Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[mongo]

Musk said there was a leak in the SEC.

Wrong guy to leak about:
Going Beyond the Canary Trap

 

[Cherry Wine]

A look at the range of possible repercussions in the event of successful prosecution:

Insider trading can be punished strictly by civil sanctions, or involve criminal prosecution, or both. Federal law authorizes what are known as “treble” damages if the SEC brings a civil action against you for violating insider trading rules. This means the amount you can be fined can be up to three times the amount of profits gained or losses avoided.

How you are fined is typically up to the court and determined by whether you played a direct or indirect roll in the unlawful activity.

If you are convicted in a criminal insider trading prosecution, you are subject to a maximum of $5 million in fines as an individual (up to $25 million for a business entity), up to 20 years imprisonment, or both fine and imprisonment.

Additional prosecution may result from fraud-related charges that often accompany insider trading violations. Also, you may face other collateral consequences stemming from civil sanctions or a criminal conviction imposed if you are found to be in violation of U.S. securities laws.

More info here, including threshold criteria and defenses.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, investors shook off this news quickly. There was a time that the stock would have taken quite a haircut on this story.

 

[Tyler34]

A look at the range of possible repercussions in the event of successful prosecution:



More info here, including threshold criteria and defenses.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, investors shook off this news quickly. There was a time that the stock would have taken quite a haircut on this story.

maybe because, as starfox pointed out, this news was leaked and was why we were selling off harder than the 2x macros the past week

 

[generalenthu]

IANA(Securities)L, but even if Kimbal knew that Elon was going to post the tweet and it was material information, Elon or Tesla is no way liable. It might be an issue for Kimbal at most, but there is no evidence of Elon telling his brother about posting a tweet and his brother doing it. Elon is way smarter than that, And as someone on twitter pointed out, Elon made his intention to public way earlier in a meeting with Kara swisher around summer last year.

 

[Big Time]

What is TSLA stock doing down here.....

 

[M|S|M MYP]

A look at the range of possible repercussions in the event of successful prosecution:



More info here, including threshold criteria and defenses.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, investors shook off this news quickly. There was a time that the stock would have taken quite a haircut on this story.

Cant really cut any more hair since the Stock is close to being bald after these past 2 weeks

 

[Artful Dodger]

The only thing EM said " I didn't start the fight, but will finish it"

Elon said a lot more than just that one tweet. Here's the original Q on the topic:

Doctor Jack on Twitter: "What if @elonmusk, #TSLA has been baiting the SEC for years, building their case on the level or corruption & now they have enough evidence to go public with it all? Grab your popcorn folks! https://t.co/86AZfePpbk" / Twitter

... and this was Elon's cyptic reply:

Elon Musk on Twitter: "@DoctorJack16 Building a case is exactly what I’ve been doing" / Twitter​

Here's some shade:

James Cat on Twitter: "@elonmusk @DoctorJack16 Starting a fight with the SEC is not a great look." / Twitter

... and Elon's clapback:

Elon Musk on Twitter: "@TSLAFanMtl @DoctorJack16 I didn’t start the fight, but I will finish it." / Twitter​

Lastly is my personal fan-favorite is this comment:

John Sanders on Twitter: "@TSLAFanMtl @elonmusk @DoctorJack16 This fight needs to happen. Anyone trying to start a business,manage a business, raise captial, invest for their families and futures need fair free markets not the illusion of them. Realize it or not this affects everyone. They are stealing the wealth of generations." / Twitter

... because, you know:

84 likes - "Elon probably needs to have this fight now" | Nov 2021 on TMC​

Cheers!

 

[Artful Dodger]

Your optimism is definitely one I can't share lol. TSLA has been performing weaker and weaker throughout the afternoon.

Nope.

 

[CHGolferJim]

It is heartening to see a flattish day with huge volume at least so far. This helps digest some of the put gamma / under-hedging that has accumulated over the past few days, and resets the trend of increasing underperformance relative to the macros as we got deeper into the draw-down.

The situation is still pretty dynamic, with again a large macro move causing Tesla to overshoot, but with the increased IVs and a heavy volume day, there seems to be some fuel building up for an upward move. We are in this state of disequilibrium where we cannot stay here for too long.

edit: some readability improvements.

edit 2: This is not an all clear by any means, as macros are still in the drivers seat here.

The “flattish day” was a 9% drop and a 10% retracement, seems a good signal (which could, of course, evaporate in 16 hours).

 

[Artful Dodger]

All these cars will eventually be sold. So what's the difference? Who cares if a car can't be sold in Texas? Who cares if a car is sold in Berlin today or three Mondays from today?

You are uninformed on the terms of the Berlin temporary production permit ( @Singuy shared the actual wording here at TMC). The 2,000 cars maximum permitted must be DESTROYED, and proof of their destruction provided to the German government. They can not be removed from the country, or sent to any other location, or used in Germany for any other purpose.

Cars being produced right now in Berlin will NOT be sold, ever, without the Goverment changing their rules. Seems unlikely, given past behavior.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Musk, Tesla Denied Hearing Over SEC ‘Harassment’

(Bloomberg) -- Elon Musk and Tesla Inc. were denied a court hearing on their claims that the SEC is targeting them with an “unrelenting investigation” in retaliation for criticisms of the government.Most Read from BloombergRussia Invasion of Ukraine Ignites European Security CrisisRussia Hits...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Drax7]

The “flattish day” was a 9% drop and a 10% retracement, seems a good signal (which could, of course, evaporate in 16 hours).

Gapping down and closing higher is a good sign, temporarily breaking the downward momentum.
given the info out there , the market has discounted what’s out.

 

[Rarity]

The court batted down Tesla's/Elon's request, including some language that makes me think that this path isn't going to be very productive.

Perhaps the Inspector General of the SEC is a better course of action.

 

[mongo]

Musk, Tesla Denied Hearing Over SEC ‘Harassment’

(Bloomberg) -- Elon Musk and Tesla Inc. were denied a court hearing on their claims that the SEC is targeting them with an “unrelenting investigation” in retaliation for criticisms of the government.Most Read from BloombergRussia Invasion of Ukraine Ignites European Security CrisisRussia Hits...

finance.yahoo.com

View attachment 773369

Mostly because they didn't provide any actionable request (which I'm sure the lawyer knew). However, this snippet from the court's response is interesting :
"Further, to the extent that the Defendants have a non-frivolous basis to quash a subpoena in light of the Court's prior orders in this case, the Defendants may make a motion, supported by briefing, that requests specific relief from the Court."
Aka, tag me in and I'll:

Full text:

ALISON J. NATHAN, District Judge: The Court is in receipt of the Defendants Elon Musk and Tesla, Inc.’s letter dated February 17, 2022, as well as the Commission’s response dated February 18, 2022, and the Defendants’ further letter dated February 21, 2022. Dkt. Nos. 61, 63, 64.

The Defendants’ precise application to the Court is unclear. They request a conference to address “why the SEC has failed to distribute these funds to shareholders but has chosen to spend its energy and resources investigating Mr. Musk’s and Tesla’s compliance with the consent decree by issuing subpoenas unilaterally, without Court approval.” Dkt. No. 61 at 1. The Court DENIES this request for a conference. To the extent that the Defendants seek to impose a deadline on the Commission’s implementation of a Plan of Distribution of the Fair Fund, the Defendants may file a motion and submit briefing in support of doing so. Otherwise, the Court cannot enforce a deadline that does not currently exist. E.g., Dkt. Nos. 14, 53, 55.

Further, to the extent that the Defendants have a non-frivolous basis to quash a subpoena in light of the Court’s prior orders in this case, the Defendants may make a motion, supported by briefing, that requests specific relief from the Court.

The Defendants also seek “on-the-record assurance that the Commission has not leaked investigative details in violation of its own rules and policies, and is otherwise acting in accordance with the law.” Dkt. No. 64 at 2–3. The letter does not contain specific facts or legal authority to justify this request. Moreover, the Court doubts that the regulations invoked by the Defendants, 17 C.F.R. §§ 203.2, 203.5, are judicially enforceable against the Commission, see LaMorte v. Mansfield, 438 F.2d 448, 450–51 (2d Cir. 1971) (explaining that the regulations describe only “the discretion possessed by the agency in determining whether to disclose information,” a privilege that “is the agency’s, not the witness’”). The request is DENIED. SO ORDERED. Dated: February 24, 2022 New York, New York ____________________________________ ALISON J. NATHAN United States District Judge​

 

[Discoducky]

You are uninformed on the terms of the Berlin temporary production permit ( @Singuy shared the actual wording here at TMC). The 2,000 cars maximum permitted must be DESTROYED, and proof of their destruction provided to the German government. They can not be removed from the country, or sent to any other location, or used in Germany for any other purpose.

Cars being produced right now in Berlin will NOT be sold, ever, without the Goverment changing their rules. Seems unlikely, given past behavior.

Here is the post that @Artful Dodger is referencing.

Did @avoigt comment on the translation by chance?

 

[2daMoon]

The alleged insider trading by Kimbal is predicated upon him having knowledge that was not public. (in regard to a stock sale that preceded the "should I sell 10%" tweet)

Wasn't that sale of Elon's, which the tweet related to, made public in an SEC filing months prior?

I really don't see this claim against Kimbal going anywhere if that is the way it was.

More front-page FUD and last page correction tactics to keep the Muggles skeered of TSLA?

 

[Hock1]

Mostly because they didn't provide any actionable request (which I'm sure the lawyer knew). However, this snippet from the court's response is interesting :
"Further, to the extent that the Defendants have a non-frivolous basis to quash a subpoena in light of the Court's prior orders in this case, the Defendants may make a motion, supported by briefing, that requests specific relief from the Court."

Full text:

Mostly because they didn't provide any actionable request (which I'm sure the lawyer knew). However, this snippet from the court's response is interesting :
"Further, to the extent that the Defendants have a non-frivolous basis to quash a subpoena in light of the Court's prior orders in this case, the Defendants may make a motion, supported by briefing, that requests specific relief from the Court."

Full text:

The request needs adequate briefing and a request for specific relief. Then the judge will be able to make a decision. Let's do it.

 

[Knightshade]

The alleged insider trading by Kimbal is predicated upon him having knowledge that was not public. (in regard to a stock sale that preceded the "should I sell 10%" tweet)

Wasn't that sale of Elon's, which the tweet relate to, made public in an SEC filing months prior?

I really don't see this claim against Kimbal going anywhere if that is the way it was.

Elons stock sale plan was filed in September, but was not public at that time.

The 10% sale tweet was November.

 

[elasalle]

Here is the post that @Artful Dodger is referencing.

Did @avoigt comment on the translation by chance?

How long will it take authorities to decide where Tesla can dump/discard the parts from the test vehicles Hope opening of factory is not contingent on this approval /s

 

[ClimateOptimst]

More Y's gushing out of Giga Austin...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496939098271105026