Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
And how would ICE cars have fared had THEY been submerged in salt water? (Hint...not well).
Such a situation gave rise to a very entertaining and ongoing Youtube video series about the restoration of an infamous flodded yellow McLaren P1.

Let's just say the damage was thorough, and smelly ...

(Apologies for the weekend OT)
 
And the RAV4 Prime has even more plug-in range.
Not from my research. The RAV4 Prime is listed as having 42 miles of all-battery range with an 18.1 kWh battery, while the second gen Volt had 53 miles of all-battery range with a 18.3 kWh battery. So, Toyota is now almost up to what GM was shipping ~8 years ago.
 
OT my neighbor was razzing me about a news report that a couple of Teslas burned after being submerged in salt floodwaters around the Tampa area. Super annoying.
Please excuse the interruption, I just needed to vent.
At least no one will have to worry about those flooded Teslas being resold to unsuspecting victims, like so many ICE cars after a flood. But, what I cannot understand is why anyone leaves an expensive car, like their Tesla, at home when they knew a CAT 3 was headed for them. It's just like last year with the idiot leaving his million $ McLaren P1 in the garage. He could have paid any kid $100 to drive it to higher ground outside the area, IMO.
 
At least no one will have to worry about those flooded Teslas being resold to unsuspecting victims, like so many ICE cars after a flood. But, what I cannot understand is why anyone leaves an expensive car, like their Tesla, at home when they knew a CAT 3 was headed for them. It's just like last year with the idiot leaving his million $ McLaren P1 in the garage. He could have paid any kid $100 to drive it to higher ground outside the area, IMO.
Right, it's a safety feature!
 
  • Funny
Reactions: keydiver and Skryll
I'm interested to see how the longer loan tenors work out. If EVs truly are expected to have a longer useful life then it makes more sense to have the longer loan tenor match the longer asset tenor than it would lending long against an ICE vehicle. That said, I'm very glad they are only testing this in small volume until some performance history is built up against what is partially a new asset class and hope they are putting enough of a risk premium on the loans to compensate for the higher risk.
in 1989 Volvo wanted to test 10 year tenors in the US. At that time Chase Auto Finance acted as their ‘captive’:
It sounded good, Volvo financing had very, very low default rates, buyer credit quality was very high. Doesn’t that sound like Tesla now?
However the experiment lasted only a short time. Those longest tenors attracted lower credit quality, higher loan to value, higher default rates and, above all sky-high loss severity since the collateral value declined more quickly than did payoff.
In very, very few cases is it logical to risk longer tenors because responsible buyers almost never choose those, the ones who do usually think of only payment and not value.
In my experience with financing of cars, trucks and aircraft the same principles apply. Over decades of doing finance company and bank bailouts, lower creditworthiness invariably follows relaxed terms. Shorter tenors have lower losses, invariably. Higher loan to value produces higher losses, invariably. No matter the country, no matter the collateral the results are the same every time! The ‘sub-prime market survives with sky high effective interest rates and fees supporting higher loan losses, but that model always is repeated, from Argentina to Vietnam and in between. That model never, repeat never, survives the first major recession.

People still advocate such idiocy for TSLA. That would destroy brand value and equity. From Rolls Royce, Maserati and Lotus to Nissan, Isuzu and Chrysler OEM’s periodically change management and try such gimmicks then lose on loan losses. Inevitably the results will be bad. Luckily Tesla is doing few of those bad deals in Spain. FWIW, the EU sad results from these deals end out with mostly immigrants signing on.

Legacy Chase again, in ea rly 1970’s formed FamilienBank in Germany but ended out with almost exclusively gastarbeiten because ethnic
Germans then were prudent. It was soon liquidated.

I could go on with examples, but will not. I end with the words of a PhD mathematician who famously said “subprime credit cards are intrinsically profitable” and they were until his company failed in the first recession and had a forced merger with a less imprudent larger bank.

Tesla should stay prudent and maintain direct sales even with frequent uninformed criticism of their open disclosure if pricing changes.
 
Over decades of doing finance company and bank bailouts, lower creditworthiness invariably follows relaxed terms. Shorter tenors have lower losses, invariably. Higher loan to value produces higher losses, invariably. No matter the country, no matter the collateral the results are the same every time!
Last time I checked (for UK market) Tesla requires a minimum 50% loan, i.e. one cannot borrow from Tesla less than 50% of the price in a financed deal (the alternative being straight cash). I didn't look to see what the maximum Tesla will loan.

Is this an error that Tesla is making, or is there a consistent sweet spot around the world, around the auto sector for sustainable profitability ? If so what are the broad outlines of that sweet spot ?

Say ?
- 18m to 36m duration;
- 50% to 75% LTV;
- etc ?
 
More unofficial rumours/info on Turkish sales. I don't know where these figures come from. Tesla aren't part of the organisation that reports (similar to Tesla in UK before they eventually joined SMMT) and I don't know of any other reliable source.

Again, these sales aren't (as far as I know) being tracked by anyone, so aren't in Europe sales trackers/Q3 predictors.

Translation by X:-

🥇#Tesla broke the record by delivering over 3,000 Model Ys in August 2023 alone!

The company, which entered our country a short time ago, took the first place in the bestseller list. Delivering 1,965 deliveries last month #Togg , it ranks second after Tesla. Tesla, which does not share official country-based data, took the lead in the USA, Europe and China in the first half of the year.

⚠️ In the meantime, there is a connection problem in Tesla vehicles that receive internet service via Turkcell in our country. It is stated that the problem caused by the operator has been resolved in some drivers, while work is being carried out to solve the interruption.

 
While I wouldn't care to drive very long distances or hour plus twice a day commutes, why do folk who buy a vehicle that drives and accelerates like a dream, look forward to the day when no steering wheel makes driving and fully enjoying the experience impossible?
Not everyone cares about how fast a vehicle accelerates as long as it keeps up with traffic. Efficiency and safety trump acceleration for many.
 
While I wouldn't care to drive very long distances or hour plus twice a day commutes, why do folk who buy a vehicle that drives and accelerates like a dream, look forward to the day when no steering wheel makes driving and fully enjoying the experience impossible?
I have noticed that I am more scared in the passenger seat than in the driver's. In the latter I know what is about to happen and can anticipate better.
Therefore I wonder if for thrill seekers it is not better to be driven by a fast (and safe) AP rather than drive themselves :)
 
Not from my research. The RAV4 Prime is listed as having 42 miles of all-battery range with an 18.1 kWh battery, while the second gen Volt had 53 miles of all-battery range with a 18.3 kWh battery. So, Toyota is now almost up to what GM was shipping ~8 years ago.
OK true, I had a first generation Volt with 38 EV miles. We used the Volt to tow our camper even though the Volt has NO tow rating. That made my wife nervous and with the Prime having a real tow rating she wanted to switch and so we got 10% more EV miles. So for us it was a step up. A friend just got a plug-in Volvo and he says he gets about 40 miles EV range and his son has the plug-in Pacifica worth 33 EV miles.
 
I have noticed that I am more scared in the passenger seat than in the driver's. In the latter I know what is about to happen and can anticipate better.
Therefore I wonder if for thrill seekers it is not better to be driven by a fast (and safe) AP rather than drive themselves :)
Yeah, if you're a person who drives close to 100% of the time, being a passenger is kind of scary regardless of car.
 
Yeah, if you're a person who drives close to 100% of the time, being a passenger is kind of scary regardless of car.

I've always felt a little bit sorry for my passengers and hoped they were the type of folk who enjoy carnival rides. 🤣

Oddly, I am all for Autonomy, with the caveat that my vehicle has a steering wheel, and pedals for brake and accelerator.

Despite really loving to drive, there are aspects of driving which are a burden. Long stretches of highway in the Southwest, nearly all Urban driving, and that is where I would welcome the option of letting the car do the work. The challenges of negotiating with a dense collection of drivers and boredom.

Save the fun stuff like winding mountain roads, jeep trails, and delicate maneuvering for me, even if an autonomous system can do it.
 
Last edited: