Screen grab from today's Joe Tegtmeyer Giga Texas droneage. Gives an idea of the total property area compared to the current foundation.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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Huh, even Gigafactories are bigger in Texas.
Given that Austin is in the US and Berlin just had a huge delay with the nearby airport, it is amazing they are anywhere close to Shanghai! Congrats to good planning and planners plus taking the time to learn from what worked (and didn't) at the previous sites.
Go Tesla go go, Tesla be good!
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You're working even harder to tell us comparing Tesla RTs to literally the only RT that actually exists is not comparable.
Even Tesla admitted their $1/hr figure cited wasn't based on any sort of detailed analysis, it's a guess.
And as pointed out- it's not even THAT much cheaper than rideshare stuff. For the example trip given (1 mile) it'd be a $1 difference in fare.
I doubt a ton of folks would ditch their personal cars if only the trip to the drug store was one dollar cheaper.
Certainly to the business RUNNING the network that savings adds up a lot. That's entirely industry changing from THAT side.
To the customer it's nice, but not world-changing from a cost perspective to them.
That's kinda the point.
Even in the place in the US it makes the least sense to own one, and there's tons of cheaper options readily available, tons of folks own cars.
"cost" isn't the thing that's gonna make them change their mind on that.
I mean no offense, but I dunno why "internet source that reports national averages" is more questionable than "random guy on forum who just quoted a price 15-22 times higher than the national average"
If your argument is RTs make sense in a number of highly specific locations, that's great- but nobody was disputing that in the first place.
The conversation was if there's gonna be demand for tens of millions of the things being produced annually, when total rideshare AND taxi vehicles in the entire US is only about 2 million right now.
That's true.
The subway is way better.
I can easily afford all the uber, lyft, or yellow cab rides I want when I'm in NY.
I almost never take em though- the subway besides being cheaper is much faster and more convenient and you don't have to worry about some rando driver trying to talk to you on the trip either.
The Tesla RT would solve the conversation problem- but it'd still take far longer to actually get me where I'm going since the traffic is horrendous in the city... plus the trains come by every few minutes, and are out of the weather- instead of standing around outside waiting for a taxi or uber driver to show up.
....you're not making any sense here.
The point was even in a city where they already have cheap and excellent alternatives you still get nearly half the population owning cars anyway
(I know you said you're in CA- I get the feeling you've never been to NYC or used a subway there? They're fantastic.... I mean, not like as fantastic as in say Vienna because you could eat off the floor in those- but they're fast, reliable, and perfectly safe besides being cheap)
Meaning obviously there's more to wanting to own a car than "Getting from A to B cheaply"
Nation-wide the % of households that don't own at least one car is like eight percent
That's not going to drop a ton with RTs.
Now- if you want to suggest the % of households with multiple cars will drop- well- I've been saying that from the start.
That reads like the magic of you saying I'm making a circular argument and then you make literally the same circular argument going the opposite direction...
You keep focusing on "dramatically cheaper" when nobody knows the actual cost since the actual product does not exist.
And when I've already shown you cost isn't the primary reason many folks own a car instead of taking alternative transport in the first place.
If cost were the issue nobody would own a BMW and everyone would have a Kia. A used Kia ideally.
And privacy is perhaps the weakest argument presented here... you think anyone will consider "a robot car operated by a third party that I have to give my starting and ending address to every time I go anywhere" more private than having your own vehicle?
I thank you too for the discussion... and would also encourage you to visit NYC sometime once it's safe to do so
(Also Vienna)
On the northern part of Tesla’s property what are those long tracks of dark color? Is that crops or is that water?
I think Tesla is further ahead in Germany because BMW got the process started on that plot of land from a regulatory standpoint.
Definitely water. Zoom in on google maps for an easy view. Probably from previous owner operations, like mining gravel, sand, pebbles, etc. There are small piles next to the water. I would guess they were sifting for “valuable” materials like specific particle sizes. Edit: definitely quite some time ago since the google picture shows large shrub growth on the piles.
Google Maps
Speaking of Uber...
Like most of the current auto industry, Uber is doomed.
Eighteen months ago, Uber’s self-driving car unit, Uber Advanced Technologies Group, was valued at $7.25 billion following a $1 billion investment from Toyota, DENSO and SoftBank’s Vision Fund. Now, it’s up for sale and a competing autonomous vehicle technology startup is in talks with Uber to buy it, according to three sources familiar with the deal.
Uber in talks to sell ATG self-driving unit to Aurora – TechCrunch
Uber in talks to sell ATG self-driving unit to Aurora – TechCrunch
Like most of the current auto industry, Uber is doomed.
HyperChange with Mayur Thaker
I don’t come here enough recently. I’m sure this must’ve been covered by lots of commenting, and it was November 2, so not new.
Anyhow, I’m really stoked, so thought I would (re)-post it here for anybody who hasn’t watched it.
He is right up there with the best of the Tesla bulls that I know. Really great charts and information and perspective
We don't need to know the actual cost to know it will be dramatically cheaper. Come on... electric, low maintenance, zero driver-labor, zero-marginal-cost software...
Tesla's estimate of $1 per mile is conservative compared to ARK's: 26 cents per mile.
ARK Contributes Its Financial Autonomous Taxi Model to GitHub
Here is my argument in a nutshell, which you have yet to refute: You keep estimating robotaxi usage based on cheap transport options that exist now, but there has never been a cheap option with the comfort, convenience, privacy and safety of Tesla robotaxis at scale. New technology can change behavior.
And actually, I did ride the NYC subway. As I recall, there was lotsa noise, dirt, hard or unavailable seats, and no way to talk during rush without six strangers eavesdropping. That's what I meant about privacy.
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86 billion is a big number...
Volkswagen Accelerates Investment in Electric Cars as It Races to Overtake Tesla
Volkswagen Accelerates Investment in Electric Cars as It Races to Overtake Tesla
Yes, but we had this story from 3 years ago Volkswagen accelerates push into electric cars with $40 billion spending plan
And this one from last year Volkswagen to spend €60 billion on switch to electric cars | DW | 15.11.2019
It seems that most of this money has been pre-announced several times, Volkswagen have not had a good track record of getting results from the money spent.
The issue with Berlin airport (BER) is not comparable with any issues GigaBerlin may or may not face.
BER is a political project. Planning started in 1997....construction started in 2006....April 2020 it was finally approved for operations. Throughout its entire construction cycle from 1997 - 2020 it was always controversial.
GigaBerlin is a commercial project supported by local and national government. Any issues with permitting etc. are related to the fact that even thought Tesla (and their contractors) are seemingly moving a the speed of light, the relevant authorities (and local population that do have a say) are moving at half the speed of sound. Amazing for German construction projects which generally expect snails pace from the authorities.
I don't find it amazing at all that they are close to or beating Shanghai. I expect it. If you have the support of local and national government (which Tesla does), and you have the right contractor (which Tesla does), then Germany can be extremely efficient in construction. Pre-Fab is one reason, but we are going too far OT I fear...
I think we should applaud and support VW for (at least trying to) putting their money where their mouth is. Be it $40BN or $90BN, doesn't matter. They are doing something to transition their products to sustainability. I think that's great and do not see it as a threat to Tesla. It's going to take a couple more automotive giants to make this change in order for the world to transition to 100% sustainable transportation.
Good on them.
Looks like Leonardo DiCaprio already got his Tesla Roadster:
From The Simpsons. Source: Roadster cameo in the latest Simpsons episode!
From The Simpsons. Source: Roadster cameo in the latest Simpsons episode!
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
This looks fake. I don’t think the Roadster is even out yet. I mean, look—the charger is in the wrong side of the car and I doubt Leonardo DiCaprio would have his full name on his mailbox.
Can’t fool me.
I assume this is good news for Giga Shanghai demand:
Subscribe to read | Financial Times
The RCEP takes most of the existing agreements signed by the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations — Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam — and combines them into a single multilateral pact with Australia, China, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea.
By combining a mishmash of separate arrangements into a single deal, RCEP brings Asia a step closer to becoming a coherent trading zone like the EU or North America, even if it is not expected to lead to large overall tariff reductions.
China’s premier Li Keqiang described the agreement as “a victory of multilateralism and free trade”, according to a report from the official Xinhua news agency.
Japan and South Korea are expected to be among the biggest winners from the deal, but the benefit of cheaper goods will spread as far as Europe and the US.
“We signed [RCEP] today, after a tough slog of eight years,” said Lee Hsien Loong, Singapore’s prime minister, on Sunday. “This is a major step forward for our region. At a time when multilateralism is losing ground, and global growth is slowing, the RCEP shows Asian countries’ support for open and connected supply chains, freer trade and closer interdependence.”
Subscribe to read | Financial Times
The RCEP takes most of the existing agreements signed by the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations — Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand and Vietnam — and combines them into a single multilateral pact with Australia, China, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea.
By combining a mishmash of separate arrangements into a single deal, RCEP brings Asia a step closer to becoming a coherent trading zone like the EU or North America, even if it is not expected to lead to large overall tariff reductions.
China’s premier Li Keqiang described the agreement as “a victory of multilateralism and free trade”, according to a report from the official Xinhua news agency.
Japan and South Korea are expected to be among the biggest winners from the deal, but the benefit of cheaper goods will spread as far as Europe and the US.
“We signed [RCEP] today, after a tough slog of eight years,” said Lee Hsien Loong, Singapore’s prime minister, on Sunday. “This is a major step forward for our region. At a time when multilateralism is losing ground, and global growth is slowing, the RCEP shows Asian countries’ support for open and connected supply chains, freer trade and closer interdependence.”
For those who disagreed, can you please provide some counter arguments for context and get a discussion going?
It's a big number, but throwing money at a problem doesn't mean it's either solvable or quick. I'd expect most of it to be wasted.
2 for 2. My wife have been watching romantic comedy dramas from mainland China and the main characters (who are usually CEOs) are driving Model S as their main form of transportation. I know 10 years ago these people usually drives a Benz s class or a BMW 7 series.
BBA are officially under attack.
BBA are officially under attack.
Electrifying
Member
A new startup helm.ai uses unsupervised learning to teach deep neural nets to do autonomous driving, any expert can comment if this could be a competitive threat to Tesla as it might neutralize Tesla's fleet size advantage? See Forbes article: Forbes Insights: The Future Of AI Is Unsupervised where the CEO talks about no need for labeling : "With unsupervised learning, you feed the model images without labels and it learns to understand those images purely algorithmically. Removing the need for labeling means you can train models faster and more cheaply."
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