Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Bullish_Bear]

It's not really a price cut if it is because of a subsidy. It still costs the same but now the government is directly paying for a portion of it.

(Yes I understand that they did lower the price some as well as mark it down for the amount of the subsidy.)

subsidy here does not go to Tesla's pocket. It is sales tax exemption for final customers. So your point is not the case.

 

[Drumheller]

If we don't get it to 420,069 posts, you are all fired.

You guys are getting paid?

 

[Bullish_Bear]

You guys are getting paid?

yes, in some sense. the stock market really pays us a lot

 

[EVNow]

Hmmm.. it seems Iranians were not fond of him either
Twitter

Hardly the point.

Its equivalent to Iran assassinating CIA director / Joint Chief of Staff. Would it matter whether they are popular with avg Americans ?

ps : Trending on twitter : World War 3.

 

[ZeApelido]

Warning, don't read the comments.

JFC I screwed up

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I guess we'll find out on Friday how many deliveries Tesla made in Q4.

 

[MP3Mike]

subsidy here does not go to Tesla's pocket. It is sales tax exemption for final customers. So your point is not the case.

Somehow I thought this subsidy was separate from the tax exemption, But even if that is the case the tax didn't go in Tesla's pocket either. So again it isn't a price cut.

Though there does seem to be about a 10% price cut in addition to the subsidy. So I guess the 10% rumor we heard earlier was true...

 

[JustMe]

subsidy here does not go to Tesla's pocket. It is sales tax exemption for final customers. So your point is not the case.

Info on the price cut from Bloomberg:

“The price was lowered to 323,800 yuan ($46,500) from 355,800 yuan. After subsidies from the Chinese government, prices start from 299,050 yuan, Tesla’s website showed.”
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
So the purchase price is below the psychological threshold of 300k RMB.

As far as I know, this is the first departure of Tesla’s policy of selling their cars for the same price worldwide - plus taxes/shipping/duty.

I expect this will rocket the Model 3 to the top of the market in China.

 

[Jack6591]

Were my emotional quotient higher, my F5 key would still be working.

 

[woodisgood]

Not sure if I should deleverage and sell my calls tomorrow. My shares are fine the way they are, but holding calls right now seems pretty dicey. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think TSLA has ever popped on any P&D reports throughout it's history? It's only ever remained level, or dropped sharply?

This may be true, but I think we're in a very exuberant run for Tesla and the SP would react positively to meeting guidance squarely vs. barely.

That all being said, macro headwinds created by the possibility of war...not good at all. Just hope this doesn't somehow develop into a black swan event, but folks have been looking for and expecting a drastic correction to the markets. This may be the catalyst, and I think it would take some time for the market to appreciate the relative immunity of Tesla and other renewable energy stocks. Hopefully all a nothing-burger, but I'm expecting an overreaction tomorrow. Excuse me for being a pessimist, but the prospect of war that literally came out of left field is not a great feeling.

 

[mongo]

As far as I know, this is the first departure of Tesla’s policy of selling their cars for the same price worldwide - plus taxes/shipping/duty.

It's the first time they've sold a car that wasn't (originally) made in Fremont.

 

[Curt Renz]

It's a brave new world out there and it's no longer a war crime if you first designate the target as a terrorist. I don't support this kind of strange logic but that's where we are at.

It even occurred in World War II at the command of allied leaders. FDR is believed to have ordered the 1943 assassination of Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, although there is no written proof. At least Navy Secretary Knox appears to have been involved. US Navy Admirals Nimitz and Halsey wanted such an order, so they would not be accused of a war crime. In any event, the admirals ordered Army Air Force flyers to shoot down Yamamoto's plane. Of course at the 1945-46 Nuremberg war crimes trials of German officials, superior orders were not considered to be acceptable excuses.

The 1942 assassination of German SS General Heydrich by British trained Czech partisans flown to near Prague by the British resulted in horrendous retaliations. Such a possibility may become a great concern in the the current case: Operation Anthropoid - Wikipedia

I realize this an investment thread, but the ramifications could show up in the stock market.

 

[M3Rider]

Hardly the point.

Its equivalent to Iran assassinating CIA director / Joint Chief of Staff. Would it matter whether they are popular with avg Americans ?

ps : Trending on twitter : World War 3.

If he gave an order to shoot up American students in the past, soldiers might not appreciate risking their ass for him.

There's Vietnam war documentary on Netflix; in the later years U.S. soldiers were killing a bunch of their own superior officers, who would tell them to go do some stuff(and risk getting killed in the process), since by then everybody understood it was pointless.

Not a direct parallel to today of course, with so many possibilities of a remote control.

 

[printf42]

Somehow I thought this subsidy was separate from the tax exemption, But even if that is the case the tax didn't go in Tesla's pocket either. So again it isn't a price cut.

Though there does seem to be about a 10% price cut in addition to the subsidy. So I guess the 10% rumor we heard earlier was true...

The subsidy is separate from the tax exemption.
The price was 355k RMB with up to 52k sales tax exemption (which applies to both MIC and imported cars).
Now the price is 323.8k, then private buyer can apply for 24.75k subsidies for MIC cars only. Which effectively brings the price down to 299k. And, the 52k purchase tax examinations still applies.

So Tesla did lower the purchase price to 323.8k, which is a 8.8% discount from reservation prices.

I can almost hear competitors trembling, not only EVs, any car, period.

 

[Fact Checking]

Though there does seem to be about a 10% price cut in addition to the subsidy. So I guess the 10% rumor we heard earlier was true...

Bloomberg reported a 20% price cut rumor, without any context offered, which we now know was false.

 

[Mike Smith]

https://electrek.co/2020/01/02/did-...-that-ev-charging-is-too-difficult-for-women/

I think we can strike Nissan off our list of viable competitors..

 

[Fact Checking]

So the purchase price is below the psychological threshold of 300k RMB.

As far as I know, this is the first departure of Tesla’s policy of selling their cars for the same price worldwide - plus taxes/shipping/duty.

There's no departure, they are selling their cars for the same price: cost of making them plus ~25% margins, plus taxes/shipping/duty.

It's just that the Shanghai Gigafactory has a different cost of making them.

Note: 299,000¥ is ~$43k, about $4k above the $39k entry price of the SR+ in the U.S. - so the prices are actually pretty close.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

This may be true, but I think we're in a very exuberant run for Tesla and the SP would react positively to meeting guidance squarely vs. barely.

That all being said, macro headwinds created by the possibility of war...not good at all. Just hope this doesn't somehow develop into a black swan event, but folks have been looking for and expecting a drastic correction to the markets. This may be the catalyst, and I think it would take some time for the market to appreciate the relative immunity of Tesla and other renewable energy stocks. Hopefully all a nothing-burger, but I'm expecting an overreaction tomorrow. Excuse me for being a pessimist, but the prospect of war that literally came out of left field is not a great feeling.

I remember when I wasn't an investor. Back then war was scary because you know people fighting and killing each other and stuff. Now war is scary because I'm worried about the implications for my portfolio. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Capitalism makes capitalists of us all, I guess.

 

[sundaymorning]

The subsidy is separate from the tax exemption.
The price was 355k RMB with up to 52k sales tax exemption (which applies to both MIC and imported cars).
Now the price is 323.8k, then private buyer can apply for 24.75k subsidies for MIC cars only. Which effectively brings the price down to 299k. And, the 52k purchase tax examinations still applies.

So Tesla did lower the purchase price to 323.8k, which is a 8.8% discount from reservation prices.

I can almost hear competitors trembling, not only EVs, any car, period.

It's a marketing strategy. Oldest trick in the book, mark up then mark down. They were always intending on the 20% lower price. Free advertising

Also if they revealed that price last year, Chinese would have held off buying new Teslas in Q4 and wait for a few days in Q1.

Here’s the thing about the timing of this price cut, if Elon knew that Q1 2020 wont be as good, wouldn’t it make more sense to cut prices after Q1? Say in Q3 when Tesla is in a better place financially? We have Model Y prep coming up, won’t we need as much powder as possible to ramp Model Y and to spiff up Q1?

On the other hand, we can argue that Tesla May have found a way to lower the price of Model 3 through further efficiencies and decided to pass on the savings to customers now as a PR move, and to put pressure on competitors.

 

[EVNow]

If he gave an order to shoot up American students in the past, soldiers might not appreciate risking their ass for him.

Beware, there is a ton of disinformation campaign going on right now.

Basic fact : US just started a war with Iran. Assassinating a general (that too the most senior one) of another country is an act of war - infact its a war crime.

Yashar Ali on Twitter