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Wow, even Dan Ives opened up a can on that conference call.



Fear not though. He's still a bull.
Dan Ives doesn't know s*it. Remember how he was uber-bullish on GM's ultium after they did their version of battery day with a school project and a large powerpoint? How he sung praises to Marry "who led"? That's all you have to know. He's an equivalent of Gordo, with a slightly different slant. There is more due diligence in this thread, than will ever fit in his neural net.
 
And yet, 16 million cars were sold in the U.S. last year, the vast majority by automakers who have not cut priced anywhere as much as Tesla.
People are still car shopping; people are still buying cars.
Let’s not delude ourselves that interest rates explain the entirety of Tesla price cuts. They do not.
Not sold. Sitting on dealership lots. And you’ve zero idea what any of those dealer vehicles sold for because everyone pays a different price. Nobody pays sticker price except at Tesla. OEMs have stuffed their dealer network with cars and all over are laying off people and cutting production. Don’t be disingenuous.
 
Does the demographic that purchases a <$30K Tesla have a convenient way to charge? I've been wondering about this as I hear younger folks in the office with M3 that have to stop at the supercharger every few days (in contrast, they were filling up with gas weekly; these are all folks who rent).

I would think this could be a consideration for market penetration... superchargers are great for road-trips, but I wouldn't want to have to use them regularly.
 
Hi folks,

I predicted Tesla robotics back in mid-2018 in a conversation I had on DISQUS with user "Carsonight", before "the tweet" when I registered on TMC forum. Stick with me on this one, folks... ;)

Carsonight had/has family working for Tesla at Giga Nevada (he's from Carson City), and he said the Panasonic side does an annual shutdown for a week to do dirty, dangerous maintenence jobs like going inside the graphite hoppers to clean them (contamination reduces yields on battery cells).

Are you familiar with "confined space entry" Occupational Health & Safety requirements? Workers are legally required to don Scott airpacks, protective clothing, safety ropes and harnesses. Similarly-equipped Rescue workers are required to sit outside the work vessel just in case a rescue is required. The whole procedure is time consuming and expensive, as well as being disruptive to battery cell production.

Back in 2018, I wrote to Carsonight on DISQUS that Tesla could leverage their computer vision tech and their low-power, portable FSD chip to create a robot that could enter vessels unaided, unsupervised and use a hand-held laser cleaner to scrub the inside of the hopper as part of routine maintenance (daily or weekly).

None of this is rocket science; it's rocket ENGINEERING! People give Elon credit for brilliant out-of-the-box ideas, but this solution was obvious. Also easy to predict, especially for someone who intends to build a city on Mars!

As Elon says, "ideas are cheap, executing is hard". Now, we'll get Optimus working on Gen3 in Texas, and hired out to Panasonic in Nevada! LFG!!

Cheers to the Longs!
 
Good. They don’t deserve to know.

Did nobody notice the clear difference in analyst questions? The clear divide between Tesla and WS?

One side is interested in how to make the world a better place. Interested in how to bring to the people amazing, helpful products as quickly as possible without risking the company financially. The other side wants to know mundane, short term, irrelevant numbers while ignoring the herd of elephants in the room. For gawd’s sake WS won’t even acknowledge the war chest of cash that Tesla is growing all the while investing BILLIONS.

I understand this is what WS does. Like the dealership model, the Swedish Labor Market, the auto industry, and all the rest - time to change how you do business.

The last few quarters the conference calls have been more structured, less chaotic. I think it is because they now answer the top questions from Say, and only have time left for a couple of analyst questions. They even anticipate some of the Say questions by putting the answers in their earnings PDF and/or prepared comments. Not a lot of opportunity left for analysts to profile themselves or for Elon to drop a bombshell.
Elon even had a good quality microphone. I like it!
 
Also optimus is theoretically perfectly multi-skilled. Optimus can move from one job in general assembly, to another, to unpacking boxes of components, to any other task in the factory, as needed. If any optimus has been trained to do a task, they all have.
That makes the workforce perfectly fluid and adaptable. A far cry from the 1970s days of 'demarkation' and workers striking at the suggestion that a worker does another worker's job.
Optimus for the Berlin night shift.
 
This is true. However, that’s not how the average person views the situation. They don’t do the math from last year vs this year. YOU might. Other people don’t. Most other people don’t. All they see is ‘OMG! look at how high those interest rates are!?’ All they hear is the constant bombardment of news about how bloody high interest rates are. All they know is that they can’t afford the monthly payment. Period end of story.
anecdotally, that price action got me to get back to a model S, now that it has a steering wheel, and I just could not pass up the fsd transfer and the price drop. Yes, a higher interest rate, but the pill was sweet enough for me to swallow. The high-spenders are definitely more cautious, and more price-sensitive, now that there is a second year of rolling layoffs in tech. So, price matters....
 
Does the demographic that purchases a <$30K Tesla have a convenient way to charge? I've been wondering about this as I hear younger folks in the office with M3 that have to stop at the supercharger every few days (in contrast, they were filling up with gas weekly; these are all folks who rent).

I would think this could be a consideration for market penetration... superchargers are great for road-trips, but I wouldn't want to have to use them regularly.
As the number of BEVs grows it will be hard to rent any apartment without charging facilities. Time will fix this problem.
 
Mexico doesn't have a factory
Mexico doesn't have Tesla engineering
Tesla hasn't finalized the production line
Once the first line is developed, they can expand to Mexico

Having worked for a Tier One and developed a manufacturing line in Monterrey, I support this plan.
China were always going to design their own compact. They were not flagged for Gen 3. Silence......
 
The last few quarters the conference calls have been more structured, less chaotic. I think it is because they now answer the top questions from Say, and only have time left for a couple of analyst questions. They even anticipate some of the Say questions by putting the answers in their earnings PDF and/or prepared comments. Not a lot of opportunity left for analysts to profile themselves or for Elon to drop a bombshell.
Elon even had a good quality microphone. I like it!
Agreed. This is the first conference call where I could understand what people said. All the rest I have turned off after a few minutes because it was just noise rather than words.
 
Had a conversation with a couple last night. EV's came up, and it turned out I was the lone "champion" of them.
The talking points I heard were the regular FUD.....range and fires.

Neither of the people had a EV....yet were convinced they could not drive long distance and when they caught on fire might just burn forever.

My attempts to assure them might have moved the needle in their brain a little.

Sometimes I forget how few in numbers WE are.

But then I see how many Teslas I see on the Rd and look at the numbers sold and realize our numbers are increasing rapidly.
 
Does the demographic that purchases a <$30K Tesla have a convenient way to charge? I've been wondering about this as I hear younger folks in the office with M3 that have to stop at the supercharger every few days (in contrast, they were filling up with gas weekly; these are all folks who rent).

I would think this could be a consideration for market penetration... superchargers are great for road-trips, but I wouldn't want to have to use them regularly.
What @jerry33 said.
I think that was a source for the fuss in NY recently (with cold weather and Uber/Tesla leases given the tax discounts).

It's still a problem until Apt start doing what China did using the lockable charging cabinets - just a guess. (Remember, I thought it was the CyberTruck Extender Pack like a year ago but was just the Vault for charging security).
 
My guess is half of the LFP Model Y RWD pack = 31 kWh

I suspect you're right, especially for the 'Model Zwei' built at Giga Berlin. Imported LFPs from CATL or BYD are an obvious way to increase the speed of the production ramp.

N. America will more likely use Tesla 4680s imo because Tesla has 4 additional Bty lines due to come online at Giga Texas by end of 2024. This 100GWh of nameplate cell production capacity is enough for 2.5 Million Gen 3 vehicles with 40 KWh packs (or some combo there of).

Now I don't expect more than 1M Gen3 cars from Austin with the current development, so it's lots of spare cell capacity. Right now, this just means Tesla has flexibility in product planning going forward.

Prost!
 
Had a conversation with a couple last night. EV's came up, and it turned out I was the lone "champion" of them.
The talking points I heard were the regular FUD.....range and fires.

Neither of the people had a EV....yet were convinced they could not drive long distance and when they caught on fire might just burn forever.

My attempts to assure them might have moved the needle in their brain a little.

Sometimes I forget how few in numbers WE are.

But then I see how many Teslas I see on the Rd and look at the numbers sold and realize our numbers are increasing rapidly.
I've come to the same conclusion. These folks seem to have higher education so it seems the longer-standing FUD has taken hold as facts for a good portion of the population.
 
They have pencilled the Gen3 in at 50kw/h in Investor Day presentation.

That 50 KWh figure wasn't from Tesla, it was sourced from some U.S. think-tank type agency in a strategic outlook document. IIRC @mongo dug out the details back during Inv. Day.

Tesla didn't overtly say the planned size of their Gen3 battery pack.
 
I thought they provided real world numbers based on their targeted digital ads. Wasn’t it something like 10m views resulting in 500,000 additional inquiries about Tesla from non-Tesla owners. So new people to the brand. Didn’t they also say they would continue to do very specific targeting, collect the resulting data, etc., etc.,?
Yes, yes, yes!! The primary issue is using a generic word 'advertising' to describe highly targeted promotional and information devices, each of which is designed to reach the actual potential buyers with the information and/or inducements to buy TSLA products. That Elon specifically mentioned Japan is clearly not a spontaneous outburst.

Here are the summary data (source: statista, aggregated from JADA)
The best selling imported brands in 2022 were, in order Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, and Volvo which sold 119,966 vehicles in Japan that year. The total of all imported cars then was 278,000. That was with a total market of 4,201, 321. That 119,966 cars were sold mostly in the Tokyo metropolitan area plus handful of other large cities.

Japanese homologation rules and urban parking issues generally make the huge foreign cars unsuited to most of Japan. Despite that the Toyota Land Cruiser does sell well there, as do Lexus, although almost entirely the smaller, narrower models.

So what was Elon's reasoning? I speculate that it was thinking about the >300,000 market for major large foreign vehicles plus the market for large Japanese ones. Then he must be thinking of narrower (smaller, yes, but primarily narrower) upcoming Tesla models plus the market that actually chooses giant imports. As it stands Toyota is largely ignoring BEVs, Nissan is stagnating, Honda not too attractive as a prestige purchase, so...whay not resuscitate the prestige, cachet and practicality of Tesla?

if that is the logic, they need better models, soon coming, but above all they need to find the prospects for the present lineup. Would Land Cruiser types buy Cybertruck? Nobody really knows. What is known is that only 1.4% of Japanese households have annual income above ~US$130,000 . we also know that conspicuous consumption is often considered gauche, so the marketing process fo luxury goods, such as imported cars, is a delicate topic.

That really means Tesla needs to find a very refined and well-reasoned approach to have real success in Japan. Mercedes-Benz found that with >52 thousand sold in 2022. Others have failed almost every time they've tried.


1. Describe all the Tesla benefits in tech-speak, do NOT make those translations. They need to be very carefully evaluated to avoid problems within the three Japanese writing systems. Precise, elegant and correct communication is essential. Translations are almost certain to be suboptimal.
2. Do careful research into purchase and use patterns for those ~120,000 foreign car purchaser per annum. Then 3. with that data decide what media should be used to communicate and how.
Although I am no expert on Japan I did work there three times, including one for a major Japanese OEM seeking better results and another for partial acquisition of a major Japanese consumer finance company. So, since the late 1960's I have been very much aware of the unique character of the Japanese consumer behavior. That includes specifically the retail sales and delivery process for vehicles.

Anything even approchng detail about all this would stray far off-topic. Still, Elon's comment yesterday was NOT a throwaway. Bluntly, as I'm sure he knows Japan auto sales is not an advertising issue although it is in part an awareness issue. Fundamentally it is about positioning. The most conspicuous examples of foreign company success are P&G and Zara:

A much earlier example was VISA but that really worked though a licensing model and did so in 1973, rather a long time ago. (I was peripherally involved in that one).

If my suspicion is correct Tesla is devoting serious effort on this one. The value of success would be far greater than just sales in Japan. It would be the adaptation of the Japanese auto distribution system to a technological age. That would be very, very valuable.

Finally, there are ~new car auctions in Japan, that bypass the dealer systems. However almost all new cars are sold by dealers in a process that includes negotiation, over tea, that is an accepted part of the process. That sounds on the surface like dealers everywhere else but it does differ largely in the social interaction.

This topic may be a little reminiscent of the pain in launching Model 3. In the end it might well be worth it.
The two foreign auto executives who were successful in adapting to these systems were Carlos Ghosn with Nissan and Mark Fields with Mazda. They were hugely different but both were successful in large part because of desperation within their Japanese companies.

Fields could be very useful to Tesla, although the Hertz-Tesla history might have some stress in such a collaboration. Fields was the Hertz CEO who bought the Tesla fleet.
 
Let’s not delude ourselves that interest rates explain the entirety of Tesla price cuts. They do not.

You are correct! Give that person the biggest stuffed Cupie Doll on the top shelf.

Tesla cuts prices because they have always planned to do so, and have done so, consistently, from the beginning, nearly two decades ago.

They spelled it out in a Top Secret Master Plan that nobody making such ludicrous statements has ever read. Or, has read and simply don't believe it, despite all evidence to the contrary.

The mission for this company is to
ACCELERATE THE TRANSITION TO SUSTAINABLE ENERGY!

Anyone trying to suss Tesla's motives by comparing their actions to other companies' actions, when those companies' goals are based on keeping shareholders happy, will miss the mark every time when evaluating Tesla.

Coming here and repeatedly posting arguments which clearly do not take this into consideration is evidence of a behavior Einstein described as "doing the same thing over an over while expecting a different result." This was his definition for insanity.

What is it about this that prevents people from integrating it into their evaluation of Tesla? Once applied to the model you don't have to be a rocket surgeon to see that it explains most of what people remain confused over.

If you have not noticed, Tesla might be ever so slightly different than those other companies you are comparing it to.