Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Usain]

This just in, the latest from fraudsumer reports:

Electric vehicles are not reliable — yet: Consumer Reports

Electric vehicles and pickups are the least reliable vehicles sold in America, whereas hybrids and sedans are the most reliable, according to Consumer Reports 2022 Annual Auto Reliability survey.

finance.yahoo.com

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Toyota reliablity:

Toyota Has Fix for bZ4X EV Wheel Problem, Will Replace Wheels and Bolts

Because of problematic wheels that could fall off, Toyota recalled 258 units of the new model in June. Several hundred Subaru Solterra EVs that hadn't gone out to buyers yet were also involved.

www.caranddriver.com

Consumer Reports is using an outdated methodology to gauge reliability. They make a tacit admission to this in the October edition of the magazine.

The October 2022 edition of Consumer Reports has the following letter to the editor with a response:

If EVs are simpler design and have fewer [moving] parts, why do they cost more than complex gas-powered vehicles? And why doesn't the simpler design translate to the highest reliability ratings? -John Kosa, Minneapolis

EDITORS NOTE The cost of an EV's lithium-ion battery is the biggest factor. According to the Institute for Energy Research, the average cost for each kWh of battery capacity is about $160. That means that for an EV with an 80-KWh battery, the battery alone costs $12,800. The EV revolution is relatively new, with automakers investing heavily in new technologies and manufacturing facilities. In time those costs will be spread over more models and should go down. In terms of reliability, most trouble spots we see in our Annual Surveys are attributable to infotainment systems and other ancillary items rather than EV powertrains.

When most people think about reliability of an automobile, they are thinking about how often it will break down. But Consumer Reports is putting a software glitch on the same level as an engine that overheats and leaves you stranded.

 

[Usain]

This just in, the latest from fraudsumer reports:

Electric vehicles are not reliable — yet: Consumer Reports

Electric vehicles and pickups are the least reliable vehicles sold in America, whereas hybrids and sedans are the most reliable, according to Consumer Reports 2022 Annual Auto Reliability survey.

finance.yahoo.com

View attachment 874989

View attachment 874991

Toyota reliablity:

Toyota Has Fix for bZ4X EV Wheel Problem, Will Replace Wheels and Bolts

Because of problematic wheels that could fall off, Toyota recalled 258 units of the new model in June. Several hundred Subaru Solterra EVs that hadn't gone out to buyers yet were also involved.

www.caranddriver.com

I wish Consumer Reports would directly answer how it's possible that Tesla ranks near the bottom in reliability, but it consistently ranks number one in customer satisfaction? Again, something is wrong with CR's methodology.

 

[Knightshade]

I wish Consumer Reports would directly answer how it's possible that Tesla ranks near the bottom in reliability, but it consistently ranks number one in customer satisfaction? Again, something is wrong with CR's methodology.

I feel like you answered your own question in the previous post?

"Any issue using the vehicle" goes into their reliability rating, even if the issue is "radio is confusing to use"

Their reliability score isn't "How likely is the vehicle to be unable to drive"..... it's "How unlikely is the vehicle to work exactly as you expect in every way 100% of the time" so folks used to say, knobs and physical controls for stuff will report back problems with modern touchscreen controls even if they WORK fine.

They certainly need to update their methodology-- though they do have the issue that if they majorly change it, you can no longer compare scores to previous ones that used the old method, which would cause a disruption for at least a few years. Might as well pull that band aid off sooner than later though.

 

[Mengy]

I wish Consumer Reports would directly answer how it's possible that Tesla ranks near the bottom in reliability, but it consistently ranks number one in customer satisfaction? Again, something is wrong with CR's methodology.

I've largely ignored CR for over a decade now. First I started noticing my own opinions on products were disagreeing with their's. Then I noticed how actual consumer reviews I'd read would also disagree with CR's ratings. As customer reviews became more prolific on the internet I came to rely on them much more than anything CR would say, particularly when the disconnect between the two become even larger over time.

Their ratings on Tesla cars only serve to show me they are still as disconnected from reality as ever, because as a Model Y owner myself, AND having talked with countless other Tesla owners, I know precisely how ridiculous CR's low reliability ratings on Tesla's are.

 

[Unpilot]

I wish Consumer Reports would directly answer how it's possible that Tesla ranks near the bottom in reliability, but it consistently ranks number one in customer satisfaction? Again, something is wrong with CR's methodology.

My dad used to read consumer reports.... He passed away 15 years ago.

I wonder what their actual readership numbers are?

 

[Singuy]

Consumer Reports is using an outdated methodology to gauge reliability. They make a tacit admission to this in the October edition of the magazine.

The October 2022 edition of Consumer Reports has the following letter to the editor with a response:



When most people think about reliability of an automobile, they are thinking about how often it will break down. But Consumer Reports is putting a software glitch on the same level as an engine that overheats and leaves you stranded.

To be fair, plenty of people are stranded because of software now. Lucid will randomly not respond for 15 mins. People who doesn't know it takes 15 minute for the car to reboot starts calling the tow truck. Then you have EVs having handshake problems with chargers, and if there's only one "working", you can potentially be stranded.

 

[MABMAB]

CR LOL. Stopped our subscription years ago, it is junk. Our second tesla is the best car we ever owned, our first tesla is the 2nd best car we ever owned. ZERO reliability issues and great customer service.

Musk Tesla CEO talks:
A good CEO hires talent and lets them demonstrate
Ramp of Y ought be a known issue. There are others that have been thru this with them, can handle it.
CT kind of in limbo. Plant layout and design plans ought be finalized. Not yet producing. What ongoing issues can't be handled in five minutes each day?
Semi? Same as above, Musk will get out of factory for the Dec 1 event.
Next model design? Again, what can't be handled in less than 15 minutes each day?
New factories? Does this take hardly any time for a CEO at this point?
Big picture actions for master plan 3 ought be in play already. No longer battery constrained. perhaps some actions to take on a daily basis, but does the CEO have todo them?
FSD? Yawn, boring. Not sure what is happening with code writers.

I take it as a good bullish sign that the CEO has free time to dedicate to a new project.

 

[thx1139]

Consumer Reports is using an outdated methodology to gauge reliability. They make a tacit admission to this in the October edition of the magazine.

The October 2022 edition of Consumer Reports has the following letter to the editor with a response:



When most people think about reliability of an automobile, they are thinking about how often it will break down. But Consumer Reports is putting a software glitch on the same level as an engine that overheats and leaves you stranded.

1001% correct. An infotainment system having a bug is annoying a part of an engine system failing leaving you stranded makes you angry and can be dangerous.

 

[traxila]

1001% correct. An infotainment system having a bug is annoying a part of an engine system failing leaving you stranded makes you angry and can be dangerous.

CR is a OEM financed joke.

I cancelled subscription a few years ago. Reported my move on TMC. When CR asked for an explanation I responded with one word: "Tesla".

Since then I have discovered more about them and their history and I feel like a complete tool for ever having given them any money or believing they were some sort of neutral reporter of anything.

 

[Nocturnal]

Edit. Wait! Look at the last few pages. We are talking about Tesla cars again, Semi, Y, consumer reports FUD.

If that's not a bullish sign I don't know what is.

I've largely ignored CR for over a decade now. First I started noticing my own opinions on products were disagreeing with their's. Then I noticed how actual consumer reviews I'd read would also disagree with CR's ratings. As customer reviews became more prolific on the internet I came to rely on them much more than anything CR would say, particularly when the disconnect between the two become even larger over time.

Their ratings on Tesla cars only serve to show me they are still as disconnected from reality as ever, because as a Model Y owner myself, AND having talked with countless other Tesla owners, I know precisely how ridiculous CR's low reliability ratings on Tesla's are.

I got a Y for my GF last December. It was in the shop for collision repair for a month and she was in a rental Toyota Rav-4. Now, in the scheme of things that isn't a bad car, probably better than average. She hated it. lol

FWIW this 2022 PY has had ZERO problems.

 

[ZeApelido]

Nooooooooo

 

[2daMoon]

Nooooooooo

Oh no.

Just when I was getting my hopes up, Cramer tosses his backwards funk out to dash them.

 

[Ipcress]

Edit. Wait! Look at the last few pages. We are talking about Tesla cars again, Semi, Y, consumer reports FUD.

If that's not a bullish sign I don't know what is.

I got a Y for my GF last December. It was in the shop for collision repair for a month and she was in a rental Toyota Rav-4. Now, in the scheme of things that isn't a bad car, probably better than average. She hated it. lol

FWIW this 2022 PY has had ZERO problems.

I also find it surprising given their "mission" that CR ratings give no weighting to the environmental benefits of an EV, and Tesla's leadership. They've been heavily promoting various safety features as essential, "should be standard" equipment for some time. Shouldn't the fact that EV's help not to destroy the planet also count for something? CR started out very positive with Tesla, then got into a spat over Autopilot, and published some damaging (to them) articles on how to defeat it. Focused on Tesla to the exclusion of competing systems. Has had a bee up their behind ever since. Too bad.--as many people trust them. Also, they promote fancy junk like Dyson cordless vacuums. Batteries last about a year, and cannot be easily replaced.

 

[Discoducky]

Here's a good video on CR from Sam and why most of what CR says about Tesla is FUD

 

[SOULPEDL]

I think we need to move on about Consumer Reports, although some obvious points needed to be said. They clearly did not take the route of Monroe with their data sales. I look at them as no more than a media channel, paid by big auto.

 

[jerry33]

I've largely ignored CR for over a decade now. First I started noticing my own opinions on products were disagreeing with their's. Then I noticed how actual consumer reviews I'd read would also disagree with CR's ratings.

I found that out in the 1970s. My opinions were almost never aligned with CR. CR usually likes the lowest common denominator products, usually ones that match "Industry standards". That way the never alienate mass market manufacturers. If the product is a bit different, or requires more than just "plug in and use", it will rate low.

 

[Nocturnal]

I also find it surprising given their "mission" that CR ratings give no weighting to the environmental benefits of an EV, and Tesla's leadership. They've been heavily promoting various safety features as essential, "should be standard" equipment for some time. Shouldn't the fact that EV's help not to destroy the planet also count for something? CR started out very positive with Tesla, then got into a spat over Autopilot, and published some damaging (to them) articles on how to defeat it. Focused on Tesla to the exclusion of competing systems. Has had a bee up their behind ever since. Too bad.--as many people trust them. Also, they promote fancy junk like Dyson cordless vacuums. Batteries last about a year, and cannot be easily replaced.

Ha, that is my exact experience with them. Wound up throwing it away.

I still can't believe they made an instructional video showing people how to defeat Tesla's safety systems and break the law to prove some vague point and dunk on Tesla fans.

 

[SmokyPeat]

Oh no.

Just when I was getting my hopes up, Cramer tosses his backwards funk out to dash them.

It's ok, he'll flip-flop tomorrow, if not sooner.

 

[Usain]

To be fair, plenty of people are stranded because of software now. Lucid will randomly not respond for 15 mins. People who doesn't know it takes 15 minute for the car to reboot starts calling the tow truck. Then you have EVs having handshake problems with chargers, and if there's only one "working", you can potentially be stranded.

If Consumer Reports was comparing how often a Tesla leaves you stranded versus how often an ICE car leaves you stranded then it would indeed be fair. But that's not what CR is doing.

The software-centric design of a Tesla enables hundreds of features that aren't available in an ICE car. So there is a lot more that can go wrong. But the typical software glitch is pretty innocuous and it's easily fixed with OTA. This is not true for the plethora of mechanical failures found in ICE cars.

 

[Favguy]

I wish Consumer Reports would directly answer how it's possible that Tesla ranks near the bottom in reliability, but it consistently ranks number one in customer satisfaction? Again, something is wrong with CR's methodology.

I think these cretins are treating minor complaints of things like slight trim creaks or rattles, or a 1.5mm mis-alignment on your bonnet (hood) panel on a Tesla on a par with an ICE breaking down and refusing to move, or a transmission blowing up...