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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I still think Q3/Q4 will be good and positive for the stock price, but not as much as I used to a few months ago. Analysts have been upping their targets, so it's likely the market as a whole is at least somewhat less unaware of what Tesla's Q3/Q4 will look like.

Also one other thing to point out........even the bullish analysts with the high price targets are still underestimating Tesla's 2021 and 2022 production capabilities. Wedbush has a 3,500 bull case that sees Tesla producing 1.4 million cars in 2025. Practically no one is giving Tesla Energy any sort of value still o_O

Which means Tesla, even with these price target upgrades, is still being underestimated by Wall St. Which is completely fine with me because it'll much easier to keep a rally going when Wall St continues to sell your company short on expectations.

Edit: Actually I think Wedbush's PT is 1,900 with an estimate of 1.3 million cars produced in 2025. Still, Tesla will likely be more than double that 1.3 estimate and Wedbush doesn't factor in Tesla Energy growth. So their 1,900 PT is very low based on what will actually happen in the next couple of years
 
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Did some more fieldwork today. Below are flyovers of 47700 Kato, South Fremont Factory and North Fremont Factory (Gigacast). Seems that they're still installing the Gigacast machine. What a beast.....

Screen Shot 2020-08-26 at 5.26.40 PM.png

 
OT (only sort of)
Having a *sugar* load of hardcore dollar sitting in your ROTH 401K (Jeez I don't even know if that's the right name for it) makes the money real as *sugar*.
It isn't like it is "only paper" any longer. It is a shock to the mind, and cool too....sorta. I did not think it would be this strong a feeling. Now I go, "I could buy a Cubertruck and still have enough left over for groceries for life."
 
Please feel free to ignore my long-form musings below and continue on to the next post...


After much success, I like to recheck my original thesis and evaluate the risks to it:
What are the main obstacles to Tesla achieving a $20K stock price/$4T market cap by 2030?

I’ve broken them into 3 areas: Focus, Competition, and of course, Black Swan. I’m sure your concerns differ from mine, and I’d like to hear them.

Focus
It’s hard to imagine Tesla being this successful without the leadership of a certain Mr. Musk. He‘s running, at last count, 42 different companies disrupting every industry on, and off, earth.

If he were to devote substantially less of his time to Tesla, or to leave it outright, that would have a material impact over time. And the impact to market confidence would be outsized.

I traded Apple a decade ago, and when Steve Jobs “left” Apple, it made for a very difficult 2011, even though he’d built the company to the point that it could execute without him. Tesla is comparable in so many ways to Apple, but visionary leadership and execution on that vision are at the top. Elon exiting Tesla soon would likely alter its trajectory, despite how much of his “DNA” he’s injected into it.

The focus on Energy is a big factor here, too. After acquiring Solar City, the energy business took a back seat (pun intended) to the auto business, mostly for the M3 ramp. Good business decision, in retrospect. But we also saw the energy side languish, providing an uncomfortable glimpse into what it looks like when a product line isn’t being focused on. We know energy is the secret modifier that isn’t currently priced into the stock much, so is a risk if Tesla takes its eyes off it again.

Competition/Complacency
The fact is that Tesla is years ahead of everyone else in everything that matters, plus their brand is top-notch. But maintaining that lead is going to be harder as more resources are dumped into the competition. I know this is a tired TSLAQ trope, but only because there’s a kernel of truth to it.

Again drawing from Apple, the iPhone was revolutionary, and unique — for about a year before the copycats started. And they were good copies. I’m sure a lot of you unfortunates have Android phones (that have collectively outsold iPhones). There are plenty of companies that will give Tesla real competition. A couple of them will be spun out of the traditional automakers, and many will be startups, most of which probably don’t exist yet.

It’s easy to get complacent about that lead. Nio and some of the other 150 Chinese EV companies I don’t know much about could become global leaders. I’m not worried about the likes of Nikola, but Lucid looks legit. Again, they’re at the pre-production of Model S stage of their company, so are way, way behind, but I like what I see. Fisker may not be dead, yet.

The barriers to entry in the EV market are substantial, and Tesla has gotten over the hump that many will fail at surmounting. But some will succeed, and it could mean the difference in market share of millions of vehicles per year. So if the projection assumes, say, a 20% market share in 2030, that could be at risk.

There are also going to be lots of specialized vehicle companies that Tesla won’t compete directly with, but that may want strategic partnerships to share technology and to supply components. What’s going to happen to CAT over the next decade? Will Tesla supply them with EV tech, or will someone else?

Black Swan (nuclear war, aliens, global pandemic, etc)
So far, so good on this front...

—————————————————————————

Do you disagree or have other risk areas I didn’t cover? Solid state batteries leapfrogging tech? Mr. Fusion?

Elon is the big wildcard from what I see; no surprise there. And I think that objectively he’s a pretty big risk as far as CEOs go, but this is where you either drink the Kool-Aid or you don’t.

But regardless of Elon and his quirks, there is very little question that EVs are the way forward, and that Tesla is leading that effort in multiple aspects in multiple markets, so why not bet on the current leader?
 
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The Bullish Case for Nio Stock Is Greatly Misguided

Anyone having stakes in Nio?

from that article, it seems like they will not have a similar thing to a giga factory for mass production. Will they only be making “roadster” like EVs?

Having the Best stock in EV space, best to ignore all others in same sector. I even stopped caring what NKLA is up to ;) cheers!!

530% gain in 5$ stock and it is now at ~ 20$. :) (Would not currently put anything more than a few 100 $ in NIO anyway)
 
In all fairness, I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the gains involved here.

How does one preserve huge returns on skyrocketing shares? Buying puts sounds like burning money.

I am looking at a 37% or so tax rate on anything I sell, and the unrealized gains are huge. In many of the instruments I own, the gains would be 95% or greater of the overall sale proceeds.

I am not complaining here.

Does anyone have recommendations on how to go about protecting profits without actually liquidating? Is the only way to become someone that does not absolutely suck at the timing needed to both buy and sell puts at the right time?

To be clear, I am not interested in selling and see TSLA at 10,000 or so in five to ten years, if not next Tuesday.

Any input greatly appreciated. Thanks to all and congrats!

I don't get it. If you're not intending to sell for 5-10 years and you think the SP is going to $10k by then -- what exactly needs protecting??
 
I bought TSLA (sunk half of my Roth IRA) in November 2013. It had run up from the 35-40 range when we got delivery of our MS the previous February into the high one hundreds (TSLA's first big breakout). When there was some big FUD, it dropped to the low 100's and I jumped in at 130. I just calculated my rate of return from then to one year ago (November 2013 to August 2019), when it was in the low 200's. I made a compound profit of 9% a year (130 to 213). That was almost exactly the same compound appreciation of the S&P500 over the same period of time of 8.7% per year (1800 to 2900). So I was not an unhappy camper at that point. My Roth was and is a long term investment - for retirement monies if I need them and for estate planning for our grandchildren if I don't. Of course, since then, the increase has been 9108% and my total compound profit is 52% per year. What a difference a year makes.
 
The Bullish Case for Nio Stock Is Greatly Misguided

Anyone having stakes in Nio?

from that article, it seems like they will not have a similar thing to a giga factory for mass production. Will they only be making “roadster” like EVs?

I have a few thousand shares. Yep, up a lot on a percentage bases but no where near my absolute gains in TSLA.

Even in the most optimistic scenario Tesla will have 20-30% share worldwide. There will be room for others and NIO is looking to expand beyond China. Just glad their market cap is now above that virtual truck company with the founders initials of TM. NIO actually makes a few thousand cars a month.
 
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I have a few thousand shares. Yep, up a lot on a percentage bases but no where near my absolute gains in TSLA.

Even in the most optimistic scenario Tesla will have 20-30% share worldwide. There will be room for others and NIO is looking to expand beyond China. Just glad their market cap is now above that virtual truck company with the founders initials of TM. NIO actually makes a few thousand cars a month.
Interesting. Just heard of that company yesterday at work. Wasn’t aware of their progress. Gotta look into their finance and due diligence.
 
I have a few thousand shares. Yep, up a lot on a percentage bases but no where near my absolute gains in TSLA.

Even in the most optimistic scenario Tesla will have 20-30% share worldwide. There will be room for others and NIO is looking to expand beyond China. Just glad their market cap is now above that virtual truck company with the founders initials of TM. NIO actually makes a few thousand cars a month.

This will be my only post on Nio since I don't want to contribute too much to off topic......but Nio has none of the advantages of Tesla which will make ramping very difficult overseas and even in China. They make a few thousand cars a month, at a negative gross margin and since they don't control their manufacturing and are the exact opposite of Tesla in terms of vertical integration, they have had and will continue to have a very hard time improving that margin to a level that is actually sustainable to expand. They are going to have even more issues when Model Y launches in China because they're are going to be price pressured on the SUV EV's they're selling right now. They benefit from being one of the only few SUV EV's from China that aren't terrible and their only competition is the Model X which retails at a significantly higher price points due to imports.

Tesla can continually drops costs through manufacturing efficiency improvements, parts improvements, battery improvements, etc...Nio benefits from none of this. I would take those gains and skip along joyfully ;)
 
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There's a part of me that fears we are in the midst of the holy mother of all buy on rumor and sell on news for battery day.

Battery Day could go either way...

I don't know about the share price, but I have a strong hunch where the business is going...

At present the share price seems to be "forward looking", but a lot of money has been printed recently, perhaps money has been devalued.