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Elon said their production cost of their base Model 3 is <$38k in his autonomy day presentation.

Also, in the investor call for cap raise he said that their production cost for base Model 3 is about $38k.
His autonomy day presentation was talking about some future million-mile autonomous taxi, which is NOT the base model 3 (it does not have a million mile battery pack for one thing). What he said at that presentation was:
Elon Musk said:
A custom-made robotaxi capable of running about a million miles using a single battery pack, with all the sensors and computing power for full autonomy, should cost less than $38,000 to produce.

I am unable to find a reliable source for the content of the investor call for the cap raise. I guess you were on the call? Maybe you are mis-remembering what was said like you did for the autonomy day statement. Can you provide an audio recording or transcript?

On the Feb 28 conference call for the $35k model 3 announcement he did say this about the base model 3 cost:
Elon Musk said:
It was it's excruciatingly difficult to make this car for $35,000 and still be financially sustainable hence the unfortunate need to reduce headcount.
which implies a production cost of less than $38k after the reduction in force. As far as I know, all actual sales of the base model 3 took place after the RIF.
 
I thought it was only necessary that the base-price meet the minimum pricing, and if that is true then you can go ahead and buy the various options (like long range battery and dual motor) and still be eligible for the rebate. Is that wrong? Must you actually buy the base model with an actual price below the threshold? I'm just asking because I thought I'd previously read (on TMC) that the law was written that way.

My understanding is that Canadians are eligible for the $5k rebate on the SR+ and can option the selling price up to $55K. The $45K upper threshold was waved by the Government soon after Tesla tweaked the base model with the so-called "SR-" edition.

That Model lasted about a day before the Gov't thought better and changed the eligibility requirements. Now Tesla can sell the SR+ w/o gaming a slanted set of rules.

Still, an AWD/LR/P won't be eligible, nor will any S or X come with the rebate. However I'm encouraged that the 7-seat Model Y may be designated as eligible for the rebate at up to $60K list price. This 7-seat Y SR+ could be the best seller in Canada, likely followed closely by the LR AWD 7-seater (lotta hockey mom's around here). ;)

Cheers!
 
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How many motors at what weight are you calculating? Because I'd think your number is about double.

This source says Model S motor+ inverter are 350lbs https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-the-Tesla-Model-S-motor-weigh
This one says 295 lbs for rear drive unit and inverter Tesla Model S Drive Unit - Complete - Ready to Run, EV West - Electric Vehicle Parts, Components, EVSE Charging Stations, Electric Car Conversion Kits
I multiplied 350 by 4 and round up to 1500.
 
Actually i still did not make myself clear. Q1 was bad not because of low delivery like some people focused on, but the combination low delivery, no production growth and low ASP/margin of 3 and low delivery, low production and low ASP/margin of S/X.

For 3, delivery was not a major problem, the main negative effect to financials are just cash flow(too many cars in transition). Production growth is because of Panasonic slow corporate culture(compared to tesla). While we can sustain short term effect by holding, in the long term, tesla has to control the cell production to complete the real vertical integration. We can't imagine the blood of your production: cell, is out of control like this for the next phase of hyper growth. Low ASP/margin is the part I have serious problems with. On ASP tesla has direct control and it completely botched it in Q1. Some people claims the current price is their long time goal. Well, you do not sell laptop cheap in the 90s. You have to accumulate enough profit and reach enough production growth to finally decrease your price. You do not sell cheap when there is no production growth nor enough profit.

For S/X, delivery by itself was not a problem. There was a seasonal effect/tax credit cliff. They should start upgrading S/X at the beginning of Q1 so they won't have to concede the demand narrative to FUD. Well, if you say they had no immediate plan to upgrade S/X, then is it exactly the definition of bad planning? Low ASP was similar to 3 that exposed their lack of solid understanding of demand elasticity. I think some people on this message board have much better understand than the pricing/financing people at tesla. Because they claimed tesla could easily calculate the demand elasticity by using the data. Well, apparently, tesla either did not or could not.

I always admire the pace of innovation rooted in tesla culture and it is the foundation of my investment thesis. But you really need some experienced hands in the finance department. What I see is clear financial planning/execution failure. Back in December when the SP was $350+, tesla could have sell couple billion convertible bonds. Because let's be realistic, you need money to fund growth. Your free cash flow is not enough.(If it is enough at this stage, you grow to slowly)

BTW, I am really happy to see the first price increase of m3 today. If Elon believe FSD is near, you have to price your products according to it.




Ofcourse hindsight is 20/20 and all problems can be blamed on bad planning (I've seen teams do it in multiple companies over decades).


They did some unwinding of the wave in Q1 unwittingly, but this needs to be a commitment and they need to continue to work on it. For example in June they still need to continue sending cars to EU/China. If they don't do that, the wave will be back.
Ofcourse hindsight is 20/20 and all problems can be blamed on bad planning (I've seen teams do it in multiple companies over decades).


They did some unwinding of the wave in Q1 unwittingly, but this needs to be a commitment and they need to continue to work on it. For example in June they still need to continue sending cars to EU/China. If they don't do that, the wave will be back.
 
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Back in December when the SP was $350+, tesla could have sell couple billion convertible bonds. Because let's be realistic, you need money to fund growth. Your free cash flow is not enough.(If it is enough at this stage, you grow to slowly)

If you link to a comment you made to this effect last December, I have no doubt EVNow will apologise for his/her ‘hindsight 20/20’ comment.
 
BTW, I am really happy to see the first price increase of m3 today. If Elon believe FSD is near, you have to price your products according to it.

To me FSD is not determined by Elon if it's near or not. It's determined by the people who will put FSD to the test after it's released. Once Tesla decides to flip the switch, there will be more miles driven on FSD mode in the first 24 hours than Waymo's entire existence. The miles driven will be more varied than Waymo's and will be monitored by unpaid morons. This is actually the scary part, and also why Tesla is slowly testing the waters. I wouldn't be surprised if FSD gets delayed again due to this.
 
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If you link to a comment you made to this effect last December, I have no doubt EVNow will apologise for his/her ‘hindsight 20/20’ comment.

No need to apologize even if I could claim "I said so". But that is not the point because EVnow and I am not professional financial people and we do not see the numbers they can see inside tesla. On Dec 20, can we see the number of inventory cars like they do? It's like watching sports. We know a professional could do certain things. If they could not and missed by a lot, we obviously can say to him: You missed it and it was on you.

And my main blame is actually on their financial "illiteracy", forecast is probably only a distant second.

Just hope they change their pricing practice.
 
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Tesla hasn't issued any VINs for the refreshed S/X and it has been 3 weeks since the announcement. We are also half way through Q2 at this point. If there are still no VINs 2 weeks from now, the Q2 guidance will be missed badly.
I know very little, but could this be a regulatory issue? The new models aren't updated on fueleconomy.gov yet. Possible they have hundreds built but unable to register yet?
 
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Do you have some numbers to support this? I'm just guessing here on the electric parts and some other numbers:

diesel engine 3000 lbs
transmission 700 lbs
300gall fuel 2000 lbs
- electric motor + inverter -1500lbs

that is 4200 lbs for the battery

current battery is at ~243Wh/kg

4200 lbs = 1900kg
243*1900/1000 = 462 kWh battery capacity doesn't seem enough for a semi trailer.

Diesel truck:
average 18-wheeler gets 5.9 mpg,
300 gallon x 5.9 = 1770 miles

Electric truck
Model S 100D would get 40-42mpg on diesel at those speeds (~7 times less consumption than truck). Range might reach 350 miles on a 100kWh battery.
That is 350 miles * 462kWh / 100kWh / 7 = 231 miles
Don’t forget each of the 500lb differentials, exhaust system, & fuel system. I would say it’s more like 7000lbs for the battery to keep the cab weight the same. I suspect the 500 mile Tesla semi is slightly heavier than a diesel truck and the 300 mile version is slightly lighter. Fact #620: April 26, 2010 Class 8 Truck Tractor Weight by Component
http://electracold.com/CAT.pdf
 
As I understand, Semi team took motors from Model 3 motor production line, not Model S motors.

Yep, Model 3 motor core and inverter tech with a custom drive unit/ housing. Model 3 drive unit weighs less than 200 lbs. Maybe 350 per semi drive unit ×4, minus 400 pounds or so per differential removed. Net 1,000 pounds if starting from 2WD. Also drop the weight of a driveshaft.

Then drop the extra steel mass since there isn't an engine trying to pretzel the frame.
 
Not really surprising. S/X are really too large a car for most of Europe. Some (no idea what percentage) were purchased because S/X was all that was available. I don't see this as a particularly big issue because it was expected. Also they are being refreshed so the U.S. ones will be shipped first. It will likely sort it self out over the year.


Norway isn't most of Europe.

And the bigger Model X is doing much better than Model S in Norway.
 
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Seems Tesla just increased Model 3 price by $400 in the US.

Not sure in other markets.

Used to be $39,500, now $39,900.
400 is not a lot, but raising price seems a little good sign.
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