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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Yes I feel the agony, there’s a lot of noise and the CEO of our company gets a lot of blame, warranted or not. I’m reading the stock is testing two year lows. So I checked the two year performance for most companies in my ticker list:
MSFT +12%
GOOG +7,5%
NFLX -43%
VLKAF +1,9%
NIO -76%
GM -2%
NVDA +17%
CRSP -45%
EDIT -57%
QS -48%
AMZN -38%
LCID +25%
F +70%
TSLA +37%

Not too shabby, the outlier here is Ford, but I’m not planning to swap my position any time soon.

Cheers!
 
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Me myself, I want to make lame comments, jokes and rarely post some little news tidbit before someone else does. I'm far from the most helpful contributing member here, but I do love reading posts about the things tesla is doing, all the latest news tidbits about cars, powerwalls, optimus, batteries, production numbers, demand, profits, growth expectations, subsidies, solar roofs, the list goes on and on. Its disheartening, but do expect most posts here to revolve around Elon's political comments, twitter stuff, infighting between members and other crap until the stock goes up again.
Yes those are the more useful posts here. Even some of the tweets about what is going on in China or new developments are good to read about too. I don't care too much abotu the Spacex and optimus stuff but a lot of the stuff here is good. My point where I started my post was, you can only really talk about those topics so much and go around in circles until it becomes a we've already talked about this situation. This twitter, infighting, stock dropping thing is the new thing to talk about and to be honest it's a very divisive thing so there is going to be lots of chatter about it.

Yes I feel the agony, there’s a lot of noise and the CEO of our company gets a lot of blame, warranted or not. I’m reading the stock is testing two year lows. So I checked the two year performance for most companies in my ticker list:
MSFT +12%
GOOG +7,5%
NFLX -43%
VLKAF +1,9%
NIO -76%
GM -2%
NVDA +17%
CRSP -45%
EDIT -57%
QS -48%
AMZN -38%
LCID +25%
F +70%
TSLA +37%

The outlier here is Ford, but I’m not planning to swap my position any time soon.

Cheers!
We are reaching a period where TSLA broke out 2 years ago. Give it another 2 weeks (November 27) and that +37 will end up being flat or negative. If we zoom out to January 2021 which is about 22 months ago, we are down 30%. Redo the list at the end of November and lets see where we end up.
 
Elon is increasing availability of existing shares, that is true. That is why the price drops. However, if enough buyers see opportunity and buy those shares, the price will recover.

Since new shares are not becoming available, you still own the same percentage of Tesla as before, therefore there is no dilution.

I don’t see TSLA’s performance Thursday as “bearish” for the stock, necessarily.

If Elon was selling, that explains the capped rise (although I’ll take up 7% over the freefall we’ve been getting lately).

Even if Elon was not selling, there’s obviously a reason for buyers to wait until they’re sure Elon’s done selling. We don’t even know and we would know better than anyone in the market.

Once we get an all clear, I think the stock will slowly start moving back toward the fundamentals. As Q4 results start becoming clear, people will realize more and more that Tesla is well positioned financially for the current economy and will start recovering.

NVDA and AMZN are recovering faster now, but remember that both of these companies have more headwinds to overcome come Q4 results to justify their PE ratios. Recall Amazon posted some poor forward guidance. Tesla will show high growth and excellent numbers which will help justify a higher PE ratio, and with EPS growing rapidly over the next year—even if margins come down slightly—PE will naturally drop anyway.

Plus, given that the market is forward-looking (albeit not very far forward-looking), growth stocks should start recovering in general as interest rate hikes are paused and, hopefully, eventually come back down.

There’s just a lot of fear, panic, and noise right now centered around Tesla. (Can’t blame the market for that).

It is a mystery to me that Elon’s stated life goals, sustainability and multi-planetary life, seem to have taken a back seat to his current project.

Maybe in some respects that is a bullish sign that things at SpaceX and Tesla are on cruise control and under control. In some respects it helps reduce the market’s key man risk perspective if they see Tesla killing it even while Elon is focused elsewhere.

I’ve often worried about Elon’s oversized ownership in available TSLA shares. It puts the stock price too strongly in one person’s hands. The silver lining in Elon’s selling is that it helps diversify ownership of TSLA.

Once your machine is well-oiled, do you need a guy walking around and adding more oil to the machines on a daily basis?

Interesting how someone selling 0.5% of TSLA float makes the stock drops 20%.
 
With Elon selling shares to fund Twitter, aren’t we as - Tesla Shareholders funding this whole thing? isn’t this essentially diluting the market with “new” shares. I don’t really see the difference if Tesla were to do a finance round.

Elon sells shares that already exist. His shares are now just in other hands.
No new shares are created. Hence, there is no dilution from these transactions.

There might even be some positive effect from Elon selling shares, as it should affect the free float and force passive funds to buy Tesla shares:

Definition of free float:
Free float refers to the shares of a company that can be publicly traded and are not restricted (i.e., held by insiders).
In other words, the term describes the number of shares available to the public for trading in the secondary market.

Per Yahoo Finance: Tesla outstanding shares: 3.16B | of which free float: 2.64 B

Each share Elon sells should increase the free float of Tesla (while outstanding shares do not change).
The free float is essential for some index weight calculations, such as the S&P 500.
Hence, Elon selling shares increase the free float, resulting in Tesla gaining a higher weight in some indexes.
A higher weight in the index forces passive funds to buy more Tesla shares.

Please feel free to add to my argument if someone has detailed knowledge of the topic.
 
Interesting how someone selling 0.5% of TSLA float makes the stock drops 20%.
It’s not just his selling. It’s amplified by the short term traders who short the stock or front run it, which greatly magnifies the amplitude of the change.

But it works in both directions, I’ve found. When there’s a reversal (maybe yesterday was the start of it) the movement back up gets amplified as well. Hence a high beta stock (lots of options players in TSLA).

If I had to guess, I would say Elon finished his selling yesterday afternoon. No confirmation from Elon that he’s done yet so maybe he’s got one more day, but to be honest for some reason us Tesla investors have received no love from him lately so I’m not depending on a “done selling” Tweet.

Hopefully with the turnaround, buying pressure will overwhelm his sale if he has more. TSLA is a good buy now, obviously.

Since Tesla has talked about doing a buyback, I’m not sure why they didn’t just buy $5B in shares directly from Elon yesterday. Would have avoided a lot of the drama. Maybe Tesla wants to hold off and save extra cash just so they can see how things go during the economic slowdown. I suspect they never want to be in a cash-strapped position again.

One thing’s for sure. I’m glad Tesla paid off their loans ASAP—leaves them in a much stronger position now!
 
Anyone know if gates still hold shorts position?

Either way, current prices are a screaming buy.. let’s burn some shorts
He emailed me yesterday (From: billy@microsoft-veterans dot com) and said he closed his short position around lunchtime.

More seriously, we may find out, we may not. However, lots of people have been playing the down market. This has been historically one of the longer, more intense down markets. Almost a year of pain for those of us who stayed long.

I suppose it was foolish to believe that a company’s performance would outweigh macro forces. I learned my lesson. But let’s hope this is the start of an upswing in the markets again. Once the Elodrama recedes, I suspect Tesla’s performance will help it grow faster than most other stocks.

Remember, despite everything going on, even Elon going full Twitty, Tesla the company is kicking names and taking a**. In the end that’s what will determine the stock price.
 
It used to be just funny ...

image.png


... now you understand.

I've always loved this illustration, but I never expected the CEO of TSLA to be the one digging those ditches and holes personally. :confused:
 
Been catching up on this thread for 48 hours. And that is only reading the ~15+ liked posts which means I have missed a lot....

Halfway through Rob's video, he shows a good deal of concern about the Chinese insurance bonus. He suggests that there will be long term demand concern but the bonus only lasts 1-2 months. My assumption is that Tesla are not concerned about demand going into next year due to inflation reduction bill. They can export from Shanghai to US if needed.

+

Car makers slam Euro 7 2025 emissions proposals | Autocar
 
The stock performance is in line with the macros, unless you mean just in the last week. Literally, it is in an orderly line.

In the last 12 months a 10% change in the S&P has been correlated with a 30% change in TSLA. TSLA has never been above $350 without the S&P 500 being at least 4,470, which is 14% higher than today's 3,920.

View attachment 873261
ting
The chart below shows TSLA's performance relative to the expectation based on the macro using the trendline equation from the first scatter plot.

  • 90% of the time, the actual TSLA price was within +/- $42 of the expectation from the trend line
    • 50% of the time, within just +/- $18

  • TSLA's performance relative to its beta has generally been improving over the last 12 months, as shown by the upward slope on the trendline. Surprisingly, this improvement began in April, which was when Elon came public with his intention to purchase Twitter.

View attachment 873281
Your regression equation computes the S&P500 given TSLA. Your graph of "Prediction Error" seems to be the "error" in the S&P500 price, not the "error" in TSLA's price. If I'm right about that it means an upward trending line shows that the TSLA beta has been deteriorating, not improving. So your conclusions are the exact opposite of what your data shows. Or did I get it wrong because you used the inverse equation (that wasn't presented) to calculate TSLA's expected price to generate the lower chart?
 
I know EM not selling premarket. What up with the red in a sea of green?

Already have 2 million in volume. Anyone see headlines?
No news I can see and I've been looking.

Are we sure he hasn't been selling in pre-market? I thought someone mentioned a couple of days ago that some of the prices on the Form 4's would have been pre-market. I recall similar drops happening in pre-market previously this week, particularly on Tuesday where it dropped hard 30 minutes before open. Could have been Elon's broker testing out some sales in pre-market but wouldn't make much sense. Sizeable selling blocks still coming through.
 
well, yes, in exchange for part of Tesla. The point I am trying to make is that Elon and Tesla are so intertwined. Elon has so many shares and he would have kept them, were it not for Twitter. Selling the shares on the open market practically increasing the float. Now the float of tradable shares increased. Isn’t that kind of the same as diluting the market?

Just a thought. Perhaps I am seeing it all wrong.

The shares Elon sells are already counted when measuring ownership percentages. And since that stays the same whether Elon holds them or someone else holds them, the stock is not diluted by insider seller. Because, if a dividend were announced, those shares will get paid, whether or not Elon still owned them. The only thing that's changed is who owns the shares.
 
Your regression equation computes the S&P500 given TSLA. Your graph of "Prediction Error" seems to be the "error" in the S&P500 price, not the "error" in TSLA's price. If I'm right about that it means an upward trending line shows that the TSLA beta has been deteriorating, not improving. So your conclusions are the exact opposite of what your data shows. Or did I get it wrong because you used the inverse equation (that wasn't presented) to calculate TSLA's expected price to generate the lower chart?
Yes I inverted the equation for the second chart.

I can see now that that was a confusing way of presenting the data. I’ll fix that if I put this stuff in a blog article.
 
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I know EM not selling premarket. What up with the red in a sea of green?

Already have 2 million in volume. Anyone see headlines?
Looking at the open interest, I would guess that Hedgies are targeting >187.50 <190.00 close today. Although Max Pain is 197.50, they seem to prefer to avoid paying-out on calls as much as possible the last months - I guess they know it's going to pop one of these days and prefer to hold the shares

Not an advice

(BTW, I "only" see 1M volume on WeBull??)

1668174946848.png
 
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