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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I have RBC accounts and they are showing deposit of the dividend shares. I'm going to guess that your shares have been lent out. RBC needs the stock to start trading so they can borrow or outright purchase the shares in the open market on Monday and deliver by September 2. The reason it is the 2nd, is settlement is T+2. In other words, you have an IOU out against RBC. I'd be complaining about that, if I were you. IMO, RBC has aided and abetted manipulative short sellers who need the stock to start trading in order to deliver the dividend to you. BS. You want them on the pay date. IMO, this is evidence of what some us have been talking about: I.e., the inability of the shorts to find enough shares to deliver on the due date, because of the enormous amount of phantom shares.

@MTL_HABS1909
if RBC has credited Hock, and not you, that’s weird, and potential mistake or problem. whether your shares are lent or not should not matter. you should see the split share proceeds (corporate action position adjustment) in your account balance ...whether it’s a placeholder until the brokerage receives the allocation from the depository, or the actual shares, your account needs to remain equity neutral with the market...
in other words, when monday opens
you need either
1) the additional 4 shares per old share
2) 4 fake/contra shares, valued at the mkt price of tsla, in lieu of the final shares

3) fake equity (accrual) of the expected value of the 4 extra shares

so that when the mkt price opens at 440 or whatever, you don’t see your net liq value drop off a cliff and acct subject to liquidation or margin (for those using margin or deficient due to other account positions)

i can’t comment as to RBC’s operational procedure, but generally it should be something of the above

for example, IB does #1 for us and canadian customers, even though they won’t receive, as a firm, the allocated split shares for all its customers until DTCC credits them (could be later monday, maybe tuesday, etc). point is, the customers are correct and in balance with the market in the meantime
 
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Is anyone's balance on their accounts all screwed up with the split? I wish it was true :( I have multiple millions. Our accounts are with Vanguard.
Yes, I saw it on Vanguard a little while ago too. lol

I took a screenshot to keep as a memento from the future.

When all the current Gigafactories and a few more are running at full tilt, when Tesla Energy gets to be as big as the automotive side of the business, when battery production continues exponential growth and when robotaxis hit the roads, we’ll easily have reached the point in the future from whence the memento came — say 2024 or so.

I am not inclined to sell, but if I get tempted I’ll take out that screenshot to remind myself where we’ll be soon. :cool:
 
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For those who think TSLA share price is in a bubble, most are recent entries and either are not aware or forget the growing pains Tesla experienced during peak FUD between September 2013 and May 2019, that is just shy of six years of a flat share price at $190 (pre-split) and counting inflation a decrease in net worth over that time frame. This for a company that was selling >2,000 EVs/month of one model, the Model S, in September 2013. No Gigafactories in Nevada, New York, Shanghai 1 & 2, Berlin and Texas, No Model 3, No Model Y, No Roadster, No Semi, No Cybertruck. This recent run is verification of the Tesla mission and served as a springboard for share price. There is no mass produced competition expected until 2025, by then Tesla will be selling >350,000 EVs/month and welcomes every other EV that comes on the market. And don't get me started on battery storage, solar roofs...

I have never felt more comfortable in my Tesla investment than today and IHMO there is no better investment. Will TSLA go up in straight line? Definitely not. Will it continue to go up over multi-year time frame? Definitely Yes. At these price levels many are in TSLA for a quick trade, and many will exit at a loss. For those invested for the long term, there is no safer place to invest for our future than Tesla.

View attachment 582016

Thanks for posting this, including the chart. In many ways the price action of mid 2013 is very similar to that of 2020. We took delivery of our MS is February of 2013 (number 43XX) and I had been looking at TSLA for some time. It had been stuck in a trading range of 30 to 40 for quite a long time, with many people recommending short positions and questioning the survival of Tesla. I hesitated buying, and then the massive run started around May going from around 35 to about 190 in a few months, a five fold increase (like we had this year). I sat and sat, waiting for a drop. It finally occurred in November based on some FUD that I knew was not true since I owned a MS - don't remember the details, but the price dropped by about a third or more in a just few days.

Here was my big opportunity and I jumped in with half of my Roth IRA, at 130. It was the single largest investment I had ever made on a single stock. My goal was to have it increase by about 50%, the cost of our MS, so, in my thinking, our MS would be free! It hit that target fairly quickly as it crossed the $200 level. Since it was in a Roth, I just let it stay invested and by early 2016 after another drop (this time to 190) I decided to sell the other half of my Roth holdings and buy TSLA, so I was (and am still) 100% TSLA in my Roth. From late 2013 to a year ago, my Roth had grown (with TSLA) at just about the rate of the SP500 (around 8-9% compounded) but with much greater volatility. A bit scary, but it was money we didn't need and it was growing tax free. I had been very happy when TSLA first broke the $300 barrier and then not so happy when it went back down to around $200. However, it always stayed above my combined cost of $153.

A year ago, my total ROTH TSLA investment had a gain of about 25% or about one and a third Teslas (Model S). Today, the gain is over 1300% or fifty Teslas (Model S)! My advice (after 6 3/4 years of owning TSLA), if you maintain your basic conviction about the long term future of Tesla, then HODL!
 
@MTL_HABS1909
if RBC has credited Hock, and not you, that’s weird, and potential mistake or problem. whether your shares are lent or not should not matter. you should see the split share proceeds (corporate action position adjustment) in your account balance ...whether it’s a placeholder until the brokerage receives the allocation from the depository, or the actual shares, your account needs to remain equity neutral with the market...
in other words, when monday opens
you need either
1) the additional 4 shares per old share
2) 4 fake/contra shares, valued at the mkt price of tsla, in lieu of the final shares

3) fake equity (accrual) of the expected value of the 4 extra shares

so that when the mkt price opens at 440 or whatever, you don’t see your net liq value drop off a cliff and acct subject to liquidation or margin (for those using margin or deficient due to other account positions)

i can’t comment as to RBC’s operational procedure, but generally it should be something of the above

for example, IB does #1 for us and canadian customers, even though they won’t receive, as a firm, the allocated split shares for all its customers until DTCC credits them (could be later monday, maybe tuesday, etc). point is, the customers are correct and in balance with the market in the meantime
Actually, it is not weird. I have a cash account. All securities must remain in Type 1 (cash). MTL_HABS probably has a margin account, in which case his shares can be moved to Type 2 (margin) and lent out. If he was unlucky enough to buy phantom shares from manipulators that were never delivered, he has had fake shares in his account since Day 1. So, if all goes well, he'll have 5 real shares for every one fake share, starting Wednesday. I'd love to see a picture of his transaction page on the day that he receives the shares, to see how this crime is accounted for.
 
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Uh, oh, Bloomberg is scrapping the bottom of the barrel for some Tesla-FUD, They are re-hashing the old Martin Tripp story with some fresh spin to paint Elon as the bad guy out to destroy the poor whistle-blower:
When Elon Musk Tried to Destroy a Tesla Whistleblower

The story also brings up the pedo-guy tweets and the SEC investigation and law suit (420 funding secured) as well as "puffing a joint" during live podcast.

I wonder what will they bring up once Neuralink is operational. Will they claim Russian hackers are controlling US elections via neuralink hacks to influence how people vote ? Honestly, its more likely that hackers would hijack brains to farm bitcoins...

As noted at the bottom of that story, it is actually a republication of a 2019 MAR 13 Bloomberg article: What Happened When Elon Musk Set Out to Destroy a Junior Engineer

What you found is the 2019 Bloomberg article being recirculated by Pocket and labeled as an advertisement, which implies that someone paid for the rehash.
 
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Actually, it is not weird. I have a cash account. All securities must remain in Type 1 (cash). MTL_HABS probably has a margin account, in which case his shares can be moved to Type 2 (margin) and lent out. If he was unlucky enough to buy phantom shares from manipulators that were never delivered, he has had fake shares in his account since Day 1. So, if all goes well, he'll have 5 real shares for every one fake share, starting Wednesday. I love to see a picture of his transaction page on the day that he receives the shares, to see how this crime is accounted for.

maybe he’ll share that because id be interested to see as well.

it shouldn’t matter if you buy on margin or with cash, the split should hit both accounts at the same time.

doesn’t matter what shenanigans going on under the hood. i’d inquire/complain and don’t let it slide until you get escalated to someone that explains the reasoning behind the process. you won’t get that from the first 1 or 2 representatives

hell, maybe well even find out some detail that will shed a little more light on what is actually going on
 
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Golf sized EV is ideal for Europe, Golf and smaller are mainstream, normal. Many people won't buy a Model 3 or bigger car. It's too big to be desirable as it's not practical.

That's blocking out most of a large market (roughly 15 million comapred to 17 million in the USA but cars/vehicle definitions vary).

Model 3 and larger can only address a niche even if really cheap.

"current UK norm for parking spaces is 2.4 metres wide by 4.8 metres" - various sources

Note that that is a 'norm', not a minimum, there are plenty of smaller spaces. These are designed spaces, not the kind you get in crowded streets where one car parks between two others. Sometimes there isn't room to step between vehicles when you cross the street. In these circumstances, having a long car means you really struggle to park on your own street, while short cars find it much easier.

USA: 17.24.050 Parking facility layout and dimensions.
"The minimum size of a standard parking space shall be nine feet wide and eighteen feet long"

2.7432m USA vs 2.4m UK
5.4864m USA vs 4.8m UK

Model 3 is 4,694 mm L x 1,849 mm W x 1,443 mm H

Width gap: 2.4m - 1.85m is 21.65 inches
Length gap: 0.1m is 39 inches

Other countries can have far less space in cities.
View attachment 582005


"Each vehicle in Tesla’s lineup displaces a gas vehicle that burns more carbon than the gas hatchbacks displaced by EV hatchbacks." - Polo/Golf/smaller hatchbacks do long distances. They are usually people's only car, often just one per family. They are chosen in preference due to their size, economy and other attributes. They are used on family holidays to UK, Ireland and mainland Europe and on long commutes.

What is normal in North America is not normal elsewhere. When locals are saying smaller Teslas are required in their markets, I urge you to keep an open mind.

about 2:30 (single lane) 7:10 (cyclist)
town parking, shows typical terraced housing

It is easy to overstate the European desire for small cars. The area I live in has lots of tradesmen with vans, often sprinters or transits. Other areas I know most households have multiple vehicles, often one is a SUV and another a about town runabout. Lots depends on the availability of off-street parking, suburban areas typically have a garage with off street parking for 1 or 2 cars. The area I live in, many of the front gardens have been paved over for hard standing for 1 or 2 cars. There are lots of mid to large size BMW, MB, Audi and equivalents on the roads around here.

Where my wife used to live in London, where there are rows of terraced flats there was enough parking for one small car between two dwellings (only on street). Most people there obviously do not have cars. Bus, train and tube links were very good so that is what people used, with COVID-19 restrictions public transport is nowhere near as convenient now. Probably a prime area for robotaxi.
 
maybe he’ll share that because id be interested to see as well.

it shouldn’t matter if you buy on margin or with cash, the split should hit both accounts at the same time.

doesn’t matter what shenanigans going on under the hood. i’d inquire/complain and don’t let it slide until you get escalated to someone that explains the reasoning behind the process. you won’t get that from the first 1 or 2 representatives

hell, maybe well even find out some detail that will shed a little more light on what is actually going on
 
Vanguard - brokerage account shows post split share numbers and option contracts but price not updated ( so my account is worth 5 times more with fake money)

Yeah, it was quite a shock to wake up just just rich, but super-rich. I guess I'm thankful they did did things in that order - it'd be scary to have them reduce the price first, and then multiple the shares.
 
Actually, it is not weird. I have a cash account. All securities must remain in Type 1 (cash). MTL_HABS probably has a margin account, in which case his shares can be moved to Type 2 (margin) and lent out. If he was unlucky enough to buy phantom shares from manipulators that were never delivered, he has had fake shares in his account since Day 1. So, if all goes well, he'll have 5 real shares for every one fake share, starting Wednesday. I'd love to see a picture of his transaction page on the day that he receives the shares, to see how this crime is accounted for.

How do you even tell if you have “fake” shares though. And wouldn’t the transaction page just show my share count increasing to 5x what I currently have?

P.S: I do have a margin account, but I’ve never actually used margin.
 
I'm not following you. Are you saying ICE-car dealers will switch to selling BEVs? That seems unlikely because dealers make most of their income from ICE-car service, not sales, and there is no equivalent income stream for BEVs.

Dealers might demand manufacturers to make what their customers want. The dealers still have millions of ICE cars to service for a few years while they resize their businesses. Auto manufacturers may eventually want to move to online sales but the pandemic has already given them incentive to move that way. Dealer are going that way. Painful but limited choice really.

It all depends on the consumer. If they want EVs then the dealers will try to force the manufacturers to provide a product to sell or lose everything.

If I were a dealer, I would be looking for a possibility to convert my facility (maybe 3 yrs out) to a support facility for autonomous taxis - charging, maintenance, cleaning, storage etc. Go the mobility as a service route. Not many choices. Sell some EV and support robotaxis.

Tesla will be able to pick up failing dealership facilities at great locations and very favorable prices during this dealer consolidation IMO.

In other news, just watched the Friday "Autoline Daily". Corvette engineers going to the EV divisions. A LOT of time was related to EV related topics or autonomous driving developments. Seems like they see the writing on the wall.

 
There is a neat free App called Night Sky that shows all the floating around in space.
Thanks for posting this, including the chart. In many ways the price action of mid 2013 is very similar to that of 2020. We took delivery of our MS is February of 2013 (number 43XX) and I had been looking at TSLA for some time. It had been stuck in a trading range of 30 to 40 for quite a long time, with many people recommending short positions and questioning the survival of Tesla. I hesitated buying, and then the massive run started around May going from around 35 to about 190 in a few months, a five fold increase (like we had this year). I sat and sat, waiting for a drop. It finally occurred in November based on some FUD that I knew was not true since I owned a MS - don't remember the details, but the price dropped by about a third or more in a just few days.

Here was my big opportunity and I jumped in with half of my Roth IRA, at 130. It was the single largest investment I had ever made on a single stock. My goal was to have it increase by about 50%, the cost of our MS, so, in my thinking, our MS would be free! It hit that target fairly quickly as it crossed the $200 level. Since it was in a Roth, I just let it stay invested and by early 2016 after another drop (this time to 190) I decided to sell the other half of my Roth holdings and buy TSLA, so I was (and am still) 100% TSLA in my Roth. From late 2013 to a year ago, my Roth had grown (with TSLA) at just about the rate of the SP500 (around 8-9% compounded) but with much greater volatility. A bit scary, but it was money we didn't need and it was growing tax free. I had been very happy when TSLA first broke the $300 barrier and then not so happy when it went back down to around $200. However, it always stayed above my combined cost of $153.

A year ago, my total ROTH TSLA investment had a gain of about 25% or about one and a third Teslas (Model S). Today, the gain is over 1300% or fifty Teslas (Model S)! My advice (after 6 3/4 years of owning TSLA), if you maintain your basic conviction about the long term future of Tesla, then HODL!
@astrotoy, looks like we began posting on TMC on the same month, January 2013. I remember those dips to 130 and 190 well, I sold all my holdings at near the bottom of those drops only to buy back in months later at much higher prices with less shares. It was not my loss of conviction for Tesla that made me sell, it was giving far to much credit to those trying to destroy Tesla. If I had kept long I would have twice the number of shares I now have. In 2013 Tesla was producing one model at one plant, and if that model was a flop for whatever reason, a major recall or if it had issues with the battery, bankwuptzy was a very real possibility. Today the coin has flipped and all ICE manufacturers face the real possibility of bankwuptzy. Tesla can no longer be destroyed and can only prosper, ironically in part due to inactivity and incompetance of the same groups that were trying to destroy Telsa. Let's call that karma.
 
"it shouldn’t matter if you buy on margin or with cash, the split should hit both accounts at the same time." Of course it shouldn't matter.
We are not talking about buying with cash or margin. We are talking about the account (cash or margin) that shares are held in. If shares are held in a cash account, they can't be lent. If shares are held in a margin account, they can be lent.
 
I have RBC accounts and they are showing deposit of the dividend shares. I'm going to guess that your shares have been lent out. RBC needs the stock to start trading so they can borrow or outright purchase the shares in the open market on Monday and deliver by September 2. The reason it is the 2nd, is settlement is T+2. In other words, you have an IOU out against RBC. I'd be complaining about that, if I were you. IMO, RBC has aided and abetted manipulative short sellers who need the stock to start trading in order to deliver the dividend to you. BS. You want them on the pay date. IMO, this is evidence of what some us have been talking about: I.e., the inability of the shorts to find enough shares to deliver on the due date, because of the enormous amount of phantom shares.

This may also be that one of you is in Quebec and the other is not. RBC’s tech infrastructure varies between Quebec and rest of country plus there would be additional back end reporting requirements in Quebec as well.

When I moved across Canada I had to actually set up new chequing accounts and have them be linked in their back end systems to be able to even see them on the same profile online. At the time I couldn’t even access cash real time in the accounts if it was past 5EST, even if it was still business hours in PST. All with the same bank.
 
It will be extremely difficult for competition to catch up with Tesla, They design their value added components from Atom level and up versus competition rely on suppliers, all other automakers are basically assembler and they have no control over software design all semiconductor in cars.

Forget all that. I am still wondering how legacy will get the batteries they need and new start ups surviving the warranty period and demand problems due to no service centers.