Yeah, depends on vehicle, inital pack temperature, and pack size, thus "maybe 15 minutes or more".
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
The Accountant
Active Member
I'm less certain on my view of regulatory credits. Tesla recognizes credits when they are sold (not when they are earned). So they can accumulated credits and decide when to sell them to generate revenue. Since Q2 was $282m and Q3 was $554m, I am guessing that they sold much of their earned credits in Q3 and have less to sell in Q4 but I have no evidence for this.
wrt to Stock Comp, it was reported that Tesla skipped their stock option and restricted stock grant in Q4 (with some small exceptions). Since these are recognized over the vesting period of 4 years, I estimate they will have Q4 savings of $30-$70m. The range is wide because it's very difficult to model this number.
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2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
The Accountant
Active Member
Good points.
Ahh - life was so easy when all we had to do was count cars and apply a margin.
Now with Tesla Energy, Supercharger revenues, Charging Equipment, VPP, Insurance, etc . . . life is hard.
Just an auto company . .just an auto company.
5 years ago
Tesla was unprofitable
Tesla delivered 1/8th of the cars today
FSDb didn't exist
Supercharger stations were 1/5th the size
Zero astronaut were flown by spaceX
Starlink didn't exist
Just to put 5 years into perspective for Elon's companies.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Don't forget, people visiting Las Vegas weren't experiencing the advertising clout of taking Boring rides in Teslas in tunnels at the Convention Center.
Got an Email from Tesla with an ownership experience survey. Among the usual stuff, it did have quite a few questions on how long you usually keep a vehicle, why you are still keeping your vehicle and not buying new (they even asked if it was macro related), what would have to happen (new model etc.) so you´d buy a new one, etc., so IMHO seems like they are trying to figure out reasons for weak sales in Germany in late 2023.
GhostSkater
Member
Most likely as some said before, cars not preconditioned with ice block battery packs at -20 °C (-4°F) or lower.
Cells won't charge, or charge extremely slow at bellow freezing temperatures depending or chemistry a how cold. Lithium cells have a heat capacity of around 1000 J/kg.K, all approximated, but this means that for a 500 kg pack to heat from -20 °C to 0 °C it takes ~2.8 kWh of energy, this is ignoring any heat losses at this cold temperature and for it to start to charge extremely slowly
The amount of motors determines how much heat a Tesla can produce, and thus how long that will take, you have around 3.5 kW from each motors plus 1 kW from the heat pump, which at those temperatures is basically just a resistive heater, COP of 1, and it isn't using the air as a heat source. These are the times for each number of motors:
Single motor - 4.5 kW - 37 minutes
Dual motor - 8 kW - 21 minutes
Tri motor - 11.5 kW - 15 minutes
Keep in mind this is just to heat the pack, the vehicle has to heat up the cabin first and then keep it hot and while simultaneously heating the battery pack, so a RWD owner that just got out of his house to the Supercharger next block will likely have to wait 1h+ before charging even starts
This is why preconditioning is so important, if you are unplugged from the wall, unless you have really low battery
In a real word test, a dual motor Model 3 (non heat pump) without using climate took 40 minutes to even start charging from a little bit colder than my example above, so likely we can double those numbers or even triple when considering cabin heating
It's more of a education problem that product problem, there is no getting around physics, and tri motor Teslas really help on this situation
In addition, there seem to be many Uber drivers that rent Tesla cars and use Superchargers while have no idea about anything Tesla/EV/Preconditioning.
Fox did show an Ford EV on a tow truck while claiming that Tesla cars get stuck in freezing temps.
If I were Tesla, instead of taking 20% of my app screen with 'Refer and Earn' crap, I'd implement their AI or whatever to inform users about the best practices regarding using an EV in -10F lasting for 9 days. BEFORE it happens. Overall, this has become a problem during that time and regular media do not help with their ignorance.
I thought the same thing. After living 40 years in PA, I well remember how many times your car battery totally died with the first cold front. You come out in the morning, and click, click, click....dead. But, of course, no mention of this cold front's affect on ICE cars.
Maybe you saw it at the Witte Bergen Supercharger in Eemnes The Netherlands, also see this post?
Was there last week; the Pudubot robots are still working fine there for around 2 years now, so apparently they are quite useful.
Very funny to see them moving around in the restaurant and going in and out of the kitchen collecting food to deliver to your table.
But the food was put on the table by the waiter, it is not self service there.
Advertised as working 24h on a 3 hours charge.
Capable of delivering around 300 dishes per day, 13 kg/tray, max 30 kg in total, sale price around USD 25.000.
However, the use of this robot is very limited and of course cannot be compared to the potential of Optimus!
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From X:
*breaking* @Tesla's new patent on 4680 cells (Dry energy storage device electrode and methods of making the same) is published today Jan 16th, 2024.the patent shows how Tesla is using dry cathodes and/or anodes for the 4680 Cyber cells!!
Source:
The link provided doesn't work for me, Ying Shirley Meng, professor in Energy Materials and Technologies which has been following Tesla and batteries, tweeted "Very impressive @Tesla".
*breaking* @Tesla's new patent on 4680 cells (Dry energy storage device electrode and methods of making the same) is published today Jan 16th, 2024.the patent shows how Tesla is using dry cathodes and/or anodes for the 4680 Cyber cells!!
Source:
The link provided doesn't work for me, Ying Shirley Meng, professor in Energy Materials and Technologies which has been following Tesla and batteries, tweeted "Very impressive @Tesla".
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Pdf of patent attached.
Limiting chined in:
"This appears to just be expanding patent protection for an application that's already received patent protection in the past."
No, iirc it was in a different Vandervalk hotel in Aarlen (Luxemburg), also a Supercharger location.
If we ever see Optimus in the Benelux, it will be in a Vandervalk Supercharger location, the owners of the Vandervalk hotel chain are very Tesla-minded.
That was posted yesterday and jordan gieseke from the limiting factor mentions that it appears to just be expanding patent protection for an existing patent from maxwell. The original poster says this shows dry cathode and anode use in the cyber cell, but there is no indication of this from the patent.
Edit: @mongo beat me to it
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Tesla is specifically hiring for this:
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
What about sale of Highland Model 3s in China? Margins should be noticably higher not only because presumably Highland is (unconfirmed) cheaper to make, but also has a higher price
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