Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Hiline]

You are speaking endlessly about pricing and ignoring costs. Nobody disputes there was a bigger premium for EVs 10 years ago. But that premium was there because costs were vastly higher.

The batteries on that Model S set Tesla back $50,000 - $60,000 and they sold them for $65k - $110k. The Mach E batteries might cost $12k tops and they are selling them for $50k. Ford has plenty of room for profitability in there.


If you want to talk about “advantage”, Tesla’s advantage is the fact that it takes a huge amount of engineering and legwork to get this right and Tesla had 10+ years to spread that engineering and legwork across. Because they squandered that time, Ford has to figure out how to cram that same engineering, materials sourcing, and infrastructure build out in 3 years while they are selling the product of less than 1 year of engineering efforts.


I agree with your first point though, Ford might indeed turn their ship around. But this idea that Tesla had “advantages“ and “had it easy” are ridiculous. Tesla was entering an industry against a wall of entrenched competition with 100 years experience crushing startups. “EASY” LOL.

Oh I'm not ignoring costs at all. Remember I mentioned the federal subsidies enabling Tesla to turn a profit? I remember someone also posting in this thread that Tesla scored a deal with Panasonic to use their excess battery cells at a heavily discounted price, contributing to their positive margin. I not in the slightest bit dismiss Tesla's technological achievements - as I also mentioned, I think Tesla offers superior products. The Model S wouldn't have become such a big success if they had had the capabilities of the Nissan Leaf. I think the strong bias towards positivity in this thread makes people tend to interpret my posts in a certain way and extrapolate way too much - I am not a politician with an agenda. Never did I even hint that Tesla had it easy, but I will hold on to my point that Tesla also had unique external advantages that Ford and GM simply don't have today.

 

[jerry33]

Leaf was not a compliance car.

True, not a compliance car, but it was a second car only due to the lack of range.

 

[EVNow]

True, not a compliance car, but it was a second car only due to the lack of range.

This was the #1 FUD of ev haters those days.

My reply was - tell me which is the "second" car.
- The car I use for 95% of my trips
- The car I use for 5% of the trips



Since most households have more than one car, one of them could be a short range EV with no issues.

ps : When I say 10,000 posts on MNL ... I don't mean it as a hyperbole. Trust me I've heard every complaint possible about Leaf. Still the moderator there - though I'm not active anymore.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This was the #1 FUD of ev haters those days.

My reply was - tell me which is the "second" car.
- The car I use for 95% of my trips
- The car I use for 5% of the trips



Since most households have more than one car, one of them could be a short range EV with no issues.

ps : When I say 10,000 posts on MNL ... I don't mean it as a hyperbole. Trust me I've heard every complaint possible about Leaf. Still the moderator there - though I'm not active anymore.

Similarly our EV is clearly our primary car, but we have a PHEV that we took on a road trip because of thinking we were going to a charging desert. For now a Tesla would be a requirement to have both BEV, but no dumb cruise no sale, so we're waiting a couple of years to see what DCFC gets added to see whether we can replace our PHEV with a CCS BEV.

I still wouldn't want a 2nd EV to be short range here for us because winter + outage could be a problem for one of us.
Mid-range would be fine and don't need both to be very fast charging..

 

[JRP3]

My 2014 Leaf is listed as having an MPGe of 114 miles. That's very close to my MYLR at 120.

Making my point since it has worse efficiency than the larger heavier Y.

 

[jerry33]

This was the #1 FUD of ev haters those days.

My reply was - tell me which is the "second" car.
- The car I use for 95% of my trips
- The car I use for 5% of the trips



Since most households have more than one car, one of them could be a short range EV with no issues.

ps : When I say 10,000 posts on MNL ... I don't mean it as a hyperbole. Trust me I've heard every complaint possible about Leaf. Still the moderator there - though I'm not active anymore.

View attachment 934195

A second car is the one used to go to work and back, the first car is for work and trips. We have a 2015 Leaf that Denise uses. It works fine for her because she never goes very far. But no way would we use it for a trip.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

Doubt it. We would have seen massive line work at Fremont to convert the 3 lines (one or more) over to cast setups. That just hasn't happened according to all the drone videos.

Good point. What’s the leading theory on why the LR went away for so long if not for structural redesign?

 

[bkp_duke]

Good point. What’s the leading theory on why the LR went away for so long if not for structural redesign?

Cell capacity. Had to divert to the MY (higher margin and volume car). The SR 3 didn't use the 2170s, so could not pull from there. The P3 was kept because it is lower volume.

 

[DFibRL8R]

0.25 point increase by Fed as expected

 

[Ogre]

Hmm.

Shareholder meeting May 20th, earliest it’s been in… quite a while.

Model 3 LR deliveries start June.

Did Tesla move the shareholder meeting so they could show off the new Highland Model 3 LR?

 

[EVNow]

A second car is the one used to go to work and back, the first car is for work and trips.

Thats a bad definition. Anyway, I think this discussion is run its useful coarse, we can continue in a different thread.

 

[mongo]

Hmm.

Shareholder meeting May 20th, earliest it’s been in… quite a while.

Model 3 LR deliveries start June.

Did Tesla move the shareholder meeting so they could show off the new Highland Model 3 LR?

Annual meeting date of May 16th was set in the Q3 2022 10-Q.
Meetings moved later due to C19. Used to be May/June.

 

[Marc_K_inNJ]

Hmm.

Shareholder meeting May 20th, earliest it’s been in… quite a while.

Model 3 LR deliveries start June.

Did Tesla move the shareholder meeting so they could show off the new Highland Model 3 LR?

All the clues are pointing to this 3LR being the Highland refresh.
The regular LR has been popping up in inventory here and there and all the specs were the same. If this is the same car they can just continue where they left off.
This new LR has different specs as far as range and also it’s not yet certified by EPA. And battery not approved for rebate by IRS.

Also no reason why first delivery is in June and not this month. No backlog of orders yet…

 

[GOVA]

Horrible styling, limited range, poorly engineered battery pack which lost range prematurely, not particularly efficient even with the poor styling, it certainly checked most of the boxes for compliance car even though it has improved quite a lot with newer versions.

This has nothing to do with being a compliance car.
Looks like have no idea about Leaf's history especially about its inception.

Toyota RAW4 was a compliance car AFAIK, Leaf has been not. Ever.

 

[hobbes]

Chuck Cook (FSD youtuber) is at Giga Berlin at the moment and met with Tobi Lindh and others. Has a few nice shots of the progress at the factory, it´s crowded with car carriers! See this tweet and preceeding ones:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653405203876532226

 

[Electroman]

I wish these guys publish their videos in Twitter and YouTube.

 

[Mengy]

Chuck Cook (FSD youtuber) is at Giga Berlin at the moment and met with Tobi Lindh and others. Has a few nice shots of the progress at the factory, it´s crowded with car carriers! See this tweet and preceeding ones:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653405203876532226

I'm very sad all of these trucks are not Tesla Semi's.

 

[GhostSkater]

I'm very sad all of these trucks are not Tesla Semi's.

Give a few years

 

[AndrewZ]

Sure! Have fun doing your own microsecond accurate predictions
Bye!
View attachment 934147

This aged like fine milk

 

[Skryll]

Similarly our EV is clearly our primary car, but we have a PHEV that we took on a road trip because of thinking we were going to a charging desert. For now a Tesla would be a requirement to have both BEV, but no dumb cruise no sale, so we're waiting a couple of years to see what DCFC gets added to see whether we can replace our PHEV with a CCS BEV.

I still wouldn't want a 2nd EV to be short range here for us because winter + outage could be a problem for one of us.
Mid-range would be fine and don't need both to be very fast charging..

What do you mean by dumb cruise - you get even basic adaptive cruise control for free, what else do you want. It allows you to set the speed on the steering wheel and sticks to it, doesnt try to switch lanes for you, doesnt even try to keep you in the lane unless you double clicked it to activate auto steering to follow the road.

Do you have a problem with it not bumping into the car in front of you in case you are not paying attention?