Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Knightshade]

Can you verify that? I would think that a 10b5-1 plan would, as a matter of course, exclude those periods ( i.e., 15 days prior to end of quarter until 2 days after disclosure of Q results ), but I very easily could be wrong.

You are. We've been over this a bunch of times with links....and folks like Gary and Dave Lee have likewise confirmed that

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471683469591777281

Here's Sawyer citing such a sale DURING a blackout period by Elon

https://twitter.com/x/status/1473489029224087555

After doing a bit of research, the only thing I could find relative to establishing, or utilizing a 10b5-1 during a blackout period is this:

Can a Rule 10b5‐1 plan be established during, or designed to permit transactions during, a company blackout period?
An employee or director should review the company’s insider trading policy to determine whether the company permits establishment of a plan during a blackout period or permits trades during a blackout period pursuant to a plan. It is up to the Company whose shares are being traded. IANAL, but it would be prudent not to allow trading during these blackout periods, except in unusual circumstances.

Right- SEC is fine with 10b5-1 plans during blackout periods- only company rules would prevent it- and Tesla has no such rules.

 

[mongo]

It might be more , what would a sale like that do for the stock?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1577347873980792835

Gary appears to be overlooking current TWTR shareholders who go private with Musk.
Those share don't need to be purchased at any price. Effectively boosts 3P contributions by 30%. At max 7B * 30% = another 2B.

Guessing judge could also force sale if needed as they are not privy to material nonpublic information.

 

[Krugerrand]

Don't worry, Elon will make it as painful as possible for TSLA shareholders like usual. Never in my life have I seen a CEO bend shareholders over like Elon has done for the past year.

Before anyone starts replying with the typical TMC comments of "Don't invest money you can lose", "Hold and everything will be fine", "You have to have a invest horizon of many years" and so on........you can be holding long and believe in the long term value and still admit Elon has torpedo'd shareholders/Tesla employees like no CEO in history has done.

Shareholders and employees as well have to deal with life and the unpredictably it brings. I personally know multiple people that are investors that invested in a responsible way (no options, no margin) and just had some life events happen that forced them to sell. These are people that had been invested fornearly two years.

I personally know one Tesla employee that had to a family event happen that required them to sell RSU's in the past 4 months. This person wasn't planning on having to sell a large % of her RSU's, but life happened. And she's pissed.......and rightfully so.

Nope. Elon gave fair warning and even had it put in the ER documents. Says the person in the middle of a huge mountain build getting smoked by logistics hell and labor shortages and inflated prices. I’m not paying for it with empty soda cans. I’ve had to get creative to navigate this bs.

Additionally, you’ve misplaced your pissosity. It’s WS shenanigans using whatever they can to create volatility and churn in the stock to take money out of people’s pockets. TSLA has accounted for more than 50% of the entire options market. ONE ticker!! That shouldn’t be possible. Certain agencies delaying putting TSLA into indexes they rightfully deserve to be in. Etsy for bloody sake got into the S&P before TSLA. Manufactured stories, bs headlines, shills getting prime air time, over reactions on micro and macro levels, the list is endless.

I get you want someone easy to blame for your portfolio balance and he’s got a flashing neon sign around his neck because he refuses to play game. Suck it up buttercup because sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, you and your family will be more than happy to benefit from his hard work.

 

[Hock1]

You are. We've been over this a bunch of times with links....and folks like Gary and Dave Lee have likewise confirmed that

https://twitter.com/x/status/1471683469591777281

Here's Sawyer citing such a sale DURING a blackout period by Elon

https://twitter.com/x/status/1473489029224087555

Right- SEC is fine with 10b5-1 plans during blackout periods- only company rules would prevent it- and Tesla has no such rules.

sure. Thanks for regurgitating to me the new information that I just gave you. Your original statement concerning the issue was black and white. I was merely trying to point out that, with many things, gray areas sometimes emerge with further DD.`

 

[Bet TSLA]

Hardly perfection and no more than I do myself for my houseplants. It takes little practice to identify drooping leaves or to learn that water makes soil darker. It doesn’t take an expert eye to distinguish between a dying plant and a thriving one. Most anyone can figure out if a plant is responding well to their care.

Plants are living things. Each species has its own specific requirements to thrive. While homes and buildings offer more hospitable (for some plants) and less changeable environments than the outdoors, their own environments fluctuate across days and seasons.

Sure, watering while you are away is great. And as I suggested, maybe Optimus could provide a low, but not entirely useless level of care. However, most people would expect Optimus to take over the watering on an on-going basis. I don’t think Tesla intended for people to conclude that Optimus was competent to do so yet.

Optimus identified a watering can…it picked it up…it tilted the can and, perhaps, poured water into a planter. That’s what we saw. I’m impressed by that. I expect Tesla to focus on other tasks, but have no doubt they could make Optimus more competent to water plants by hand if they so desired.

Yup, some people will spring for a bespoke plant watering robot at $200K. I'll use Optimus, who I'll tell "Water the plants while I'm gone and try not to kill anything." It will cost me nothing because I already have Optimus for some other necessary tasks. And yeah, Optimus probably won't get it exactly right the first couple of times. So what?

In any case, this is all well in the future.

 

[The Accountant]

Gary appears to be overlooking current TWTR shareholders who go private with Musk.
Those share don't need to be purchased at any price. Effectively boosts 3P contributions by 30%. At max 7B * 30% = another 2B.

Guessing judge could also force sale if needed as they are not privy to material nonpublic information.

Are there current TWTR shareholders going private with Musk? I don't remember hearing this and I am not sure if there is a mechanism for this unless it is a large holder. Where can I find info on current shareholders joining?

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Nope. Elon gave fair warning and even had it put in the ER documents. Says the person in the middle of a huge mountain build getting smoked by logistics hell and labor shortages and inflated prices. I’m not paying for it with empty soda cans. I’ve had to get creative to navigate this bs.

Additionally, you’ve misplaced your pissosity. It’s WS shenanigans using whatever they can to create volatility and churn in the stock to take money out of people’s pockets. TSLA has accounted for more than 50% of the entire options market. ONE ticker!! That shouldn’t be possible. Certain agencies delaying putting TSLA into indexes they rightfully deserve to be in. Etsy for bloody sake got into the S&P before TSLA. Manufactured stories, bs headlines, shills getting prime air time, over reactions on micro and macro levels, the list is endless.

I get you want someone easy to blame for your portfolio balance and he’s got a flashing neon sign around his neck because he refuses to play game. Suck it up buttercup because sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, you and your family will be more than happy to benefit from his hard work.

Sure ok Love how the responses to my post prove my point

 

[MikeC]

Are there current TWTR shareholders going private with Musk? I don't remember hearing this and I am not sure if there is a mechanism for this unless it is a large holder. Where can I find info on current shareholders joining?

I think referring to large shareholders like the Saudis, Dorsey, etc.

 

[mongo]

Are there current TWTR shareholders going private with Musk? I don't remember hearing this and I am not sure if there is a mechanism for this unless it is a large holder. Where can I find info on current shareholders joining?

It would be large holders, not average retail.
I checked after I posted and it turns out there doesn't seem to be any large (>1%) individual holders. However, if equity firms transition over, that would also cut cost (but trade off near term profit for them)

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Don't worry, Elon will make it as painful as possible for TSLA shareholders like usual. Never in my life have I seen a CEO bend shareholders over like Elon has done for the past year.

Before anyone starts replying with the typical TMC comments of "Don't invest money you can lose", "Hold and everything will be fine", "You have to have a invest horizon of many years" and so on........you can be holding long and believe in the long term value and still admit Elon has torpedo'd shareholders/Tesla employees like no CEO in history has done.

Shareholders and employees as well have to deal with life and the unpredictably it brings. I personally know multiple people that are investors that invested in a responsible way (no options, no margin) and just had some life events happen that forced them to sell. These are people that had been invested fornearly two years.

I personally know one Tesla employee that had to a family event happen that required them to sell RSU's in the past 4 months. This person wasn't planning on having to sell a large % of her RSU's, but life happened. And she's pissed.......and rightfully so.

I think it could be argued that these low share prices will end up helping a lot more retail investors over the long run, versus hurting a few in the short term.

 

[Knightshade]

sure. Thanks for regurgitating to me the new information that I just gave you.

Sure. I pointed out the question had been repeatedly answered clearly in the past (including by me and others) and you were wrong, but YOU "provided new information" by repeating stuff we'd posted about months ago. Right.

Your original statement concerning the issue was black and white.

Because it is. I then provided you literal proof of Elon selling with 10b-1 during a blackout period, the thing you specifically ASKED for verification of being possible.

So again seems YOU didn't know- now you do.

I was merely trying to point out that, with many things, gray areas sometimes emerge with further DD.`

Except you turned out to be wrong, there's no gray at all. Tesla holders can sell during blackouts with a plan on file. Just like apparently everyone but you already knew last year when Elon did it.


Protip- when you say you might be wrong- and someone proves you are- gracefully admit it and move on instead of digging a deeper hole.

 

[MartinAustin]

Never in my life have I seen a CEO bend shareholders over like Elon has done for the past year.

Where were you between December 2018 and June 2019??? TSLA fell from $24.79 ($372-ish before any of the splits... pretty darn high) to $11.80 ($177-ish). That was pretty brutal

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Ya know this is a perfect time for Tesla to start ADVERTISING! Anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

[Raisin45567]

It'll be good to get Twitter nonsense out of the way before quarterly results are out.

Solid chance most/ all of the bad news for the quarter is priced in after this Monday's collapse and the actual earnings will be fine. Getting rid of the negative overhang from Twitter as well will be a big relief and if earnings are bang up in spite of the deliveries number (maybe?), should clear the way for a decent run into 4Q. If this quarter's earnings turn out to be mediocre then all the more reason to have this out of the way.

I personally don't care much if Musk buying Twitter is "Good" or "Bad", it was hurting Tesla short term so it'll be nice to have this behind us. The timing here for us as shareholders would work out well. Better would have been this being done 6 months ago, but today, prior to earnings is as good as we can get at this point.

What about the storm when Trump is allowed back?

 

[Prunesquallor]

Hard to argue with that.

 

[Todd Burch]

Sounds like Tesla might be considering not reporting P&D numbers and only having the earnings call. I'd vote for that. Put an end to the Wall Street circus.

 

[Paracelsus]

Elon Musk to provide Florida with Starlink satellites in response to Hurricane Ian

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis said SpaceX Chief Executive Elon Musk agreed to provide the company's satellite internet service, Starlink, for help in response to Hurricane Ian in areas of Southwest Florida still without connectivity.

www.reuters.com

My feeling here is Musk (or his attorneys) think his deposition in court will be more damaging than good. Perhaps for the lawsuit or in general.

I don't think the timing here is coincidental.

There is also reason to believe that there is much more going on here than just the facts in this case. The timing of this case - particularly when it gets finally resolved in a manner that Elon can make his purchase and immediately implement changes to Twitter and eliminate Twitter Bots is every bit as important to Elon and to both sides of the aisle IMO. And there are mid-term elections just around the corner. And thus I don’t think it any coincidence that the dates were postponed prior to this - that would be very advantageous to one side of the aisle. And I also think there could be considerable Capital ready to be deployed to facilitate this purchase much earlier by the other side of the aisle that would benefit if Twitter was cleaned up and Bots and fake accounts eliminated. Which would mean Elon would have Capital beyond TSLA shares for the purchase.

Don’t lose sight of the fact that Elon is both fascinated and motivated by Ben Franklin and his core principles - to the point of frequently recommending Franklin’s biography as one of the 10 most important books he has read. Watch the Ken Burn’s documentary on Franklin and you will find yourself frequently drawing parallels with Elon - to include Franklin’s creativity and his inventions that were focused on improving life quality, and Franklin’s insistence of making those patents free to everyone. But the most important parallel IMO is their insistence of a free press for the good of all. Elon has literally talked of Twitter and it’s potential usefulness as Franklin might have - as though he is calling plays from Franklin’s book. And I would venture to say with confidence that Elon was also inspired by Franklin’s letters to the editor written under the pen name of Silence Dogood, although he has never mentioned it. Franklin’s efforts to take on the very powerful press owners of that day for the benifit of everyone is all too similar to Elon and Twitter, and Elon’s efforts to clean it up. And if it is cleaned up before mid-term elections it very much could change some outcomes. Which is why timing could be far more important than cost.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I think most of you are just too intellectual for your own good. I think only a very small portion of the population really gives a rat's ass about what Elon tweets, or what his political beliefs are. I find it really amusing how bent out of shape everyone gets with every controversial Elon tweet. No brain no pain. Thank you drugs, head injuries, and heavy metals.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

Stop discussing vegetarians/vegans and meat. Every time I move a few posts to Off topic galore several more appear. I will now start deleting them.

And also a reminder not to reopen the discussion about Elon’s tweets, which was closed by the head mod this morning.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Sounds like Tesla might be considering not reporting P&D numbers and only having the earnings call. I'd vote for that. Put an end to the Wall Street circus.

Source?

I for one would love that. Analyst/Wall St would have to stop gaming their delivery estimates and their EPS estimates.......like we just saw in the past week where they dropped delivery estimates or dropped their PT and yet increased their EPS estimates.

Also, as Energy becomes a larger part of revenues, it either needs to be added to the P/D report or Tesla just not do the P/D report.