (bid/ask) price changes not follow this lower/higher leverage pattern? That is, mid-point for 2700 strike not expected to grow faster in % points, than that of 2000 strike?
 
In addition to conversions of pretax IRA, 401(l), 403 (b), 457 to ROTHs (with taxes paid up front in the conversion - best from other sources of funds) there is the so called backdoor ROTH which allows you to convert after tax IRA's to ROTHs. As you get older, you will appreciate that ROTHs have no requirement for RMD's when you reach 72, and so can grow tax free for as long as you or your spouse (if you name your spouse as the primary beneficiary) live - the longest lived one. Then the next beneficiary (like your grandchild) gets another 10 years of tax free growth after the second death. Of course, if you need the money, you can always take whatever you need out (after certain lengths of time) totally tax free. I haven't researched it, but you may be able to use your ROTH as collateral against a loan, so you wouldn't necessarily have to take it out, if you can pay back the loan with other funds.

We did this in 2011 when the ROTH conversion was allowed. Both my wife and I had put away our maximum pretax savings during our working lives into 403(b) and 457 and some IRAs. We fortunately had other after tax assets that we used to pay the taxes on the conversions. Since we had been quite conservative in our investments over the years (index funds mostly) and my wife had considerably more in her account, we stayed with the index funds with her ROTH and decided to play a bit with my ROTH. We had solar panels installed on our home by Solar City in 2009, then bought our Model S in 2012 with delivery in early 2013 (we were 43XX). I saw how great the Model S was and thought about buying TSLA, but dawdled until late 2013 before sinking half of my ROTH into TSLA on a big dip (after some big FUD) and got it at 130. In early 2016 after my other half of my ROTH hadn't done much, I sold it and sunk the other half into TSLA at 190, after another dip (after some other FUD). I just left to slowly grow over the next years until I took notice of the jump over 300 and then 400 late last year. After it jumped in January, I realized I still had $1000 cash in the account. When the crisis hit and the stock plummeted below $500, I put in a buy order for 2 shares, which I got for $440 each. I now have a 15 bagger on my first half and 10 bagger on my second half and a nice more than quadrupling of my last 2 shares in 5 months. What is most remarkable is that on Monday the increase in my TSLA shares on that day was more than the total of my original ROTH balance in 2013. At 75, I haven't had to do any required minimum distributions and all the growth is tax free. If we don't have to use it and we live another 15 years, our heirs will have 25 more years of tax free growth without having to take out any money. If we have to use it, it will tax free. My wife's ROTH has grown reasonably. It started at about 2.5x as much as my ROTH. It has grown almost 70% in 7 years and now is 1/3rd the value of my ROTH.


Great story and good job!

No, do not use your Roth as collateral for a loan. If you do, all of your earning in said Roth, are then subject to taxation. Please do not do that.
 
Last edited:
This is idiocy. If you don't understand options well then you shouldn't be trading them at all. Paying somebody else to trade them would be madness. You would have no idea if, when they lost all your money, they were unlucky or stupid or criminal.

This whole thing is simply about fools being greedy. If you want to own a piece of Tesla, and prosper as Tesla prospers, it's pretty simple. Just buy their stock and sit on it.
I was just curious if there are such advisers at these popular brokerages.
 
No, I'm afraid you have it wrong.

I have presented correlation between stock splits and significant outperformance relative to other, non-split stocks. (I don't care about causation v. correlation: an increased SP is a good thing, regardless of the reason.) Since you appear to have missed the links, I'll post some of them again:

Stock Splits Pay Off—on the Rare Occasions They Occur

And:

Here’s the real reason why buying a stock after it splits can be a money maker

Key point:

Since July 1996, which is how far back the NYSE’s calculations go, the index has beaten the Wilshire 5000 index W5000, +0.33% by an annualized margin of 12.1% to 9.0% (including dividends).

This market-beating performance shouldn’t come as a surprise, since a number of academic studies have reached a similar result. One of the first such studies was authored by David Ikenberry, a finance professor at the University of Colorado. Ikenberry believes the market-beating performance of stocks that have split their shares traces to a “sweet spot” in which the typical company likes to have its stock trade.

Though that sweet spot is not precisely defined, companies will not split their shares, even if the prices of those shares have risen sharply, if management believes there is a significant probability that shares of their company will fall back . . . .

And:

What Do Stock Splits Really Signal? by David L. Ikenberry, Graeme Rankine, Earl K. Stice :: SSRN

We observe significant post-split excess returns of 7.93% in the first year and 12.15% in the first three years for a sample of 1,275 two-for-one stock splits. These excess returns follow an announcement return of 3.38%, indicating that the market underreacts to split announcements. The evidence suggests that splits realign prices to a lower trading range, but managers self-select by conditioning the decision to split on expected future performance. Pre-split runup and post-split excess return are inversely related, indicating that our results are not caused by momentum.

**********
Yet you go on and on as if this is nothing.

I have asked you to either expose the methodological failings in the studies, or present sciential evidence to the contrary; you persist in failing to do so.

Thus, with no facts, your posts simply waste everyone's time.

Please, stop.

Thank you.

Did the academic studies compare the performance stocks that have split to other companies that didn't split that had similar pre-split stock performances?

It is of little surprise that stocks that split outperform the broad markets (as splits normally follow large stock price increases due to a company outperforming, so it wouldn't be a surprise for the company to continue outperforming in future). It would however be very surprising if two nearly identical performing companies had noticeable difference in stock price returns if one split and the other didn't.
 
I am watching the lakers beat the Blazers. An e-tron commercial just had a kid sitting in the backseat as mommy turned on the car. And the kid looked like they were in the SpaceX Dragon...coincidence?
2019 Audi e-tron TV Commercial, 'The Next Frontier of Electric' [T1]
Not their first etron astronaut commercial

There you go, confirmation that Audi is at least 6 years behind Tesla.
And this was one of the first fan made Tesla commercial... zero money spent


I prefer the original but ... well copied Audi!
 
Frankfurt update right before US pre-market opens:

Ger.jpg


EDIT: Now €1,725.20 => $2,043.15
 
View attachment 578813 Cheers to the longs on a wonderful day!

@Lycanthrope I see your Belgian "pool beer" and raise you one of my 2017 Westvleteren XII's from my cellar :D

Good choice, sir! Haven't tasted it myself since, oooooo, 2004, or something like that. Need to try it again - of course you need to book with the abbey direct now and take the car, with your licence-plate recorded, etc. The up-side is that you pay €2 per bottle, not €12 like they charge in the specialist shops...

I didn't posts any beers yesterday, but you can find them all here: https://twitter.com/AskDrStupid/status/1296512497193820160

It was a glorious day...
 
Including Green Pete.

I hope some of you also took me up on my "not advice" for june 2022 1500 strike when they were 36 bucks in March.

Yeah, I bought 10x Jun 2022 c1400's in the C19 dip, but sold a few weeks later for 3x on the fear of a 2nd dip. Otherwise I would have het them.

Still, my trading portfolio is up 200x from last September, $3.5k -> $700k, and you are one of the main reasons for that.

I think I've thanked you several times already, but here I got a gain, tusind tak!

(a bit of Danish there - and don't forget that beer when you're passing Brussels...)