Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[jerry33]

thats great. in the meantime there are a whole bunch of cars that make parking in tight spaces easier than a tesla / they already HAVE the hardware, seems like an easy feature to add...

Is it really easier though? The Leaf has 360 view and it's a pain to park in tight places compared to the S.

 

[ALLZAP]

Hard for even MAGA to support made In Mexico car ...

I'm a huge MAGA guy, But I've been driving EV's since 2011.

 

[woodisgood]

MIC stays in China. dumbass

(Name calling is not fun for sure )

Surely you realized my post was tongue in cheek.

I kid you not I had this discussion with a family friend the other day who falls in the MAGA camp. His parsing of all the news around GF3 was that Tesla was moving [all] Model 3 manufacturing overseas in order to improve margins and be profitable.

 

[pnungesser]

Perception ..
If other EV's don't catch fire ... EV's are safe.
If other EV's catch fire ... Tesla is the superior product.

Speaking of fires, my wife and I stopped at a local Dollar General to pick up some birthday cards a couple of hours ago. Going in I noticed that the ice storage chest had burned. I asked a store employee how an ice machine could catch fire. He said it didn't, but that a truck parked there apparently had a gas leak and went up in flames and burned the ice storage. Fortunately the propane storage next to the ice did not go up, but the plastic on the cylinders did melt. Of course, I I'm not telling you anything because the story must have been on/in CNBC, the NYT's and all of the other major outlets today.

 

[jhm]

Question, Ford is position the Mach-E to compete most directly with which Tesla model?

 

[CarlK]

All this Ford talk is making me nauseous. When are we going to start talking Cybertruck again??

I got a feeling this Ford thing was put together in a hurry to counter Tesla's Cybertruck unveiling. Ford is far from ready for an announcement otherwise. It does seem to work here.

 

[powertoold]

I got a feeling this Ford thing was put together in a hurry to counter Tesla's Cybertruck unveiling. Ford is far from ready for an announcement otherwise. It does seem to work here.

It would have been better to announce soon after the cybertruck. Tesla will have the last laugh.

 

[SteveG3]

Motor Trend will announce their Car of the Year winner tonight.

The Model 3 is a finalist along with the Corvette, and the Kia Soul.

For those not particularly familiar with US car awards, my sense is that most people would consider Motor Trend the most notable of the awards here.

fwiw, apparently they also have a Person of the Year Award... who knows.

busy week, lols

 

[floydboy]

For $60k? I also think it's going to be challenging, but....
the thing is that the starting price is $43,895 - $7,500 (US credits) = $36,395 (for the select model). Obviously that comes with a bit lower range (230 vs 250mi) than the model 3, but it's a bit cheaper and significantly roomier.

Also if you pre-order the Mach-e Premium with extended battery, that sets you back $55,600 - $7,500 = $48,100. That's exactly in line with the Model Y long range model (in price and range). You can also order this without the extended battery and have a CUV for $43,100.

It's hard not to say that at least in range and pricing it's been positioned to be a direct competitor to the model Y and in some cases the model 3.



Production of the Mach-e First / Premium editions will start late 2020, just like the Model Y. Only the select edition and more sportier versions will be pushed out to 2021.

Model Y is no longer scheduled for late 2020. It's been moved up.

 

[kengchang]

I got a feeling this Ford thing was put together in a hurry to counter Tesla's Cybertruck unveiling. Ford is far from ready for an announcement otherwise. It does seem to work here.

That dance was cringey AF, just saying.....

 

[jerry33]

Question, Ford is position the Mach-E to compete most directly with which Tesla model?

Six year old Model 3. (Of course you'll have to wait for that one).

 

[woodisgood]

I got a feeling this Ford thing was put together in a hurry to counter Tesla's Cybertruck unveiling. Ford is far from ready for an announcement otherwise.

I agree with that but to be fair Tesla did hit first, with Elon going hard after their prized cash cow in the Cybertruck lead up. So they just lashed out at Y and Elon as best as they could pre-emptively. Truth is they’re obviously scared, and hoping beyond hope this thing will be a weirdmobile.

Elon gave them a pat pat on the head last night on Twitter.

 

[Thekiwi]

I got a feeling this Ford thing was put together in a hurry to counter Tesla's Cybertruck unveiling. Ford is far from ready for an announcement otherwise. It does seem to work here.

It possibly was timed to coincide with the current number one movie in theatres: Ford vs. Ferrari.

It was actually a pretty good movie, but it is really about Carroll Shelby and Ken Miles, and for the most part makes Ford management look like a bunch of dickheads.

 

[elasalle]

That the Mach-E might be price comparable to the Model Y because of the rebate highlights how poorly designed the law was. It is benefiting a company that drug it's heels on moving into EVs and now the companies that pushed early and actually created the market (Nissan, Tesla, GM) are being punished.

The credit should have been for the first X number of EVs of ANY type sold.

Given, that volume production is in 2021 and elections are in Nov 2020, a lot could happen .. ~ cheers!!

 

[Swampgator]

Motor Trend will announce their Car of the Year winner tonight.

The Model 3 is a finalist along with the Corvette, and the Kia Soul.

For those not particularly familiar with US car awards, my sense is that most people would consider Motor Trend the most notable of the awards here.

fwiw, apparently they also have a Person of the Year Award... who knows.

busy week, lols

I'm going to predict the Chevy for the win......and ad dollars!

 

[Rashomon]

The survival of these companies depends on their ability to reliably manufacture multiple classes of compelling EVs in large numbers within the next couple of years. Most of them don't realise it, and expect a linear, very gradual increase in demand for EVs that should take a minimum of 10 years. They are wrong.

I think of this in two ways. One is the idea of a preference cascade, where popular opinions flip very quickly. I think that is likely on EVs in the 2023-2024 time frame, when decreasing purchase prices, charging network build-out, more model availability, and lower operating costs lead to the realization that not buying an EV may be foolish.

The second is just the classic S-curve for a new product category. We’re still clearly in early adopter territory, and a year or four from the sharp turn-up when EVs become mainstream products. From either point of view, it’s likely the next couple of years is going to be good for Tesla and tough for some mainstream manufacturers who are going to see rapid write-offs in tooling, facilities and obsolete products. Not all will survive. But it’s no guarantee Tesla will dominate. That will require superb execution over the next five years.

 

[izemize]

Model Y is targeted 1k/week by mid year. Note that is probably full production volume for Mach-E.

Model Y is no longer scheduled for late 2020. It's been moved up.

Yes, Tesla released this info in an investor update. But when you go to the model Y order page (just like probably most potential customers would do) there is still the following next to the price: "Production is expected to begin late next year"
If this is outdated, they should fix it ASAP.

 

[SteveG3]

Question, Ford is position the Mach-E to compete most directly with which Tesla model?

I think it's clearly the Model Y, and I think that was smart on Ford's part. Elon has said publicly more than once, and quite clearly (to clearly for my liking) that the Model Y will cost about the same to build as the 3, but will be priced higher due to the pricing structure of CUVs vs sedans of the market as a whole.

Given Tesla's approach, if Ford can build the Mach E as a CUV at basically same cost as a sedan, if gives them a few $k in extra revenue per vehicle to cover their costs... costs that are almost certainly higher than Tesla's with the Y (given the 25% bigger battery for Ford to come to the neighborhood of the Y's specs, among several inherent cost disadvantages for Ford).

 

[SteveG3]

I'm going to predict the Chevy for the win......and ad dollars!

that's a plus the Chevy does offer, but, I don't think it's one that will be highlighted at tonight's event, even if the Corvette does win.

jokes aside, as I'm sure just about everyone here is well aware, a Tesla winning this Motor Trend award is not an unprecedented event.

 

[Nocturnal]

I think of this in two ways. One is the idea of a preference cascade, where popular opinions flip very quickly. I think that is likely on EVs in the 2023-2024 time frame, when decreasing purchase prices, charging network build-out, more model availability, and lower operating costs lead to the realization that not buying an EV may be foolish.

The second is just the classic S-curve for a new product category. We’re still clearly in early adopter territory, and a year or four from the sharp turn-up when EVs become mainstream products. From either point of view, it’s likely the next couple of years is going to be good for Tesla and tough for some mainstream manufacturers who are going to see rapid write-offs in tooling, facilities and obsolete products. Not all will survive. But it’s no guarantee Tesla will dominate. That will require superb execution over the next five years.

I think we are just past or close to passing the early adopter phase. It's hard to compare something like a car to a phone in terms of adoption. It's easy to go out and grab a phone, but a car is a major purchase that most people do pretty rarely.