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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Let's say you own $10,000 of a stock that you are confident in. You're so confident, that you decide to use 40% margin to buy another $4k worth of the stock on margin, totaling $14k worth. Stock drops 50%, and you get a margin call. Your $14k worth of stock is now worth $7k, and you are forced to sell $2k worth. You now have $5k worth of stock, $2k of which is still on margin. Stock goes back up to it's original value, and you now have $10k worth of stock, $2k of whch is on margin. The stock is at the same price as originally, but you've lost $2k worth to margin calls.

I'm sure your situation is much more complicated, as you mentioned many margin calls on the way down, and most likely buying back on margin on the way up;
My margin situation isn't quite complicated but there is an crucial difference between what I'm doing and the scenario described, in which the investor sold for the margin call, but did not reverse the process by buying on the way up, thus ending up with a lower margin percentage than at the beginning. The investor started with $14k of stock with a $4k loan (10/14 = 71% real equity and 29% debt), but ended with $10k of stock with a $2k loan (8/10 = 80% equity, 20% debt). If the investor had been buying on the way back up, then, to a first approximation, every share could be repurchased and they would be back at $14k stock/$4k debt. I might be fundamentally misunderstanding something about how this works though.

however, each time you get a margin call and are forced to sell, and then buy back in at a higher price (once you have more margin to play with), you are losing a portion of your original wealth due to being forced to buy back in at higher prices than when you were forced to sell due to margin calls.

This effect will always be nonzero with this strategy, but I'm keeping the effect close to zero by monitoring my account daily and buying back stock quickly after the margin credit flips back into positive territory.

For example, let's imagine I had a margin deficit triggered by TSLA falling below $240 and I sold to cover at $239 and for simplicity's sake, let's imagine I did not sell extra in order to buy calls on a 30% discount. Then, if and when TSLA gets back to perhaps $241 or so, I'll have enough margin credit and will rebuy as much as I sold, or maybe approximately 2/239 = 0.8% less because the price is now higher. Losing 0.8% wouldn't be ideal, but if my prediction is correct that TSLA will increase majorly in the long run, then in the long run this drag on my returns will be greatly outweighed by the leverage advantage of being able to hold nearly twice as many shares than I otherwise could with my finite resources. I also mitigate this drag by roughly aiming to stay a bit back from the maintenance margin line to avoid tax consequences of more selling and also "pattern day trader" status, but TSLA has been so volatile that it has still caused margin calls.

If TSLA were to never recover, or worse, if the company went bankrupt and my shares were worth zero, then I'd have a problem. However, like I wrote in my earlier post, I have set this up to a risk limit such that the "problem" would be running out of excess savings and needing to go find cushy first-world paid engineering employment again while living a frugal version of the American 2022 middle-class lifestyle, which is an outcome the vast majority of humans who have ever lived would love to have as their best-case scenario. I'd also come out of the experience knowing I applied as much pressure as I could to keep this company well-capitalized and tried to make millions for charitable purposes, so I would anticipate no regrets.

There's also the fact that if Tesla does not achieve something resembling the rapid success I'm forecasting and is worth $750B or less forever, my future as a human on this planet is looking pretty sketchy no matter how much money I have. I'm not really hedged against a Tesla bankruptcy scenario because I'm not convinced a legitimate hedge actually exists. I wish so much didn't depend on this one organization, but nobody else is getting the job done fast enough and I'm stuck on this warming rock with everybody else whether I like it or not. The Holocene mass extinction and biodiversity loss are much more concerning to me than my wealth or lack thereof. For better or for worse, capital allocation decides much of what happens in this world and if I can use leverage to increase my voting power on what needs to happen, then I'm going to use that tool, especially since I expect that the leverage is very likely to make me wealthier anyway.

Note that this example also doesn't consider the margin interest rate your broker is charging you to borrow money as well.
Yes that's another important factor. Ultimately I'm playing the odds based on my firm belief that my margined TSLA position will appreciate faster than the margin interest rate.
 
The demand concern is from China, not the U.S.

This poster wrote a pretty informative piece on the situation in China where the 3/Y competitors are fiercely trying to take marketshare under cutting Tesla on price while adding more stuff.

So it's not a huge concern since 20M cars are sold in China/year and all this competition including Tesla accounts for like 5% of sales. There are plenty of cake for everyone. However I do believe people are looking at this wrong and sees the competition as a bad thing. The competition is actually giving us insight into how much they have to do just to push their cars out for revenue. All of these companies beside BYD are not making a profit. And BYD is only making a 3% profit margin while Tesla is like 5x of this(probably 8x if Tesla just sold cars in China with the gigafactory). So yes these cars are adding 5 screens, Nvidia chips, foot massagers, whatever...while Tesla is taking out sensors and doing gigacasting. Seems like there's only one company here trying to be profitable while the others are bleeding investor's cash.



This very informative piece regarding Chinese BEV competition was posted on the BEV Competition thread a few days ago along with some other relevant and interesting information.


Using the Q2 2022 data Tesla sells vehicles at an average price of $56.5k and takes a 28% GM of $15.8k.

What is phenomenal about Tesla is both its growth rate and its GM%.

However we should also recall that Tesla's growth rate is often actually slower than the corresponding growth rate of the non-Tesla BEV competition. I've previously posted the annual data regarding this (each Spring, when I do the battery & BEV stats) and a summary is below :

1665043938064.png


More recent data specifically regarding the growth of the Chinese competition is in those links for anyone who wishes to read. So whilst Tesla's growth is phenomenal so too is the non-Tesla BEV growth, even more phenomenal in fact. This means that Tesla does not have a comparative advantage in growth against the general market. It may have comparative advantage in specific sectors and against specific competitors, but not against all and not against the average.

So Tesla's real advantage is its GM% which simply blows the BEV competition out of the water. (We think .... but I've not seen anyone doing good analysis on this over time)

However Tesla's massive profitability from its GM% is not translating itself into faster growth than the others. In time it might - perhaps the others will run out of capex for expansion/transition. But in practice many of the others have near-infinite sources of capex from state sources and so it simply does not matter to them. So Tesla cannot compete them into extinction or irrelevance by way of a ROCE-war (aka Dell/HP, Dell/Compaq, etc). Some may fail, most likely the laggards in the Western legacy auto mfg industry because the West does not have strategic patience. But many others will not be allowed to fail. To an extent this does not matter to Tesla because the goal is to hasten the transition, not to emerge victorious as a company. Except that as individual shareholders we would at least like to do well out of the process, so it does matter.

Therefore we do need to pay attention to GM% and when I look at the quality of those Chinese BEV mid-market vehicles I am impressed. They have come a long way very fast and they have done so whilst growing faster than Tesla. They are making a rational decision, for a variety of reasons, to price modestly and build to scale quickly. But in time they cannot but affect Tesla's GM%.

Over the last couple years Tesla has basically put a $10k-$15k price hike on its products when looking at the model-model price evolution comparisons. Tesla had pricing power so could do that. But over time if Tesla loses pricing power then price reductions have a very big effect on profitability. Here is what happens with a $10k price drop:

1665044909064.png


That's quite a change isn't it, and that was without putting CoGS up to include any other 'quality' items in the BoM. Tesla's answer to this is that the real value lies in the software quality, not the other vehicle attributes. In other words FSD/etc.

Well the leadership team in China is well aware of the wider utility of FSD/etc software in the bot-economy and in the military. They are also aware of the need to make the next transition in China's economy and not to get stuck in the middle income trap. They have already made the transitions from : an agrarian subsistence economy to a heavy industry economy; then to an exporting offshore mfg economy; then to one also driven by internal services / consumption / and real-estate. So they are very used to navigating these big strategic transitions and they have clearly fixed on the need to move towards being the world leader in renewables manufacturing, BEV manufacturing, and computing software/hardware. That is because they are seeking full long term strategic autonomy for China.

They will not let the Chinese BEV companies fail en mase. Several will scale to become globally relevant players. And there will be at least one, probably two, comparable players in FSD/etc software. And they will do this fast. I don't know how fast but we have only to note that Huawei ain't slowing down to realise that the Chinese are absolutely focussed on achieving strategic autonomy in these areas for all sorts of rather obvious reasons.

So ........ we as investors need to be careful in our value modelling and understand the share price consequences (even before including a -ve term for Musk crassness that makes Tesla almost uninvestable for passive institutional shareholders). We should not get too carried away with either the future size of Tesla or the future profitability of Tesla. In my modelling I use the 20m cars/yr and 30% GM by 2030 as my central long term case, and it already results in substantially lower valuations than some others put forwards. Maybe I should make my central case more conservative again.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to be the pessimist who is proved incorrect. But we should be paying attention to this stuff more than we do at the moment.

Now who can put forwards a financial analysis including the GM and GM% of the Tesla BEV competition that goes back a couple years and projects forward a few years ?
 

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SMR tears into Gordon Johnson in his latest video, but Gordon said something interesting to me:

"Their car sales haven't grown in 3 quarters you know, you know, Q4 is going to be down versus Q3"

Hmm... isn't Gordon well-known for always putting impossibly high estimates for P&D and Earnings in order to try to manufacture a Tesla miss?

We need a !remind me future like in reddit so we can see what Gordon's actual Q4 estimate for deliveries actually is when he eventually releases it.

 
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I dumped all my Tesla stock today. Twitter IS a dumpster fire. It's like every jerk in the world wants to show me his food or some dictator wants to spew lies. No control and the media eats it up. And his remarks about how Ukraine should remain neutral and people should vote who they want to join. He's an idiot. He learned nothing about his home country's sad history and he thinks he knows the difference between fascism and democracy. As soon as Ioniq 6 comes out my Tesla is for sale. He will be taking Tesla into the tank over a stupid app where anyone can say whatever they want. Dumbass. And FSD is still junk

Ironically, he’s the reason the ioniq 6 exists, because no automotive manufacturer would have ever created EVs if it wasn’t of Tesla success story.
 
I dumped all my Tesla stock today. Twitter IS a dumpster fire. It's like every jerk in the world wants to show me his food or some dictator wants to spew lies. No control and the media eats it up. And his remarks about how Ukraine should remain neutral and people should vote who they want to join. He's an idiot. He learned nothing about his home country's sad history and he thinks he knows the difference between fascism and democracy. As soon as Ioniq 6 comes out my Tesla is for sale. He will be taking Tesla into the tank over a stupid app where anyone can say whatever they want. Dumbass. And FSD is still junk


At least wait till earning? But thanks for your 10 shares.

I would like to explain my rationale more on my aggressive investment strategy to get feedback from the TMC hivemind and to maybe give useful perspective for people.

Not that I'm giving advice anyway, but I want to say that I would absolutely not recommend that most people copy this strategy. I am doing things and thinking about things radically differently than most people, my situation is different than most people, and presently I have neither dependents to support nor a long-term partner whose feelings I need to consider when making investment decisions.

First of all, I should mention that the majority of my TSLA shares are safely tucked away in tax-advantaged retirement accounts with no debt or options shenanigans. I could liquidate these accounts in an emergency. The countless margin calls (literally...I have lost count of how many happened this year) are only occurring in my regular brokerage account. I checked in today and calculated that my net debt-to-equity ratio for my investment portfolio is about 40%, which is tolerable risk for my current preferences. If I were really fully leveraged on margin this D/E ratio would be much higher.

My overall personal net debt is probably much lower than most people here, because I don't own my residence and I have no student loans, medical loans or anything like that. I do have a car loan because I finally bought a Model 3 a couple weeks ago, but that debt is low-risk because it is approximately canceled out by the resale value of the car, which is quite stable compared to assets like TSLA, and the car itself is insured against catastrophic loss of value from stuff like damage and theft. I also have a few credit cards I'm maxing out, because I kept getting mail advertisement for no-strings-attached 0% interest for 18 months and I decided it would be irrational not to take advantage of that. Presumably they hope I'll just not pay the debt off at the end of the intro period.

Also, I still think people generally misunderstand something fundamental and crucial about the risk of margin, which is that you can lose extra money on the way down, but as long as the asset price eventually increases, then the same process works in reverse. As the stock price rises, the market value of my margin equity would increase in proportion to the TSLA price, which then increases my margin credit, which enables me to buy more shares to replace the shares I sold on the way down. This is a bit of an oversimplification and one important factor is that forced sales have tax consequences; I'm locking in a huge amount of long-term capital gains this year, which is not very tax-efficient, but oh well. Except for the tax stuff, I haven't identified any reason to care about margin calls as long as I am extremely confident that the underlying asset is eventually going back up to where it was and beyond.

That's why I don't complain or fret about Wall Street manipulation and misunderstanding; they are serving me a Golden Opportunity on a Silver Platter and I intend to exploit it hard. I will gladly take their capital because I have big ambitions for philanthropy projects I'd like to do when I'm older and I don't think the hedge fund managers would spend the money as well as I can. Alternatively, it's not the end of the world if my projections are totally wrong and I lose everything and end up as a washed-up 28-year-old engineer with good health, around $10k or $100k, and an employment history gap of one year in which time I put out 1000 investment analysis posts that are allegedly pretty impressive. I could do a lot worse than that, and I think I could recover quickly in such a scenario.

My overall financial risk is mitigated when I take into account other assets with less-tangible value that I can use to acquire more money in the future at the expense of the unemployed freedom I currently enjoy, such as:
  • Health
  • Engineering degree and employment history
  • Knowledge & skills about all kinds of things
  • US citizenship and passport
  • Native English language fluency
  • Boeing network (I know they would like me to come back)
  • TMC network (If I needed a job, I think probably someone here would be able and willing to help)
  • Being a white male
  • Ability to get into good grad school
  • No criminal record
  • Enjoying working with computers
  • Living in the 21st century with all its technological and infrastructural wonders like indoor plumbing, smartphones, cheap ubiquitous broadband internet, electricity, etc.
My net investment portfolio value is down approximately 80% since the peak last year. My assets as of today are definitely not enough to sustain this semi-retirement indefinitely with a 4% withdrawal rate. Back in January, I didn't anticipate this when I handed over my badge and laptop to my manager and said goodbye. However, with the way I have chosen to play this craziness, the 2022 TSLA market irrationality will actually end up being by far the best thing that ever happened to my finances, because TSLA call options have gotten so ludicrously freaking cheap (in my estimation) that the temporary annoyance we are experiencing may pay off by one or two orders of magnitude over the next two years. The more irrational the pricing error gets, the more aggressive I get. If actual bad stuff threatening the earnings explosion were happening then I would not be doing this, but I've concluded that the market doesn't understand what's coming and in many cases the market seemingly misinterprets very good news as disappointing. I mean, the stock dropped hard after Battery Day and after AI Day. Come on.

I think my risk of being wrong on TSLA/Tesla modeling is greatly mitigated by:
  • Specialization. I know a lot about this one thing and related subjects due to obsessively researching it and spending thousands of hours crunching numbers and thinking.
  • Formal educational background in electrical/computer engineering and economics and career in manufacturing/quality, which seems to be very important for deeply understanding this one thing.
  • Past history since 2017 of generally understanding Tesla the company and the EV market and making generally accurate predictions about how the business would work out. (Actually, I underestimated Tesla in 2018 when I bought most of my shares.)
  • Living in Seattle/Bellevue for the last several years and seeing the staggering growth with my own eyes
  • TMC community. I learn things here every day. I hope I've successfully communicated that I want critical feedback and y'all follow through on that. This makes me less concerned that this place is an echo chamber where I'm just getting dopamine hits from likes for saying stuff merely because we all like the conclusion and want to rationalize it. Also, here at TMC the quality of the critiques, from those who aren't trolls, is much better than Reddit or real life or wherever else I try to have discussions. It's not efficient to debate with someone whose mind is filled with basic misconceptions about the topic at hand, like talking about orbital mechanics with a flat-earther.

I envy your position. Well thought out risk management and bet on a great company with such amazing potential. Keep us posted
 
I would like to explain my rationale more on my aggressive investment strategy to get feedback from the TMC hivemind and to maybe give useful perspective for people.

Not that I'm giving advice anyway, but I want to say that I would absolutely not recommend that most people copy this strategy. I am doing things and thinking about things radically differently than most people, my situation is different than most people, and presently I have neither dependents to support nor a long-term partner whose feelings I need to consider when making investment decisions.

First of all, I should mention that the majority of my TSLA shares are safely tucked away in tax-advantaged retirement accounts with no debt or options shenanigans. I could liquidate these accounts in an emergency. The countless margin calls (literally...I have lost count of how many happened this year) are only occurring in my regular brokerage account. I checked in today and calculated that my net debt-to-equity ratio for my investment portfolio is about 40%, which is tolerable risk for my current preferences. If I were really fully leveraged on margin this D/E ratio would be much higher.

My overall personal net debt is probably much lower than most people here, because I don't own my residence and I have no student loans, medical loans or anything like that. I do have a car loan because I finally bought a Model 3 a couple weeks ago, but that debt is low-risk because it is approximately canceled out by the resale value of the car, which is quite stable compared to assets like TSLA, and the car itself is insured against catastrophic loss of value from stuff like damage and theft. I also have a few credit cards I'm maxing out, because I kept getting mail advertisement for no-strings-attached 0% interest for 18 months and I decided it would be irrational not to take advantage of that. Presumably they hope I'll just not pay the debt off at the end of the intro period.

Also, I still think people generally misunderstand something fundamental and crucial about the risk of margin, which is that you can lose extra money on the way down, but as long as the asset price eventually increases, then the same process works in reverse. As the stock price rises, the market value of my margin equity would increase in proportion to the TSLA price, which then increases my margin credit, which enables me to buy more shares to replace the shares I sold on the way down. This is a bit of an oversimplification and one important factor is that forced sales have tax consequences; I'm locking in a huge amount of long-term capital gains this year, which is not very tax-efficient, but oh well. Except for the tax stuff, I haven't identified any reason to care about margin calls as long as I am extremely confident that the underlying asset is eventually going back up to where it was and beyond.

That's why I don't complain or fret about Wall Street manipulation and misunderstanding; they are serving me a Golden Opportunity on a Silver Platter and I intend to exploit it hard. I will gladly take their capital because I have big ambitions for philanthropy projects I'd like to do when I'm older and I don't think the hedge fund managers would spend the money as well as I can. Alternatively, it's not the end of the world if my projections are totally wrong and I lose everything and end up as a washed-up 28-year-old engineer with good health, around $10k or $100k, and an employment history gap of one year in which time I put out 1000 investment analysis posts that are allegedly pretty impressive. I could do a lot worse than that, and I think I could recover quickly in such a scenario.

My overall financial risk is mitigated when I take into account other assets with less-tangible value that I can use to acquire more money in the future at the expense of the unemployed freedom I currently enjoy, such as:
  • Health
  • Engineering degree and employment history
  • Knowledge & skills about all kinds of things
  • US citizenship and passport
  • Native English language fluency
  • Boeing network (I know they would like me to come back)
  • TMC network (If I needed a job, I think probably someone here would be able and willing to help)
  • Being a white male
  • Ability to get into good grad school
  • No criminal record
  • Enjoying working with computers
  • Living in the 21st century with all its technological and infrastructural wonders like indoor plumbing, smartphones, cheap ubiquitous broadband internet, electricity, etc.
My net investment portfolio value is down approximately 80% since the peak last year. My assets as of today are definitely not enough to sustain this semi-retirement indefinitely with a 4% withdrawal rate. Back in January, I didn't anticipate this when I handed over my badge and laptop to my manager and said goodbye. However, with the way I have chosen to play this craziness, the 2022 TSLA market irrationality will actually end up being by far the best thing that ever happened to my finances, because TSLA call options have gotten so ludicrously freaking cheap (in my estimation) that the temporary annoyance we are experiencing may pay off by one or two orders of magnitude over the next two years. The more irrational the pricing error gets, the more aggressive I get. If actual bad stuff threatening the earnings explosion were happening then I would not be doing this, but I've concluded that the market doesn't understand what's coming and in many cases the market seemingly misinterprets very good news as disappointing. I mean, the stock dropped hard after Battery Day and after AI Day. Come on.

I think my risk of being wrong on TSLA/Tesla modeling is greatly mitigated by:
  • Specialization. I know a lot about this one thing and related subjects due to obsessively researching it and spending thousands of hours crunching numbers and thinking.
  • Formal educational background in electrical/computer engineering and economics and career in manufacturing/quality, which seems to be very important for deeply understanding this one thing.
  • Past history since 2017 of generally understanding Tesla the company and the EV market and making generally accurate predictions about how the business would work out. (Actually, I underestimated Tesla in 2018 when I bought most of my shares.)
  • Living in Seattle/Bellevue for the last several years and seeing the staggering growth with my own eyes
  • TMC community. I learn things here every day. I hope I've successfully communicated that I want critical feedback and y'all follow through on that. This makes me less concerned that this place is an echo chamber where I'm just getting dopamine hits from likes for saying stuff merely because we all like the conclusion and want to rationalize it. Also, here at TMC the quality of the critiques, from those who aren't trolls, is much better than Reddit or real life or wherever else I try to have discussions. It's not efficient to debate with someone whose mind is filled with basic misconceptions about the topic at hand, like talking about orbital mechanics with a flat-earther.

The fun part is going to the moon while leveraging. The less fun part is the collapse to -90% or more on the way down. But if it doesn’t make you lose sleep, you can go for it as long as you don’t need that money in the near term and if it’s only retirement/philanthropy money anyway. Good luck!
 
I have let the AI day sink in a bit. Regarding Optimus, I am now even more bullish than before. What Tesla has done is so different than anyone else. Tesla are serious about their development, the rest are just playing at cute demos.

(My background: I have studied and worked with Mechatronics, Mechatronic Design, various courses in control theory, sensor fusion, SLAM, probabilistic robotics, machine learning, neural networks etc. I am far from an expert(Tesla would not hire me) and have not worked with this for the last few years, but I like to follow the progress in the field and understood like 90% of AI day)

So what have Tesla done with Optimus? Imo executed a very sensible plan, and executed it very well.

First they did a quick and dirty solution, see how far they get could before they find any holes in their plan. Used a lot of off the shelf stuff, put it together, got it to walk. Ported the occupancy network from the FSD to the Robot reference frame, added a navigation SLAM(simultaneous localization and mapping), did a quick and dirty segmentation of the camera images. Then they did a list of subtasks such as locomotion, picking up object, manipulating objects and trained them for various changes in the enviroment and objects. Got that to work pretty damned well, maybe even close to state of the art for object manipulation for bipedal robots.

So this was the prototype. Well done. Really well done.

Then they did their first alpha version of the robot. Inhouse everything, choosing parts cleverly with an optimization algorithm optimizing for cost, scability and performance. Used a database of actuators, used simulation to calculate forces and optimized the *sugar* of it. This is a the first serious attempt at actually making a well designed robot, the first was just the quick and dirty sketch. Here they will try to do it right and see where their model fails, what issues arises, understand what the actual use cases will be etc. Gather more data for the next iteration of the robot.

This version didn't walk yet, that was a few weeks away, but when it does I assume it will be a lot less shaky and a lot closer to Atlas in its smoothness and agility. Maybe not all the way there, but the difference will be a lot smaller. They will make a lot more of these maybe hundreds of robots used in many places for many tasks. Just to better see where their assumptions failed, what needs to be fixed. The learnings from this project will be used for the first mass scale robot.

Version 3, which might be ready in 6months and programmed to be better than version 2 in another 3 months is the one where all the kinks are worked out. This one will be manufactured in the thousands if not more. I expect it around summer 2023!

So the strategy for the hardware I give them 10/10. It's a sensible approach and they are executing it well.

As for software they have split the problem into a stack of different layers that each can be improved without breaking the the rest. They just need to make sure the interface between the layers are set, then each team can optimize the *sugar* out of each layer.

First layer is perception. They use an occupancy network to see where there is free space for the robot to move in. Looks good, maybe NERFs will improve this in the future.

They use some features and descriptors for SLAM and navigation, probably these are learnt by a neural network and can be improved.

They showed some segmentation of the camera image where the robot, the water can, the plant etc had different colors. This can be improved with more data and probably go to 3D and even add motion flow to it over time to make it 4D. Like FSD has evolved, this will evolve over time.

They showed a list of actions that a human had taught it how to do, how the human adds these and how they are learnt can be improved. Give it a few more months and the box of actions to chose from will be even larger and the motions will be more efficient and robust for more objects etc. Easy to improve.

They showed a simulation where the robot can learn basic tasks many times faster than it can in real life. By adding lots of noise to simulation, the robot will learn to adapt to the model not perfectly matching the real world and actually be useful for real world application. Also they will gather tons of real world data for the robot to learn from and to improve the simulation.

Basically the software is already close to feature complete and can easily be improved in each aspect. I give them 10/10 for the software approach and execution.

So what did the robot actually do? It moved a box in an office, it grab a water can and watered a plant, it moved some metal bars in a factory. WOW! This was the most impressive thing. It already did useful things. Maybe not well, but good enough and real stuff. I give the results 10/10 for being so early in the project.

Give it some time and they will add more capability and also improve the speed of which new capability is added. It will go from 0, to 1tasks to 3tasks(that they showed), to 10 tasks to 100tasks to 1000 tasks etc. Every few months they will improve the number of tasks exponetially.

So the bad news? There will be setbacks along the way. Two steps forwards, one step back. They will realize that their current stack is not capable of doing task X and need to add complexity that will break previous tasks. They will upgrade the hardware and the software will perform worse for a while before it performs better. This is to be expected. There will be many times where the bears will be laughing, but when you look back over a few months the progress will be staggering.

TLDR, I am super bullish on Optimus. Strategy and execution so far is 10/10. They have set themselves up to be able to iterate and improve very rapidly and already they are very close to feature complete. Give it another year and it will blow everyones' minds.
 
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SMR tears into Gordon Johnson in his latest video, but Gordon said something interesting to me:

"Their car sales haven't grown in 3 quarters you know, you know, Q4 is going to be down versus Q3"
Is there some further context? Or are we talking interesting from a psychological diagnosis point of view?
Q3 2022 was higher than Q1 2022 and Q2 2022...
And Q4 2021
And Q3 2021
And Q2 2021
In fact, it was an all time high...
 
Is there some further context? Or are we talking interesting from a psychological diagnosis point of view?
Q3 2022 was higher than Q1 2022 and Q2 2022...
And Q4 2021
And Q3 2021
And Q2 2021
In fact, it was an all time high...
I didn’t watch the video but GJ seems to focus on the silly metric of EV market share so it fits his narrative rather than # of cars or total auto market share.
 
I didn’t watch the video but GJ seems to focus on the silly metric of EV market share so it fits his narrative rather than # of cars or total auto market share.
Tesla's market share of blue cars has dropped significantly but with regard to the market share of white cars . . .they're killing it.

Tesla's market share of all global vehicle sales . . .
. . in 2021 = 1.3%
. . in 2022 ~ 1.9% (+46% growth)

The 1.9% is my estimate; it could be higher since many of the legacy auto companies are struggling in 2022.
 
Tesla's market share of blue cars has dropped significantly but with regard to the market share of white cars . . .they're killing it.

Tesla's market share of all global vehicle sales . . .
. . in 2021 = 1.3%
. . in 2022 ~ 1.9% (+46% growth)

The 1.9% is my estimate; it could be higher since many of the legacy auto companies are struggling in 2022.
Indeed.
Zooming out a step (from GJ's so called point), when does Tesla EV market share growth matter? If the EV market grows 50% YoY, and Tesla's percentage of it stays constant, Tesla is growing at 50% YoY.
But, one might say, that means all the other companies are growing just as much, Tesla is not special. Not so! Most of the other manufacturing capacity is currently ICE. So, while Tesla is growing 50% per year in this scenario, the others are merely converting ICE to EV and losing total vehicle share (unless the total market is growing faster than new EV companies).
 
Is there some further context? Or are we talking interesting from a psychological diagnosis point of view?
Q3 2022 was higher than Q1 2022 and Q2 2022...
And Q4 2021
And Q3 2021
And Q2 2021
In fact, it was an all time high...

Haha, agreed. I guess I wasn't clear in hinting that, historically, we have consistently seen Gordon Johnson's estimates for P&D and earnings to be well OVER consensus, not below consensus. The speculation has always been that the reason for this was to inflate consensus estimates in an attempt to manufacture a Tesla miss, causing SP to drop. I found it interesting that in this video he's now specifically saying he expects LESS deliveries in Q4, because I believe that as the end of the year nears and estimates for deliveries come in, Gordon will most likely be at the very high end of estimates once again, invalidating what he said in this video.
 
Tesla's market share of blue cars has dropped significantly but with regard to the market share of white cars . . .they're killing it.

Tesla's market share of all global vehicle sales . . .
. . in 2021 = 1.3%
. . in 2022 ~ 1.9% (+46% growth)

The 1.9% is my estimate; it could be higher since many of the legacy auto companies are struggling in 2022.

Revenue share is probably double that number, and profit share is probably double *that* number…
 
Jobless claims ‘missed’, came in a bit higher than expected, indicating a weakening of the labor market. Futures doing better.

The whole thing is a joke. This is a notoriously volatile number that routinely gets revised five to ten percent. The idea that a strong number would have precipitated another ugly red day is ridiculous, but this is where we are at right now.

Tomorrow monthly numbers. At least a little more solid, but again routinely revised up and down.

One would think that a record ER coming up might have some impact here, but I guess we have to ask Twitter.