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Canada offering up to $30B in production subsidies for battery plants of Stellantis and Volkswagen. My tax paying dollars hard at work...or is that hardly working. Never a fan of any government picking winners and losers as they tend to get it wrong most of the time. Incentives should be equal to all players and performance based, with all on equal footing, letting free markets determine the winners. The best survive and thrive, the weakest let die. With this news, and Ford's recent $9B government loan for their US battery plant, looks like bailouts for EV wannabes has already begun. What have these companies been doing for the last ten years? Certainly after Tesla showed them their fully electric Model S win the 2013 Motor Trend Car of The Year Award, EVs had potential and was the the right thing to do. Surely...yet here they are today, still ten years behind Tesla.

Wow, that is a lot of money for Canada. That’s like the US spending $500B for cell subsidies.

Is there an estimate for how much IRA will cost the US?
 
Excellent response!

Add to this how the NACS receptacle may offer some savings on the production line for the OEMs adopting it if the cost is lower than installing the CCS receptacle. Another win, even if they only save a nickel per car.

The more cars that are using Tesla Superchargers, the more Tesla Superchargers there will be. A corollary to, "The more Teslas Tesla sells, the more Teslas Tesla sells" marketing strategy. The expansion of the Supercharger network ramps up with profits derived through greater usage.

The only folks with a beef may be those who are enamored with the idea of having an exclusive charging network and are unable to imagine that Tesla has people who have thought this through to the Nth degree and determined this is the best way to go.

Anyone doubting Tesla's prowess in planning for future growth might want to give their past history more study.
Agreed.
To paraphrase @unk45 , Tesla does marketing by building Superchargers. They build those, and a new market opens up. And judging from what we have seen lately, those markets are _starving_ for Teslas.

The move to allow GM, Ford, Rivian, and Volvo (yes?) to apparently access the SC network for free is yet another "defer easy money now for huge future upside" move by Tesla's management. It also happens to be a "save the world from climate change as rapidly as possible" move as well since it helps those guys avoid the chicken/egg conundrum that Tesla slogged through re charging infrastructure. The latter turns out to be a big deal for those of us stuck on earth.
 
Canada offering up to $30B in production subsidies for battery plants of Stellantis and Volkswagen.
I share some of your apprehension about the effectiveness of this government support, but mostly I am relieved that they aren't supporting those companies to make vehicles. Even if those firms fail as car manufacturers, the battery factories may contine to operate and employ people.
 
The chevy bolt is a tricky one, they only sold a handful the prior year. The rest of the chart you can just eyeball and get the context.

xxrh11ygvfab1.jpg
 
We are seeing the same destruction in the auto industry that SpaceX delivered to ULA, Boeing, ESA, Roscosmos, etc. It's fascinating that people can look at SpaceX's 85% market share and say "Huh, that's interesting", and not even think that the same CEO, who runs both companies in very a similar manner, could possibly destroy the entire auto industry.
While I agree with you and I think this a very exciting perspective, nowadays Tesla success is often eclipsed by Twitter shenanigans. Elon reputation got seriously damaged, at least for a big part of Twitter users that don't get Tesla or SpaceX but just see what's in front of their nose.
So I'd argue that generally speaking your view is even more niche that it was one year ago.
 
Tesla is beginning to catch fire in Thailand! Today we took delivery of this Long Range Model Y at the Bangkok Delivery Center along with 19 other excited new owners. With three packed orientation sessions per day, Tesla is selling ~360 vehicles per week, mostly Model Y. And this in a country only beginning to build out its EV charging infrastructure!

We are going to test this nascent infrastructure on July 9th when we drive "Blue Steel" (😎) home to Phuket with overnight stops in seaside Hua Hin and beautiful Krabi. With 623 kilometers of range, we'll likely make three charging stops on the 833 kilometer road trip.

Zero emissions and powered by the Sun. Go Tesla!
 

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If you made 8 referrals would you sell your vehicle (with FSD) and buy new (without FSD but 2 years of free subscription)?
This is super exciting. Sell a Tesla to someone and get 3 free months of FSD! They’ll get 3 free months of FSD too, and $500 - $1,000 off the car.If you just keep referring people you can get free FSD all year
 
Canada offering up to $30B in production subsidies for battery plants of Stellantis and Volkswagen. My tax paying dollars hard at work...or is that hardly working. Never a fan of any government picking winners and losers as they tend to get it wrong most of the time. Incentives should be equal to all players and performance based, with all on equal footing, letting free markets determine the winners. The best survive and thrive, the weakest let die. With this news, and Ford's recent $9B government loan for their US battery plant, looks like bailouts for EV wannabes has already begun. What have these companies been doing for the last ten years? Certainly after Tesla showed them their fully electric Model S win the 2013 Motor Trend Car of The Year Award, EVs had potential and was the the right thing to do. Surely...yet here they are today, still ten years behind Tesla.
I was very annoyed when I read this and my sentiment was much like yours. After a week or so thinking about it, the best defence I could come up with for the government’s decision is that if they simply offered rebates to the consumer, there would be zero incentive for a manufacturer to set up shop in Canada, especially with the strong manufacturing component in the IRA. While the IRA won’t penalize parts manufactured in Canada, it certainly doesn’t incentivize it either. With this package, Cabsda us getting into the battery manufacturing game. If Stellantis or VW fold then I guess someone can pick up a battery factory for cheap.

Still don’t like it though. Especially after how Chrysler screwed us over the last time we gave them a giant bailout and they shuttered their factory and pulled out of the country right after. I hate them almost as much as I hate the cheating, lying scum at VW, and that’s saying a lot considering I owned two VW diesels when the scandal broke. :mad:

While I’m venting, I’m also mad at GM. It’s now 13 months we’ve been waiting for parts for the Volt our kids drive after one got into a fender bender last year.
 
I was very annoyed when I read this and my sentiment was much like yours. After a week or so thinking about it, the best defence I could come up with for the government’s decision is that if they simply offered rebates to the consumer, there would be zero incentive for a manufacturer to set up shop in Canada, especially with the strong manufacturing component in the IRA. While the IRA won’t penalize parts manufactured in Canada, it certainly doesn’t incentivize it either. With this package, Cabsda us getting into the battery manufacturing game. If Stellantis or VW fold then I guess someone can pick up a battery factory for cheap.

Still don’t like it though. Especially after how Chrysler screwed us over the last time we gave them a giant bailout and they shuttered their factory and pulled out of the country right after. I hate them almost as much as I hate the cheating, lying scum at VW, and that’s saying a lot considering I owned two VW diesels when the scandal broke. :mad:

While I’m venting, I’m also mad at GM. It’s now 13 months we’ve been waiting for parts for the Volt our kids drive after one got into a fender bender last year.
Governments pouring huge sums of money into battery factories is good news for the mission. Not everything has to have a tesla sign on the side of the building to be beneficial.
 
I’d have to chase down various posts, but I thought the info was pretty reliable. A while ago Tesla stated they wanted to expand their Shanghai footprint, but nothings come of it.
My suspicion from watching what has actually been happening is as follows (the Shanghai watchers can doubtless fill in the details) which has elements of both strategic and tactical decision making:

- Tesla dumped lots of earth on the land nearby the existing Shanghai factory, so as to preload the land in readiness for the construction of the next factory. Since Tesla Shanghai are already (by now, not then) doing 1m/yr the tentative conclusion is that the next chunk would be sized for another 1m/yr (whether one calls this a new factory or an expansion of the existing one does not matter hugely). That took place a couple of years ago and the land ought to be preloaded by now, sufficient that they could have started construction by now;
- Tesla was also wandering around China kicking the tyres on other locations for the next factory site, so as to keep everyone guessing and honest (whether this was a for-real exercise, or a Potemkin looksee is unclear);
- Tesla cell suppliers in China brought to market additional LFP capacity that enabled the existing Shanghai factory to reach capacity, and those cell suppliers continued to ramp;
- The 4680 cell ramp ran late and was in any case re-focussed towards Austin leaving Berlin with the possibility of a cell gap;
- So excess and core LFP was diverted from Shanghai towards Berlin, which meant that Shanghai was actually hobled in reaching full plateau production rate by a quarter or so. One has to look at the detail in the quarterly and monthly production rates to form this tentative conclusion (see below, and note that Fremont use of China packs has been likely fairly stable in this period*);
- But in the meantime the political winds inside of China (i.e. squeals from local BEV manufacturers that Tesla is obliterating them); and the rising political tension between China and USA (and wider West); and the related rise in US-protectionism (i.e. US-IRA acts etc) caused Tesla to think it wise not to put too many eggs in the China basket at this time, and therefore the decision was to delay the next China factory/expansion;
- And instead the decision was taken by Tesla to pull forwards the Mexico option so as to get a plant that was inside NAFTA (so fairly robust in specific US-IRA terms and more general nearshoring/friendshoring terms), cheap labour, easier coordination, and opens up the wider LatAm/Mercosur/AndeanPact markets;
- And the latest part of this 2-3 year evolving situation is that Tesla has likely reached near-plateau in Shanghai and has kept the lines full through pricing games, and can now assuage Beijing concerns over rapacious foreign capitalists eating the local pseudo-capitalist-statist lunch;
- and all along that cell supply constraint was real which is why the design of the model 2/Z platform has been delayed and delayed, meaning we are unsure what really the China design office has actually been doing for the bulk of their workload for the last few years;


- and that 2/Z will likely only really come to fruition in (say ??) 2025 when Mexico (Monterrey) starts production (insert your Elon time modifier of choice) .... and by then I strongly suspect the decision will also have been taken to make use of that land for the Shanghai expansion .... provided that in the meantime US-China relations have become somewhat steadier (note that the decision on this can possibly be delayed until after a US-election cycle so as to take any wildness into account, and by then Ukraine should have stabilised and the outcome of that - one way or the other - will mean that China is either risk-on or risk-off in rules-based-global-order terms).
- and note that 4680 technology has not been sent lock stock and barrel to China, yet.

That's just my 2c on watching the pattern.

*
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Why do people say this? Is there reliable information that this is true?

This article gives some background: Bericht: Zweite Elektroauto-Fabrik von Tesla in China wird von zentralen Planern ausgebremst

Basically there were rumors early 2022 about an expansion on a nearby site, but nothing to that end has happened yet. And Reuters reported that Chinese National Development and Reform Commission seems to be stopping the plans now: Tesla's China expansion hits speed bump amid industry overcapacity

So nothing official, have to decide for yourself if you trust the info..

EDIT: Wrote this before reading @petit_bateau ´s much more detailed reply above. Leaving this anyway for the links
 
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Canada offering up to $30B in production subsidies for battery plants of Stellantis and Volkswagen. My tax paying dollars hard at work...or is that hardly working. Never a fan of any government picking winners and losers as they tend to get it wrong most of the time. Incentives should be equal to all players and performance based, with all on equal footing, letting free markets determine the winners. The best survive and thrive, the weakest let die. With this news, and Ford's recent $9B government loan for their US battery plant, looks like bailouts for EV wannabes has already begun. What have these companies been doing for the last ten years? Certainly after Tesla showed them their fully electric Model S win the 2013 Motor Trend Car of The Year Award, EVs had potential and was the the right thing to do. Surely...yet here they are today, still ten years behind Tesla.

As far as I know, their only big win was the Michelin factory in Nova Scotia--and that was a long time ago.
 
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