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In 2017 they announced they had 2 new bev models coming out in the next 18 months following the bolt.

They actually introduced *checks notes* zero.

In fact 48 months later they had launched... zero. (Unless you count the Bolt EUV built on the same platform)

They finally reached 2 new ones basically last month (the Hummer and the Lyriq- though the first has been made in tiny #s and the second not actually delivered to any customers yet but they're at least building them).


Same time in 2017 they promised to launch -20- total new EV models by 2023.

So far they're at.... well... the 2 I mentioned... halfway through 2023.


The only measure by which GM leads the industry is in unfulfilled press releases.
Vaporware

I first learned of it with the video game industry. A competitor is about to launch a sweet new hi-tech system that has a bunch of interest, so generate a news blast about your upcoming system that will be even better. Done in hopes that some customers will wait to purchase the competitor system while looking forward to seeing your new system. Now marketing hands the news blurb to engineering and many WTFs are generated. Seemed like a common occurrence in the 90s.
 
What the frunk? Hopefully they're pulling apart a battery case, maybe split into teams like the vehicle after separation.
Anticipating their teardown as a potential news source for something cool, what is the one spec that we don't know about the 4680s, is it the charging speed? What's the test they could do to clarify any un-throttled capability, (besides counting how many inside, and weighing them)?
The Munro team are ripping apart the battery pack right now. That will take longer than looking under the hood and at the cabin interior.

The improvements shown in today’s video are probably worth combined at least $10 per car in net savings, mostly on labor and cost of poor quality. For every 10 million Ys sold, that’s $100M saved.

More importantly, it illustrates Tesla’s relentless pace of innovation. There’s probably a bunch of other little things Tesla has improved which either Munro & Ass. hasn’t found or is saving for the paid report.
 

I find it meaningful that a van is on Elon's mind at this point of Cybertruck pre-production. I think it indicates the development of the production processes required to make a vehicle as unique as the Cybertruck and its exoskeleton is going well. I've mentioned this observation here before, but it didn't get the attention it deserved.

If you think Elon is envisioning a van stamped out of heavy, soft and rust-prone mild steel, like all other vans on the road, you haven't been paying attention to what's going on with the Cybertruck (CT) prototypes we have seen multiple examples of as it goes through its development process. The first two prototypes we saw had cold-rolled stainless-steel panels that were clearly bent on a traditional metal bending brake. I believe it was Elon who even commented on the need to score the metal along each bend before it was bent.

However, in the last several months every new prototype we have seen has had a distinct waviness to the body panels that can be clearly seen when the reflection in the panel is viewed at an oblique angle. Maybe someone who knows more about cold-rolled stainless steel than I do can comment but I know enough about the properties of cold-rolled stainless steel to know that it is not naturally wavy and bending it upon straight lines is not going to make it take on a wavy appearance, even if done imperfectly. And the initial prototypes, while they did have misaligned body panels, there was not a hint of waviness visible in their reflective surfaces. This is a super important clue that the production process has changed in a fundamental manner, a production process that I have not seen a single other person contemplate and one that has far-reaching implications for the economics of Cybertruck production and every Tesla utility vehicle hereafter. Maybe even every new model that Tesla releases from here on out.

I think the waviness of recent CT protypes tells us something big has changed in the way these prototypes have been manufactured. I suspect Tesla is buying cheaper rolls of soft, hot-rolled stainless steel and cold working them in-house into hardened CT panels. This would mean they are no longer using a metal brake but bending panels from soft metal on a long line of custom hydraulic rollers as they are also hardening the panels under high roller pressure. This would require development of many hardened rollers of varying angles, so the soft metal panels are progressively bent and hardened they travel down a long line of rollers. Most of the bending would happen quickly at the beginning of the line and most of the hardening and final bending to tight tolerances would happen after that. Ultra-hard, high precision panels would be ejected at high speed at the end of the line, ready for welding into the form of Cybertruck. Unlike an industrial metal brake this would be a continuous process.

Advantages:

-Panel details and cutouts could be performed on soft metal making it much cheaper and quicker to cut. If the metal came from the factory in full-hard form, every shaping and cutting operation is more difficult and requires more expensive, generally slower tools, non-laser/plasma tools wear quickly.

-The grain structure of the hardened metal can be controlled somewhat to optimize strength in the desired areas, in the desired directions. This would be done by adjusting the progression of the rollers to suit desired directional strength.

-The panel thickness can be controlled locally. Welding flanges can be left thicker and the panels can be rolled thinner as required to reduce weight and increase efficiency of material utilization, thereby reducing cost.

-Cost of material is reduced by buying the stainless steel closer to raw form, in its soft state and cost of manufacture is reduced by greatly simplifying production (once such a line is developed and running).

Disadvantages:

-Huge development costs and risk of delays. What I'm suggesting is not easy and has never been done before, AFAIK. It's essentially bringing the cold-rolling hardening process of a metal foundry in-house and integrating it with a roller bending/forming operation. While the potential benefits are mind-blowing, the sheer amount of trial and error needed to get this right shouldn't be under-estimated and I'm not sure it could even be done in a two-year period. So that would seem to argue against this analysis.

-Appearance. If Tesla cannot tune the waviness out of the reflection, it is not as appealing to the eye.

The only other thing I think could cause the waviness is if Tesla adopted a different welding technique that is warping the panels. But I'm not sure why the early prototypes did not have this appearance. Elon's recent comment about a people/cargo van makes me think something about the Cybertruck production/economic projections have been going exceptionally well and he wants to make more vehicles using CT technology!

I'm just dying to learn more about the unique challenges CT presents and the kinds of solutions being applied. It's driving me nuts actually. I don't envy anyone doing financial projections on Tesla because there is still so much unknown. We live in exciting times!
 
Well, as Matt Damon showed in "The Martian," just add some excrement to the Martian soil, water accordingly, and you can grow potatoes!
The Martian only shows one implication of poo. Read THE WORLD IS ENDING-AND THATS JUST THE BEGINNING. I’m not going to try to unpack the book- it’s far too complex. Mods this is not off topic. Tesla is mentioned in the section on global warming, and if the author is even close to right,it has huge implications for Tesla And all green energy. I thought I knew Bretton Woods , I had no idea!
 
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Elon's recent comment about a people/cargo van makes me think something about the Cybertruck production/economic projections have been going exceptionally well and he wants to make more vehicles using CT technology!

Musk called the Cybertruck his and Franz's "Magnum Opus". I don't think he's referring to the truck, I think he's referring to the production line/ method of building it. I just can't see Musk getting super excited about a single vehicle's design. Getting excited about a process that will completely change the way cars are manufactured to massively reduce the cost of building cars/ trucks? Yeah. That's the sort of thing which Musk would get excited about.

Seems to me Musk's life goal is to figure out how to mass-produce/ scale every assembly process (Look at the Raptor engines for the Starship for example, also the GigaPress, and StarLink). I don't think Musk would call something his Magnum Opus unless he actually felt it was significant in this way.

This is a big part of where I think people under-estimate the Cybertruck. It is not the best vehicle he will ever design, the process to build them is his masterpiece.
 
I find it meaningful that a van is on Elon's mind at this point of Cybertruck pre-production. I think it indicates the development of the production processes required to make a vehicle as unique as the Cybertruck and its exoskeleton is going well. I've mentioned this observation here before, but it didn't get the attention it deserved.

If you think Elon is envisioning a van stamped out of heavy, soft and rust-prone mild steel, like all other vans on the road, you haven't been paying attention to what's going on with the Cybertruck (CT) prototypes we have seen multiple examples of as it goes through its development process. The first two prototypes we saw had cold-rolled stainless-steel panels that were clearly bent on a traditional metal bending brake. I believe it was Elon who even commented on the need to score the metal along each bend before it was bent.

However, in the last several months every new prototype we have seen has had a distinct waviness to the body panels that can be clearly seen when the reflection in the panel is viewed at an oblique angle. Maybe someone who knows more about cold-rolled stainless steel than I do can comment but I know enough about the properties of cold-rolled stainless steel to know that it is not naturally wavy and bending it upon straight lines is not going to make it take on a wavy appearance, even if done imperfectly. And the initial prototypes, while they did have misaligned body panels, there was not a hint of waviness visible in their reflective surfaces. This is a super important clue that the production process has changed in a fundamental manner, a production process that I have not seen a single other person contemplate and one that has far-reaching implications for the economics of Cybertruck production and every Tesla utility vehicle hereafter. Maybe even every new model that Tesla releases from here on out.

I think the waviness of recent CT protypes tells us something big has changed in the way these prototypes have been manufactured. I suspect Tesla is buying cheaper rolls of soft, hot-rolled stainless steel and cold working them in-house into hardened CT panels. This would mean they are no longer using a metal brake but bending panels from soft metal on a long line of custom hydraulic rollers as they are also hardening the panels under high roller pressure. This would require development of many hardened rollers of varying angles, so the soft metal panels are progressively bent and hardened they travel down a long line of rollers. Most of the bending would happen quickly at the beginning of the line and most of the hardening and final bending to tight tolerances would happen after that. Ultra-hard, high precision panels would be ejected at high speed at the end of the line, ready for welding into the form of Cybertruck. Unlike an industrial metal brake this would be a continuous process.

Advantages:

-Panel details and cutouts could be performed on soft metal making it much cheaper and quicker to cut. If the metal came from the factory in full-hard form, every shaping and cutting operation is more difficult and requires more expensive, generally slower tools, non-laser/plasma tools wear quickly.

-The grain structure of the hardened metal can be controlled somewhat to optimize strength in the desired areas, in the desired directions. This would be done by adjusting the progression of the rollers to suit desired directional strength.

-The panel thickness can be controlled locally. Welding flanges can be left thicker and the panels can be rolled thinner as required to reduce weight and increase efficiency of material utilization, thereby reducing cost.

-Cost of material is reduced by buying the stainless steel closer to raw form, in its soft state and cost of manufacture is reduced by greatly simplifying production (once such a line is developed and running).

Disadvantages:

-Huge development costs and risk of delays. What I'm suggesting is not easy and has never been done before, AFAIK. It's essentially bringing the cold-rolling hardening process of a metal foundry in-house and integrating it with a roller bending/forming operation. While the potential benefits are mind-blowing, the sheer amount of trial and error needed to get this right shouldn't be under-estimated and I'm not sure it could even be done in a two-year period. So that would seem to argue against this analysis.

-Appearance. If Tesla cannot tune the waviness out of the reflection, it is not as appealing to the eye.

The only other thing I think could cause the waviness is if Tesla adopted a different welding technique that is warping the panels. But I'm not sure why the early prototypes did not have this appearance. Elon's recent comment about a people/cargo van makes me think something about the Cybertruck production/economic projections have been going exceptionally well and he wants to make more vehicles using CT technology!

I'm just dying to learn more about the unique challenges CT presents and the kinds of solutions being applied. It's driving me nuts actually. I don't envy anyone doing financial projections on Tesla because there is still so much unknown. We live in exciting times!
Do you have any pics showing the difference wave/no-wave? I thought the recent were decent.
Takes a lot of energy to roll, and thinking water to cool, no? But like you say, always full of surprises! Maybe they're casting them now for all we know.
 
In 2017 they announced they had 2 new bev models coming out in the next 18 months following the bolt.

They actually introduced *checks notes* zero.

In fact 48 months later they had launched... zero. (Unless you count the Bolt EUV built on the same platform)

They finally reached 2 new ones basically last month... a few months shy of 5 years after they promised 18 months (the two being the Hummer and the Lyriq- though the first has been made in tiny #s and the second not actually delivered to any customers yet but they're at least building them).


Same time in 2017 they promised to launch -20- total new EV models by 2023.

So far they're at.... well... the 2 I mentioned... halfway through 2023.


The only measure by which GM leads the industry is in unfulfilled press releases.
Excellent summary, thank you!

/s
I'm 100% sure those predictions/promises were made in good faith and definitely not to prop up a failing business.
/s
 
But why do you put that negativity out there right at market open, before there is even a trend to comment on? It's a favorite technique of someone holding a bearish short-term position in a misguided attempt to bend the market to their will.
Actually, it is a sign of severe PTSD from watching our accounts loose most of their value this year despite TSLA being worth 2X it's current SP.... Many of us in the "other thread" have this ailment as well.... 🥴
 
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I suggest that they try to get CT, Roadster 2 and Semi out.

Typical time frame in the auto industry to go from concept to production is 6-8 years. Tesla does it considerably more quickly but that doesn't mean they don't have to start planning it years in advance, these things must be worked on concurrently with existing projects. Doing it in a linear fashion would mean failure.
 
Van version of Cybertruck.

Now that we've seen the pack and seats pulled right out the bottom of a Model Y, lets hope we can someday get a skateboard version of the CT. Give me the frame, drivetrain, and pack with front seats. I'll bolt on a vintage Bronco tub or something. Or a sleeper van with extra battery pack.

I think it will be hard to cut'n'paste Cybertruck into other configurations after-market. Remember than the outer body is the frame in the CT. Sure, maybe the battery skateboard with the front and rear castings can be isolated. But the front cab doesn't exist separate from the rear bed. In other words, it will be up to Tesla to manufacture other vehicle types vs. what has been done for decades with body-on-frame trucks.
 
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Actually, it is a sign of severe PTSD from watching our accounts loose most of their value this year despite TSLA being worth 2X it's current SP.... Many of us in the "other thread" have this ailment as well.... 🥴

You had me so worried, I had to check my account values, something I don't normally do:

Nope, it's not even close to *most* of it being gone. Whew! You had me worried. I noticed I have quite a bit more shares now than I did at the beginning of the year! :D I think I'm going to look back on 2022 with a similar fondness to 2019!
 
You had me so worried, I had to check my account values, something I don't normally do:

Nope, it's not even close to *most* of it being gone. Whew! You had me worried. I noticed I have quite a bit more shares now than I did at the beginning of the year! :D I think I'm going to look back on 2022 with a similar fondness to 2019!
Same here, I have a few hundred more shares now (non-tax) with my involvement in the options thread as I've been acquiring through sold puts on the way down. That stopped in the 800s though and I'm patiently waiting for it to come back...shortly ;)
 
Do you have any pics showing the difference wave/no-wave? I thought the recent were decent.
Takes a lot of energy to roll, and thinking water to cool, no? But like you say, always full of surprises! Maybe they're casting them now for all we know.

I don't have any images off-hand, I would have to search them down. I think the best ones I've seen were actually videos. There was one at GigaRodeo and one from the commissioning of a big battery storage project, I think. Yes, they are not too bad in terms of waviness, but the first couple CT prototypes had no waviness visible. Quite a change really.

Metal foundries use liquid cooling. It can be an oil or a water-based substance. The amount of cooling energy needed is small and it doesn't matter if it happens at the metal supplier's factory or at Tesla.
 
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I find it meaningful that a van is on Elon's mind at this point of Cybertruck pre-production. I think it indicates the development of the production processes required to make a vehicle as unique as the Cybertruck and its exoskeleton is going well. I've mentioned this observation here before, but it didn't get the attention it deserved.

If you think Elon is envisioning a van stamped out of heavy, soft and rust-prone mild steel, like all other vans on the road, you haven't been paying attention to what's going on with the Cybertruck (CT) prototypes we have seen multiple examples of as it goes through its development process. The first two prototypes we saw had cold-rolled stainless-steel panels that were clearly bent on a traditional metal bending brake. I believe it was Elon who even commented on the need to score the metal along each bend before it was bent.

However, in the last several months every new prototype we have seen has had a distinct waviness to the body panels that can be clearly seen when the reflection in the panel is viewed at an oblique angle. Maybe someone who knows more about cold-rolled stainless steel than I do can comment but I know enough about the properties of cold-rolled stainless steel to know that it is not naturally wavy and bending it upon straight lines is not going to make it take on a wavy appearance, even if done imperfectly. And the initial prototypes, while they did have misaligned body panels, there was not a hint of waviness visible in their reflective surfaces. This is a super important clue that the production process has changed in a fundamental manner, a production process that I have not seen a single other person contemplate and one that has far-reaching implications for the economics of Cybertruck production and every Tesla utility vehicle hereafter. Maybe even every new model that Tesla releases from here on out.

I think the waviness of recent CT protypes tells us something big has changed in the way these prototypes have been manufactured. I suspect Tesla is buying cheaper rolls of soft, hot-rolled stainless steel and cold working them in-house into hardened CT panels. This would mean they are no longer using a metal brake but bending panels from soft metal on a long line of custom hydraulic rollers as they are also hardening the panels under high roller pressure. This would require development of many hardened rollers of varying angles, so the soft metal panels are progressively bent and hardened they travel down a long line of rollers. Most of the bending would happen quickly at the beginning of the line and most of the hardening and final bending to tight tolerances would happen after that. Ultra-hard, high precision panels would be ejected at high speed at the end of the line, ready for welding into the form of Cybertruck. Unlike an industrial metal brake this would be a continuous process.

Advantages:

-Panel details and cutouts could be performed on soft metal making it much cheaper and quicker to cut. If the metal came from the factory in full-hard form, every shaping and cutting operation is more difficult and requires more expensive, generally slower tools, non-laser/plasma tools wear quickly.

-The grain structure of the hardened metal can be controlled somewhat to optimize strength in the desired areas, in the desired directions. This would be done by adjusting the progression of the rollers to suit desired directional strength.

-The panel thickness can be controlled locally. Welding flanges can be left thicker and the panels can be rolled thinner as required to reduce weight and increase efficiency of material utilization, thereby reducing cost.

-Cost of material is reduced by buying the stainless steel closer to raw form, in its soft state and cost of manufacture is reduced by greatly simplifying production (once such a line is developed and running).

Disadvantages:

-Huge development costs and risk of delays. What I'm suggesting is not easy and has never been done before, AFAIK. It's essentially bringing the cold-rolling hardening process of a metal foundry in-house and integrating it with a roller bending/forming operation. While the potential benefits are mind-blowing, the sheer amount of trial and error needed to get this right shouldn't be under-estimated and I'm not sure it could even be done in a two-year period. So that would seem to argue against this analysis.

-Appearance. If Tesla cannot tune the waviness out of the reflection, it is not as appealing to the eye.

The only other thing I think could cause the waviness is if Tesla adopted a different welding technique that is warping the panels. But I'm not sure why the early prototypes did not have this appearance. Elon's recent comment about a people/cargo van makes me think something about the Cybertruck production/economic projections have been going exceptionally well and he wants to make more vehicles using CT technology!

I'm just dying to learn more about the unique challenges CT presents and the kinds of solutions being applied. It's driving me nuts actually. I don't envy anyone doing financial projections on Tesla because there is still so much unknown. We live in exciting times!
Calling all materials engineers and scientists!
 
Thru the end of the week I'm predicting Cyber Ass! I think MM's will be able to cap at $700 or up to $750.

But the oil trade has broken. If that continues down, I think the Fed will cool to a nice .50 next time around and then maybe even a .25 after that.

Split. Guidance. Macro easing. Tesla will splode before long. $1400 by Thanksgiving.
I'm afraid to ask Craiyon what Tesla Cyber Ass looks like.
 
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I track the changes at supercharge.info and it does seem like the pace of new supercharger stations has increased. Especially in Europe.
That site's "Charts" page is an excellent resource for determining rates of change and other such data, broken down into geographic regions: supercharge.info