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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I dumped all my Tesla stock today.


Again? You May 11 2020-
I dumped MOST of my Tesla stock this morning. Here's a logical man who's a scientist. He should be able to understand epidimiology.

And then again less than 10 days later you again claimed THAT day you dumped most of your stock.



Then again you did say "most" both of those times and "all" now... wonder how much the difference is....oh, wait, you told us just a few months ago!

I own 10 shares
 
I was on this forum on another account back in 2017. Never would have imagined this would be where we're at regarding Tesla, TSLA, averting climate change, and the state of the world in 2022...5 years later.

There's times I really wonder what Tesla, TSLA, and averting climate change would be if TSLA wasn't nerfed and manipulated so much on the stock market...and had been growing linearly alongside its revenue growth during the 2016-2020 years.
 
Elon talks about being a "free speech absolutist" but is perfectly happy to try and get people he disagrees with banned.

Did you read that on Twitter? Evidence please.

...Recall back to when he was offering some technical help to a rescue mission, and when his gear was not appropriate to the job he got ugly and personal enough to wind up in court.

If you knew the whole story, you would know it got ugly before Elon responded in kind, for which he apologized. The other guy didn't, to my knowledge.

We don't need that kind of judgement in charge of "moderation" which is a difficult nuanced job requiring clear standards and a steady hand.

You seem to have missed my point about his plans for moderation. Well, I can understand your anger. You unleashed the kraken today.

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He’s a highly functional Asperger who happened to create the most successful EV company of all time, the most successful rocket company of all time and he has a Twitter account. The reason he has proven all the naysayers wrong with his first 2 companies by doing whatever he thinks is right is also the reason he tweets whatever he thinks is right on Twitter.
I wouldn't want The Rainman as a friend either.
 
I dumped all my Tesla stock today. Twitter IS a dumpster fire. It's like every jerk in the world wants to show me his food or some dictator wants to spew lies. No control and the media eats it up. And his remarks about how Ukraine should remain neutral and people should vote who they want to join. He's an idiot. He learned nothing about his home country's sad history and he thinks he knows the difference between fascism and democracy. As soon as Ioniq 6 comes out my Tesla is for sale. He will be taking Tesla into the tank over a stupid app where anyone can say whatever they want. Dumbass. And FSD is still junk
M'kay, bye.
 
I dumped all my Tesla stock today. Twitter IS a dumpster fire. It's like every jerk in the world wants to show me his food or some dictator wants to spew lies. No control and the media eats it up. And his remarks about how Ukraine should remain neutral and people should vote who they want to join. He's an idiot. He learned nothing about his home country's sad history and he thinks he knows the difference between fascism and democracy. As soon as Ioniq 6 comes out my Tesla is for sale. He will be taking Tesla into the tank over a stupid app where anyone can say whatever they want. Dumbass. And FSD is still junk
From my experience, "FSD is still junk" is a true statement. I keep seeing other people in very different environments say very positive things though.

Regarding the Ukraine, Google "Poseidon torpedo" before you assume you know everything you need to know about Putin and Russia. (I wouldn't want to be on a carrier right now.) I'm worried about this but nobody else (except Elon) seems to be taking Putin's nuclear threats seriously.

Twitter is a mess. 75% of the employees will be gone in six months. Elon never gets enough credit for his business sense. I think he can fix Twitter and it will be a great benefit to Tesla to have a powerful media ally.

My guess is you got margined out of your TSLA stock. Elon doesn't care about people trading/speculating/gambling in his stock ... and he shouldn't.

Good luck on your next endeavor.
 
Managers at very large hedge funds don’t get to buy whatever the eff they want. Large positions go through an investment review committee where pros and cons are debated, sometimes by assigning someone to take the other side.

The way I see it is that one side can come with a whole bunch of numbers that point to the investment opportunity but the other side can point to the high volatility, sideways stock over last couple of years and basically say that Elon is both the engine that drives the company and the risk that can blow up the stock price.

The entire “funding secured” debacle followed by the need to dump shares for this Twitter debacle is case in point.

They are willing to buy at a discount for growth over next few quarters but anything longer than that is subject to Elon being an *** risk factor.
 
I have never looked inside a tesla through an open window or door. I've never touched one. I want my EV Maidenhead to be taken by My Cyber(nota)truck. (I hope she appreciates it?)
But as far as FSD goes, The first time it chimes and moves forward to my destination I will lose my mind. So call FSD "junk" or whatever but in my 65 years of being in a car not a single foot was decided by a robot. It won't be junk on that day.
 
Heck, @Gigapress sold 15% of his TSLA shares yesterday. Now that one deserves attention and a caution never to buy on margin, and @Gigapress is one of the most prolific posters here on TMC.
I would like to explain my rationale more on my aggressive investment strategy to get feedback from the TMC hivemind and to maybe give useful perspective for people.

Not that I'm giving advice anyway, but I want to say that I would absolutely not recommend that most people copy this strategy. I am doing things and thinking about things radically differently than most people, my situation is different than most people, and presently I have neither dependents to support nor a long-term partner whose feelings I need to consider when making investment decisions.

First of all, I should mention that the majority of my TSLA shares are safely tucked away in tax-advantaged retirement accounts with no debt or options shenanigans. I could liquidate these accounts in an emergency. The countless margin calls (literally...I have lost count of how many happened this year) are only occurring in my regular brokerage account. I checked in today and calculated that my net debt-to-equity ratio for my investment portfolio is about 40%, which is tolerable risk for my current preferences. If I were really fully leveraged on margin this D/E ratio would be much higher.

My overall personal net debt is probably much lower than most people here, because I don't own my residence and I have no student loans, medical loans or anything like that. I do have a car loan because I finally bought a Model 3 a couple weeks ago, but that debt is low-risk because it is approximately canceled out by the resale value of the car, which is quite stable compared to assets like TSLA, and the car itself is insured against catastrophic loss of value from stuff like damage and theft. I also have a few credit cards I'm maxing out, because I kept getting mail advertisement for no-strings-attached 0% interest for 18 months and I decided it would be irrational not to take advantage of that. Presumably they hope I'll just not pay the debt off at the end of the intro period.

Also, I still think people generally misunderstand something fundamental and crucial about the risk of margin, which is that you can lose extra money on the way down, but as long as the asset price eventually increases, then the same process works in reverse. As the stock price rises, the market value of my margin equity would increase in proportion to the TSLA price, which then increases my margin credit, which enables me to buy more shares to replace the shares I sold on the way down. This is a bit of an oversimplification and one important factor is that forced sales have tax consequences; I'm locking in a huge amount of long-term capital gains this year, which is not very tax-efficient, but oh well. Except for the tax stuff, I haven't identified any reason to care about margin calls as long as I am extremely confident that the underlying asset is eventually going back up to where it was and beyond.

That's why I don't complain or fret about Wall Street manipulation and misunderstanding; they are serving me a Golden Opportunity on a Silver Platter and I intend to exploit it hard. I will gladly take their capital because I have big ambitions for philanthropy projects I'd like to do when I'm older and I don't think the hedge fund managers would spend the money as well as I can. Alternatively, it's not the end of the world if my projections are totally wrong and I lose everything and end up as a washed-up 28-year-old engineer with good health, around $10k or $100k, and an employment history gap of one year in which time I put out 1000 investment analysis posts that are allegedly pretty impressive. I could do a lot worse than that, and I think I could recover quickly in such a scenario.

My overall financial risk is mitigated when I take into account other assets with less-tangible value that I can use to acquire more money in the future at the expense of the unemployed freedom I currently enjoy, such as:
  • Health
  • Engineering degree and employment history
  • Knowledge & skills about all kinds of things
  • US citizenship and passport
  • Native English language fluency
  • Boeing network (I know they would like me to come back)
  • TMC network (If I needed a job, I think probably someone here would be able and willing to help)
  • Being a white male
  • Ability to get into good grad school
  • No criminal record
  • Enjoying working with computers
  • Living in the 21st century with all its technological and infrastructural wonders like indoor plumbing, smartphones, cheap ubiquitous broadband internet, electricity, etc.
My net investment portfolio value is down approximately 80% since the peak last year. My assets as of today are definitely not enough to sustain this semi-retirement indefinitely with a 4% withdrawal rate. Back in January, I didn't anticipate this when I handed over my badge and laptop to my manager and said goodbye. However, with the way I have chosen to play this craziness, the 2022 TSLA market irrationality will actually end up being by far the best thing that ever happened to my finances, because TSLA call options have gotten so ludicrously freaking cheap (in my estimation) that the temporary annoyance we are experiencing may pay off by one or two orders of magnitude over the next two years. The more irrational the pricing error gets, the more aggressive I get. If actual bad stuff threatening the earnings explosion were happening then I would not be doing this, but I've concluded that the market doesn't understand what's coming and in many cases the market seemingly misinterprets very good news as disappointing. I mean, the stock dropped hard after Battery Day and after AI Day. Come on.

I think my risk of being wrong on TSLA/Tesla modeling is greatly mitigated by:
  • Specialization. I know a lot about this one thing and related subjects due to obsessively researching it and spending thousands of hours crunching numbers and thinking.
  • Formal educational background in electrical/computer engineering and economics and career in manufacturing/quality, which seems to be very important for deeply understanding this one thing.
  • Past history since 2017 of generally understanding Tesla the company and the EV market and making generally accurate predictions about how the business would work out. (Actually, I underestimated Tesla in 2018 when I bought most of my shares.)
  • Living in Seattle/Bellevue for the last several years and seeing the staggering growth with my own eyes
  • TMC community. I learn things here every day. I hope I've successfully communicated that I want critical feedback and y'all follow through on that. This makes me less concerned that this place is an echo chamber where I'm just getting dopamine hits from likes for saying stuff merely because we all like the conclusion and want to rationalize it. Also, here at TMC the quality of the critiques, from those who aren't trolls, is much better than Reddit or real life or wherever else I try to have discussions. It's not efficient to debate with someone whose mind is filled with basic misconceptions about the topic at hand, like talking about orbital mechanics with a flat-earther.
 
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I dumped all my Tesla stock today. Twitter IS a dumpster fire. It's like every jerk in the world wants to show me his food or some dictator wants to spew lies. No control and the media eats it up. And his remarks about how Ukraine should remain neutral and people should vote who they want to join. He's an idiot. He learned nothing about his home country's sad history and he thinks he knows the difference between fascism and democracy. As soon as Ioniq 6 comes out my Tesla is for sale. He will be taking Tesla into the tank over a stupid app where anyone can say whatever they want. Dumbass. And FSD is still junk

unhinged? don’t “snap into a slim jim”

try taking a deep breath
 
I was on this forum on another account back in 2017. Never would have imagined this would be where we're at regarding Tesla, TSLA, averting climate change, and the state of the world in 2022...5 years later.

There's times I really wonder what Tesla, TSLA, and averting climate change would be if TSLA wasn't nerfed and manipulated so much on the stock market...and had been growing linearly alongside its revenue growth during the 2016-2020 years.
The manipulation and FUD has had one consequence that I think is going to end up being profoundly beneficial to the world.

The TSLA retail investment community has gotten a big opportunity to capture most of these gains due to the suppressed stock price. We're increasingly well connected every year due to the social media phenomenon surrounding all this, starting with the early days of the investor section of TMC where folks like Dave Lee, Farzad Mesbahi and Rob Maurer all started out, and now with Youtube and Twitter and Reddit playing even bigger roles.

Among us there seems to be an exceptionally high concentration of benevolent nerds who want to fix big problems in the world and who have the knowledge and intelligence to make big impact. We're about to collectively have a lot of capital and will need to figure out what to do with it. I think many good things are likely to come from the global TSLA investment community in the coming decades.
 
A few here on TMC comptemplating buying TSLA on margin. I strongly advise against it. Buying on margin only exaggerates the highs and the lows of TSLA.
Do I expect TSLA to reach ATH within the next six months? Yes.
Would I put myself in a position where my shares can be forceably taken from me via a margin call? Never.

Nominated for "Moderators' Choice: Posts of Particular Merit". Thank-you.
 
Looks like Wall Street’s making a few suckers out of people today.

It’s a shame for those who are (supposedly) selling today. I feel bad for you—but I won’t feel *too* bad that you’ll end up missing out on the stock of a century. That’s a burden you’ll have to carry on your own—you’ll have to live with that decision for the rest of your life.

Less than a year ago we were over $400 (split-adjusted). Nothing about Tesla has changed, except the CEO decided to waste his money on some nonsense, and some Russian a-hole decided to show everyone how tiny his winkie really is. Does that affect Tesla? Nope. I’m just as confident in them now as ever.

Folks are letting Wall Street shenanigans get into their head. A few short weeks ago everyone was talking about Tesla’s insatiable demand, and now due to some rumor which Tesla directly denied, the sky is falling?

Sorry, hedgies. Sorry, MMs. I’m not stupid. Not falling for it, and you ain’t getting my shares. Only from my cold dead hands…
 
I still think people generally misunderstand something fundamental and crucial about the risk of margin, which is that you can lose extra money on the way down, but as long as the asset price eventually increases, then the same process works in reverse. As the stock price rises, the market value of my margin equity would increase in proportion to the TSLA price, which then increases my margin credit, which enables me to buy more shares to replace the shares I sold on the way down. This is a bit of an oversimplification and one important factor is that forced sales have tax consequences; I'm locking in a huge amount of long-term capital gains this year, which is not very tax-efficient, but oh well. Except for the tax stuff, I haven't identified any reason to care about margin calls as long as I am extremely confident that the underlying asset is eventually going back up to where it was and beyond.

Let me respond to this by giving a simple example:

Let's say you own $10,000 of a stock that you are confident in. You're so confident, that you decide to use 40% margin to buy another $4k worth of the stock on margin, totaling $14k worth. Stock drops 50%, and you get a margin call. Your $14k worth of stock is now worth $7k, and you are forced to sell $2k worth. You now have $5k worth of stock, $2k of which is still on margin. Stock goes back up to it's original value, and you now have $10k worth of stock, $2k of whch is on margin. The stock is at the same price as originally, but you've lost $2k worth to margin calls.

I'm sure your situation is much more complicated, as you mentioned many margin calls on the way down, and most likely buying back on margin on the way up; however, each time you get a margin call and are forced to sell, and then buy back in at a higher price (once you have more margin to play with), you are losing a portion of your original wealth due to being forced to buy back in at higher prices than when you were forced to sell due to margin calls.

Note that this example also doesn't consider the margin interest rate your broker is charging you to borrow money as well.

You're obviously a very intelligent person and were probably aware of this, but I thought I would point it out just in case it would potentially help someone that was considering what you were saying and hadn't yet realized this point. Hope it helps someone out!
 

“Tesla sales continue to have a significant impact on the Australian car market. While Toyota's sales fell 25.5% in September, Tesla's sales continue to skyrocket, setting new records. In September, as in August, overall sales increased”
 
I dumped all my Tesla stock today. Twitter IS a dumpster fire. It's like every jerk in the world wants to show me his food or some dictator wants to spew lies. No control and the media eats it up. And his remarks about how Ukraine should remain neutral and people should vote who they want to join. He's an idiot. He learned nothing about his home country's sad history and he thinks he knows the difference between fascism and democracy. As soon as Ioniq 6 comes out my Tesla is for sale. He will be taking Tesla into the tank over a stupid app where anyone can say whatever they want. Dumbass. And FSD is still junk
Good on you! So how many did you sell; 3 or 4?