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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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OK, confession time - I sold 94 shares just before close yesterday for $857.50 - and felt pretty smug about it... On the plus side, they had a cost-basis of $750 and it's my trading account, so I realised $10k in extra cash.

Plus that Friday $875 call I sold on Monday looks a bit dodgy, but there's a lot of water can go under the bridge between now and Friday close, for better or worse o_O

I'll be honest that with $TSLA going up most of the time, the HODL shares are a bit dull, what's another $50k every other day, booooring! Having a play account is fun and I'm enjoying the day-trading, short options experience.

Not an advice.
Unless you needed the cash or traded in a tax advantage account, you cost yourself trading those shares. I’m only selling shortish term calls at this point.

will be interesting to see how this reacts in 10 minutes.
 
Joefee

Don’t get depressed
This is the start of a multi year run
Steep at least for the next 3 to 6 mths , then AMZN like
Take a look a the big ones from history

I think we’re already trading in the amazon Apple level (I feel like Wall Street is no longer valuing us as a car company alone), but you’re right about it being a psychological level. The media attention around that number will be huge.

Since TSLA is often compared to AMZN:

It may be a dump question, but do i get this right, that Amazon had 3 Stock Splits before the year 2000, with 2-1, 3-1 and 2-1 ratios?

Doesn't that mean, that without that splits, the AMZN Stock, for a Stockholder, who bought in 1998, the Stock is not 2.155$ worth for him/her, but valuated like 12x, so at 25.860$?

If that is right, then TSLA is far from close to todays Amazon Stock prices and TSLA even at 1000$ is a damn good buy, if you HODL for 10 years. I mean we don't even had a split with TSLA.

Maybe this year? :rolleyes:
 
Latest model run using prices from yesterday's close and the latest open interest data after yesterday's trading.

Looks like a lot of calls were bought indicating increased hedge need. I suspect 4 figures is on the cards today.

Screenshot_20200219-071007.png


*To be sure, puts were bought too indicating an increased number in the -100 scenario.
 
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I kind of don’t want the stock price to go up too fast. I would be fine with 2% a day. I just don’t want to hear from friends and family everyday to sell my stock cause to them it will look like a bubble. Although, I think this latest price rally is showing them it’s not a bubble and TSLA is finding its new price discovery level.

I think every meal-time discussion with my father-in-law for the last 4 years centred around him telling me the latest bad things he'd read about Tesla (usually from The Economist), followed up with a "if I were you then I'd sell those shares while you can".

Don't see them that often as they're living in Denmark these days, but they were down in Brussels last week and this time it was "thank god you didn't follow my advice", quite the turn-around!

Others say "I'd sell and take the profits if it was me", I respond, "That's because you have no idea what Tesla is actually doing or the state of the industries they're disrupting".
 
Actually it makes no sense. Elon has said that they will come into an area build out support, i.e. Service Centers, Superchargers, etc., while importing vehicles and then if it shows there is enough demand they will then consider building a Gigafactory there.

Though I guess if Brazil went to Tesla with an offer so rich that Tesla couldn't refuse it might make sense. But I doubt that would happen.

In theory if early talks are happening it would probably take 2 years before any cars are produced. That is plenty of time to build Superchargers and Service Centres.

But if it's a good idea now? No idea. I'm leaving that decision to Elon.
 
Re the GINI map, all I can say is that it appears suspect. India? Indonesia? As low income inequality? I've worked in both, traveled in Brazil and I have to say India was about the worst inequality I've ever seen. Bangladesh might give it a run for the money. Malaysia as an issue? Much less so than Indonesia. Anyhow, just observations.

I could not see anyone building out a billion dollar facility in Brazil right now. Driving a lux car marks you for extortion and kidnapping so you have very limited areas to drive. Many people have off duty cops as "security" guards doing the driving, etc.
 
The same could be said about China re: risking the government taking over or at least sabotaging your operations if you fall out of favour.

Investments are calculated risks.



The GDP per capita in Mexico is less than Brazil, and Tesla has built out plenty there. Same with China, just on a larger scale.

GDP per capita is a pretty terrible measure. The actual measure of interest is disposable income brackets - how big each bracket is relative to how likely a certain amount of disposable income is to translate to a Tesla sale. The distribution of income is relative to the GINI scale (income (in)equality), while cost of living varies from location to location.

Here's a GINI index map. High income inequality (red) helps Tesla in poor countries but slightly hurts it in wealthy countries. Note Brazil.

2014_Gini_Index_World_Map%2C_income_inequality_distribution_by_country_per_World_Bank.svg


Brazil is the world's sixth-highest population country (212,6M = 64% of the US, 45% more than Russia, 65% more than Mexico), and is the world's 5th largest auto market. They buy tons of cars there, including foreign luxury brands. To be fair, foreign luxury marques generally only sell 10-15k cars per year each, but that's while facing tariffs (though they often reduce the tariffs significantly - although not eliminate - by using knockdown kits, albeit at extra expense). Just in Brazil, let alone in Latin America in general.

Also: gasoline prices are USD $4/gal (€1/l). Not world-leading, but definitely above average. And we all know of Teslas' operating cost advantages. Electricity averages USD $0,18/kWh (€0,17/kWh) for residential. Electricity generation is overwhelmingly hydro, with a small but quickly growing solar+wind fraction.

If Tesla builds the market in Brazil, and produces for the whole of South America there, I think a GF3-sized factory can be well justified.



Nobody expects Tesla to be building a Supercharger network around the Amazon any time soon. Few people in Brazil regularly drive around in the Amazon. That's not where the population lives, and certainly not where the monied population lives.

Population density:

q8ukxakt4hy01.png


An Atlantic-coast Supercharger route, ultimately extending through Argentina into Chile, would be obvious.

View attachment 512734

Wondering what @jbcarioca's opinion is on the Gigafactory Brazil speculation.
 
Another factor to keep in mind is that over the last 2 weeks the dollar has strengthened and EUR/USD went down from 1.10 to 1.08 levels, which counts as a significant shift in the FX space.

This means that the TSLA all-time-high measured in Euros is €879, but this was approached today already to within ~2% with the €860.80 peak on Xetra. I.e. the "EUR ATH" has shifted down to $949 in dollars due to currency fluctuations ...

I.e. breaking the $950 level might bring more forced covering from European TSLA shorts.
The currency movement may lead to a slight drag on Q1 earnings too.
 
Re the GINI map, all I can say is that it appears suspect. India? Indonesia? As low income inequality? I've worked in both, traveled in Brazil and I have to say India was about the worst inequality I've ever seen. Bangladesh might give it a run for the money. Malaysia as an issue? Much less so than Indonesia. Anyhow, just observations.

Perhaps this chart would be more informative (ventile = 1/20th).

Income-distribution_US-vs-China-India-world.jpg


Again, to reiterate, this is a graph of income, but the actual relevant parameter is disposable income.

As for the notion that people wouldn't buy expensive cars in Brazil: plenty of people already do. Depends entirely on where in Brazil you are. Or to put it another way: Tesla isn't exactly going to be opening a showroom in Cidade de Deus...

Cidade_de_Deus.jpg


... but they may well in Niterói...

Niter%C3%B3i-Contemporary-Art-Museum-Rio-de-Janeiro-Brazil.jpg
 
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My average cost basis is around $242. TSLA will have to reach $8,712 within less than a year before I can say it beat my previous best "once in a lifetime" stock investment. I'm confident it will reach that amount, but it's going to take a few more years. That's OK though, the years go by fast when you're sitting on nice gains and they continue to grow and compound.
Hey, we have the same cost basis.
 
One of my best memories from the past 90 days was when we all bought shares at 420.69 and, lol, I remember at the time I was like...meh I don’t really want to buy this share.

My cost price is $210.34. So when it doubled, it was one cent short of the magic number !! :p

For sentimental reasons, I think I will open another trading account if I want to buy more shares :D
 
You stock sale is ironically feeding my shares. Thanks.
OK, confession time - I sold 94 shares just before close yesterday for $857.50 - and felt pretty smug about it... On the plus side, they had a cost-basis of $750 and it's my trading account, so I realised $10k in extra cash.

Plus that Friday $875 call I sold on Monday looks a bit dodgy, but there's a lot of water can go under the bridge between now and Friday close, for better or worse o_O

I'll be honest that with $TSLA going up most of the time, the HODL shares are a bit dull, what's another $50k every other day, booooring! Having a play account is fun and I'm enjoying the day-trading, short options experience.

Not an advice.

last time I sold some at 925 and bought back at 760. I am not sure what to do this time. I got burn on my first calls ever last week so I am looking for some redemption.