Thanks for bringing some more positivity into this thread. It was badly needed.
Last edited:
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
Thanks for bringing some more positivity into this thread. It was badly needed.
Uhhhh you read the terms of the deal right?
Elon's not on the hook for the banks portion of the debt funding. It's contractually written out that the deal is pending those banks to pull through on their end. Court can't force Elon to pony up the amount of the banks were contractually forced to come up with.
The judge could force the banks to do an audit to prove they can't provide the debt financing which would likely delay the deal closing. If the audit proves they banks can't get funding, the deal is off completely
But the banks can't just say "We don't want to do it anymore" and walk away leaving Elon on the hook.
Excellent post. I wish Tesla could filter out fake bitching and those who do it.
Gary is wrong about this. The value of a social media platform is in its user base. You can't build that overnight. Elon is right about the Twitter deal accelerating his plans. He will have an immediate user base for his new ideas that would otherwise take years to build up.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I think he has what he needs already, but agree this will weigh on TSLA until this is known for sure. Just the uncertainty weighs on the stock. I don't know what Elon's fantasy is with Twitter, but I think he can still walk away from the deal for a $1B fee, right?
I would scream for joy if he paid the $1B, walked, and reinvested everything else back into TSLA. I might even stop being frustrated with him.
Nope. Contract allows twitter to sue for specific performance (ie force Elon to buy at full price)- which they are. the 1B isn't a "anybody can just quit the deal any time for no reason" thing-- it's more of a "If one side is failing to close AND the side that is ready to close decided they no longer wants the deal anyway, they can send the party failing to close a 1 billion dollar bill for breaking the deal"--but it's optional, only choosable by the side that IS ready/willing to close, and only makes sense if the "ready" party no longer wants the deal.... in this case twitter still WANTS the deal (and is ready and willing to close) so instead they are suing for specific performance which the merger explicitly allows for.
Actually they court CAN force him to do that. And HAS done that, even with financing falling through, in previous cases where there was evidence the financing fell through due to some action on the part of the buyer- which you can easily make a case for here.
THAT said- the banks are on the hook for the financing in the agreement too-- even if they can't resell it- so they have no easy out either.
Again I'd encourage detailed discussion the deal go here instead:
Elon & Twitter
Hate to say it 🙄, but, this is the "Elon and Twitter" thread. I think there are other threads more appropriate for bashing/defending Tesla. 😏 Threads where Twitter discussions are often directed to this thread. 🤷♂️
teslamotorsclub.com
Last edited:
I said the same way back when Google bought Youtube for 1.6billion. Seemed like you could do a lot to attract users for that much money. In fairness to me I was just out of HS, but I was wrong.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Tesla has been trying to reduce wait times for something like two years now, by raising prices which has created the highest profit margins of any high-volume car maker. The wait times are a real problem for Tesla, especially from a customer satisfaction perspective, but also from a pricing perspective. It's a given that at some point their strategy of raising prices to reduce customer wait times, while increasing production constantly, will eventually successfully balance supply with demand. It's also likely that, as production continues to increase, prices will be adjusted as necessary to keep supply and demand as balanced as possible. Yes, that means adjusting prices lower to prevent the ever-increasing production from filling up parking lots.
That should be as easy to understand as controlling a car's throttle to maintain a steady speed when driving through rolling terrain. Because new car buyers are quite price sensitive - a lowered price is a powerful incentive to take the plunge while a higher price can serve to procrastinate buying. Yet there are still people saying there could be a demand problem. With the highest margins of any high-volume automaker, claims like this only serve to identify people who do not understand what they are talking about. If signs are pointing to Tesla having a "demand problem" then legacy auto has had a "demand problem" since the 1960's (as all those cars on dealership lots prove). It's shocking how many people don't understand such basic concepts and yet they are arrogant enough to call themselves "analysts".
I can almost guarantee that Tesla is increasing production so rapidly they will announce price cuts or incentives by the end of the year. That's a good thing as it will make EV's a viable option for a much wider swath of the motoring public. This is a given and should surprise no one. Yet analysts are guaranteed to call it a demand problem and act like it's a surprise and a reason to downgrade Tesla. I don't feed the bears and I don't listen to idiots. More EV's are a good thing. Tesla's goal is to flood the world with so many EV's, and at such low prices, that only people with more money than brains will buy ICE cars.
A common thread here is that everyone is a genius investor when the stock goes up and Elons tweets and Wall street are the cause of the stock going down. Genius investors would have taken this into account. Bernard Baruch’s rules apply here, if you are an investor.
Huh. Don't know what just happened to the Accountants post, but I was just behind him in posting this:
Gotta think this is the 9000
*Edit: Well, that's interesting. Looks like IDRA pulled their video? It was a 2 minute long vid showing assembly and operation (movement) of a gigapress. I couldn't see any labeling that would indicate the size, but it just looks even bigger than prior units, and not sure why they would create a video that duplicates prior postings.
*2nd edit - looking at IDRA YouTube channel, what I saw today looks like a recut of video material they posted previously. I wasn't aware they had posted Gigapress 9000 stuff before.
*Edit: Well, that's interesting. Looks like IDRA pulled their video? It was a 2 minute long vid showing assembly and operation (movement) of a gigapress. I couldn't see any labeling that would indicate the size, but it just looks even bigger than prior units, and not sure why they would create a video that duplicates prior postings.
*2nd edit - looking at IDRA YouTube channel, what I saw today looks like a recut of video material they posted previously. I wasn't aware they had posted Gigapress 9000 stuff before.
Last edited:
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
That's true. And the better Elon can monetize that user base, the more valuable that makes Twitter to him. In other words, Twitter is worth more to Elon than it is to, for example, Jeff Bezos.
I also think that Elon's desire to make the world a better place plays into the value he sees in Twitter.
I think I see a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.
Gigapress
Trying to be less wrong
I came across this executive summary of the clean vehicle credit aspects of the Inflation Reduction Act. I'm bookmarking this for reference because it's a lot easier to read and understand than the actual law, which is written in legalese instead of English.
Where did those high expectations come from? I'd be interested in seeing the FSD take rate relative to Elon's tweets/comments and grandiose claims, because I imagine most current Beta testers originate from a time when the narrative was Level 5 robotaxis right around the corner, coast-to-coast summon including full self-charging along the way, soon your car will drive around and earn $$$ while you're sleeping or at work, the person is is the driver's seat only for legal reasons, blablabla.
Buying FSD with the expectation of Beta testing is a recent development. In the many years prior, people were being sold an expectation of generalized Robotaxis that were on the verge of realization and not that FSD is a Level 2 ADAS that requires constant driver supervision because it could and still will do the wrong thing at the worst time -- I think it's hard to blame people for being perturbed.
We can debate Elon's wording in these tweets/comments and whether he actually meant what people interpreted them as, but the expectations were set regardless and disappointment was almost guaranteed.
Great Move! Hyundai is morally superior in every way. /s
Here is a single example of their ethical standards:
Take a long look at Chaebol standards. Then compare with Elon Musk's foibles.
Do you really want to make your choice because E. Musk is demonstrably weird in multiple ways? Does he do thinks that so offend that you want to ignore the benefits.
Not for one minute do I want to ignore the failings of our CEO. A close look at every other choice is very likely to reveal the same, or much worse.
For heaven's sake Never ever buy a VW Group product especially Porsche;
Don't buy a US product either after the Japanese internment camps, nuclear bombs and so many other things.
Whatever you do don't look carefully at any other leader than Elon Musk!/s
We probably know Elon far more closely than we have any other leader. He does not lie to us, but he shares thoughts he really has not thought out. He's overly optimistic.
So, Congratulations. You choose a product from a company that you know next nothing about. Since you're buying a Hyundai you probably want stay in their famous resort:
Hyundai Soo Resort Hoengseong. You'll find them on Booking.com.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
certainly lighter volume day.. we are running at 84%, 80%, and 72% of the volume (as of now) relative to Wednesday, Tuesday, and Monday's volumes respectively. A lighter volume day certainly and more inline with last Friday's volumes.
Thank you for sharing as this is simple and easy to read off the table. Is there such a reference for other homeowner credit for solar, heat pump HVAC/water heater, etc that you found?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Troy tracks take rate for new car purchases here:
Through Q2 2022 he has total NA FSD buyers (the only place FSDb is available) at 329,360... of those since the change in FSD description to be clearly only promising L2 city streets (roughly March 2019) we have a little under 60,000 buyers.
So the vast majority came after that change.
In fact the first 2 quarters alone after the change we see more buyers than in the 2.5 years prior.
This make sense because even if overall take rate % has dropped (and it has) it's a percentage of a much larger # of total cars sold.
Note: I'm just going by what the buyer is actually promised when buying FSD, not whatever random "I think probably maybe..." stuff Elon tweeted on any given date.
Second note: Troy doesn't track post-car-purchase FSD buying--- nor subscriptions which didn't even exist after the change, so the % of pre/post L2 change is probably even larger in favor of the post-change folks.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
I realize that the entire industry is struggling to understand the nuances of the IRA, as well as many on TMC in this thread...But the cynic in me looks at legacy auto's track record and the current administration's anti-Tesla/pro union stance and am wondering how likely it is that they are able to influence these terms and calculations to include legacy auto AND exclude Tesla? Has anyone weighed in on the feasibility of this probable endeavor?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Nice!
One of my favorite questions to answer is, "How long does it take to charge?".
I generally say, "I don't know" and wait for them to look at me in a confused manner. Then I explain I just plug it in when I get home and the next time I look at it, it's full again and I can see their confusion turn to understanding or even excitement as I confirm it's not a problem.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
