Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[FireMedic]

For me towing is the weak link with Tesla especially with their back in charging. 250 miles of interstate range drops to 125 when towing. Then you need to often unhitch to charge. So any tow over 100 miles we elect to take the RAV4 Prime. Just a log easier on a long trip especially if you camp in National Parks and National Forest with no electricity.

It adds 2 or 3 minutes per charging session for me to park my trailer before I charge. Granted that’s a small utility trailer (so hooking up is easy); but it’s just a minor inconvenience for me.

I take more issue with the fact that lane keep doesn’t work while towing than I do with a lack of pull through charging.

Still, every time, I choose our model X vs. our gas SUV (our kids nicknamed grandpa) for towing our little 12’X6’ trailer for our 200 mile roundtrip weekly moto trip.

 

[strago13]

I know we have an FSD thread, but I think this is worthwhile sharing here. My background is that I am an EM at a FAANG company.

We bought FSD pretty early on in 2019 under the guise that this was the future. We even bought it on a second car before prices went up. We thought with the price increases and the way things were trending that we would be getting a steal. We bought the hype. Until today when we get 12.3, we had stopped using FSD because it was more of an annoyance than useful. I just did a quick drive with it and was thoroughly impressed with how it handled, except for a few minor quibbles. It did things almost as good as I would have and we had 0 interventions on our journey. If this is the step change and 12.4 is coming soon...we are going to hit the inflection point soon. Fingers crossed.

 

[Todd Burch]

Marcus Brownlee (the largest YouTube tech reviewer, that Tesla trusted with the initial cybertruck release) has released his first “living with” review of the cybertruck after a couple of weeks of using a dual motor founders edition that was lent to him.

A mostly positive review one could say, mostly raving about the vehicle tech, design & driving experience, but let down by some early build issues (the door gap is horrendous, no hub caps, no autopilot/FSD) and disappointing range.

This review was done on his auto focus channel, another review to come on his main channel which has a much bigger following, where he will be reviewing his own tri-motor cyberbeast.

OK most people probably know I'm a big Tesla fan. Been around Tesla since 2009...took a very early test drive in a Roadster 1.0, bought an early Model S sight unseen, was one of the first in Virginia to receive a Model S, and most of my life savings is in TSLA. And I'll probably never buy anything but a Tesla for the rest of my life. So if this bothers you, brace yourselves--it's coming from a perspective of love.

<rant>
But ugh, that door. I really hope it wasn't delivered that way, although I don't think Marques would lie about it. Those kinds of quality issues are pretty embarrassing and absolutely unacceptable for *any* carmaker, much less Tesla. Tesla needs to be leading in this kind of stuff, not putting out the worst fit and finish of any vehicle on the planet. Marques honestly should have been more harsh to Tesla about it, and I hope someone high up sees it.

Tesla's never going to get over its reputation for poor assembly quality until that kind of inexcusable nonsense is a thing of the past. Tesla is way too mature at this point for that kind of stuff to still be happening at this point.

Elon, fire your head quality person. Again. Keep firing them until this kind of stuff stops happening. There is NO excuse. Early builds happen at a much slower pace and there's more time to fix issues like this. If you can't fix the assembly, send it to the trash bin and try again. No customer should ever get a door that fits so terribly.

I know the vehicle's an early build, but most of the early deliveries go to celebrities, reviewers, and high profile people. Tesla should know better at this point than to let garbage assembly like that out of the factory door.

Quality isn't that hard to get right--or at least a hell of a lot better than that. It's like nobody in the QA department even cares.
</rant>

 

[aronth5]

View attachment 1029608
Serious question…why are people still buying Rav4s and CRVs?

I’m happy to see the Model Y near the top, but I’m surprised the gap isn’t wider against the small SUVs. Safety, driving experience, total cost of ownership,…should widen the gap. If people only knew.

Major reason is simple, lack of Tesla service centers. People like the comfort of knowing a "dealership" is reasonably close to them. In some states there are no Tesla service centers or maybe 1 or 2 meaning a significant number of people are hours away from a service center. That is a huge negative. Take the 3 northern New States for example. There is 1 Tesla service center and that just opened in Vermont. New Hampshire and Maine don't have service centers. Take a look around the country and there are a lot more states with either no service center or one. Many people simply won't buy a Tesla for that very reason. I wonder how many people in the US are within an hours drive of a major legacy car maker compared to Tesla? The difference in numbers is enormous and that directly affects Tesla sales.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=43.3588078826318,-76.32957132812501,29.1925375730986,-109.90379007812501&zoom=6&filters=delivery centers,service

The number 1 question I get asked, even more than range, is where is the closest service center/dealership?

 

[aronth5]

None of that seems to have improved FSD take rates much though.

Simple- price. I paid $7k which was reasonable. But at one time FSD was $15k before they dropped it to $12k. Too much. Subscription has equally been too much for limited capabilities. (yes V12 changes that). I know very few people that own FSD and when I ask why it's always either price or they just love to drive themselves.

 

[heltok]

But ugh, that door. I really hope it wasn't delivered that way, although I don't think Marques would lie about it. Those kinds of quality issues are pretty embarrassing and absolutely unacceptable for *any* carmaker, much less Tesla. Tesla needs to be leading in this kind of stuff, not putting out the worst fit and finish of any vehicle on the planet. Marques honestly should have been more harsh to Tesla about it, and I hope someone high up sees it.

If MKBHD would have taken delivery of a car with that panel gap he would have noticed and done something about it. Whoever owns the car should have noticed it, or the delivery guy. My guess is that the gap was not there but happened some time between delivery and when MKBHD got access to the car. Which almost make me think that the person who gave him the car knew about it and had malintent.

 

[Paul_SF]

OK most people probably know I'm a big Tesla fan. Been around Tesla since 2009...took a very early test drive in a Roadster 1.0, bought an early Model S sight unseen, was one of the first in Virginia to receive a Model S, and most of my life savings is in TSLA. And I'll probably never buy anything but a Tesla for the rest of my life. So if this bothers you, brace yourselves--it's coming from a perspective of love.

<rant>
But ugh, that door. I really hope it wasn't delivered that way, although I don't think Marques would lie about it. Those kinds of quality issues are pretty embarrassing and absolutely unacceptable for *any* carmaker, much less Tesla. Tesla needs to be leading in this kind of stuff, not putting out the worst fit and finish of any vehicle on the planet. Marques honestly should have been more harsh to Tesla about it, and I hope someone high up sees it.

Tesla's never going to get over its reputation for poor assembly quality until that kind of inexcusable nonsense is a thing of the past. Tesla is way too mature at this point for that kind of stuff to still be happening at this point.

Elon, fire your head quality person. Again. Keep firing them until this kind of stuff stops happening. There is NO excuse. Early builds happen at a much slower pace and there's more time to fix issues like this. If you can't fix the assembly, send it to the trash bin and try again. No customer should ever get a door that fits so terribly.

I know the vehicle's an early build, but most of the early deliveries go to celebrities, reviewers, and high profile people. Tesla should know better at this point than to let garbage assembly like that out of the factory door.

Quality isn't that hard to get right--or at least a hell of a lot better than that. It's like nobody in the QA department even cares.
</rant>

the important question is why he accepted the car like that. and yea, I do believe he would lie tbh... he talked smack before and he ended up getting paid to advertise for some ICE company. to me he kinda lost all respect, he's gotten too big and now he's milking everything he can, it's all for views...

 

[ggies07]

OK most people probably know I'm a big Tesla fan. Been around Tesla since 2009...took a very early test drive in a Roadster 1.0, bought an early Model S sight unseen, was one of the first in Virginia to receive a Model S, and most of my life savings is in TSLA. And I'll probably never buy anything but a Tesla for the rest of my life. So if this bothers you, brace yourselves--it's coming from a perspective of love.

<rant>
But ugh, that door. I really hope it wasn't delivered that way, although I don't think Marques would lie about it. Those kinds of quality issues are pretty embarrassing and absolutely unacceptable for *any* carmaker, much less Tesla. Tesla needs to be leading in this kind of stuff, not putting out the worst fit and finish of any vehicle on the planet. Marques honestly should have been more harsh to Tesla about it, and I hope someone high up sees it.

Tesla's never going to get over its reputation for poor assembly quality until that kind of inexcusable nonsense is a thing of the past. Tesla is way too mature at this point for that kind of stuff to still be happening at this point.

Elon, fire your head quality person. Again. Keep firing them until this kind of stuff stops happening. There is NO excuse. Early builds happen at a much slower pace and there's more time to fix issues like this. If you can't fix the assembly, send it to the trash bin and try again. No customer should ever get a door that fits so terribly.

I know the vehicle's an early build, but most of the early deliveries go to celebrities, reviewers, and high profile people. Tesla should know better at this point than to let garbage assembly like that out of the factory door.

Quality isn't that hard to get right--or at least a hell of a lot better than that. It's like nobody in the QA department even cares.
</rant>

Or maybe, just maybe - now here me out - what if, what if the CEO makes sure the product is being manufactured correctly like he did with the 3, you know, since it's a new type of car, instead of bitching about immigration and being a bullying on his social media platform he bought for himself.


Hmmmmm.....

 

[Usain]

Finally getting FSD V12.3. Installing now. I'm on HW4.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to try it out until tomorrow evening. Wife takes the Tesla to work in the morning.

(Well, if I can't sleep from the excitement, I might have to try it out in the middle of the night.)

 

[Knightshade]

Major reason is simple, lack of Tesla service centers. People like the comfort of knowing a "dealership" is reasonably close to them. In some states there are no Tesla service centers or maybe 1 or 2 meaning a significant number of people are hours away from a service center. That is a huge negative. Take the 3 northern New States for example. There is 1 Tesla service center and that just opened in Vermont. New Hampshire and Maine don't have service centers. Take a look around the country and there are a lot more states with either no service center or one. Many people simply won't buy a Tesla for that very reason. I wonder how many people in the US are within an hours drive of a major legacy car maker compared to Tesla? The difference in numbers is enormous and that directly affects Tesla sales.

Don't worry, Elon has assured us this will be fixed by *checks notes*.... early 2019.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1052356093534302208

 

[Linkmeup]

Or maybe, just maybe - now here me out - what if, what if the CEO makes sure the product is being manufactured correctly like he did with the 3, you know, since it's a new type of car, instead of bitching about immigration and being a bullying on his social media platform he bought for himself.


Hmmmmm.....

I believe he's also built a rocket factory in Texas.

Link: Elon Musk says SpaceX still growing in Texas, plans rocket engine factory near Waco

 

[FastEddieB]

It adds 2 or 3 minutes per charging session for me to park my trailer before I charge. Granted that’s a small utility trailer (so hooking up is easy); but it’s just a minor inconvenience for me.

Like you say, small utility trailer is easy.

But a travel trailer with a weight distribution hitch is a much bigger deal. Probably 10 to 15 minutes each for both unhitching and hitching back up. Not the end of the world, but every hour and a half or so on a trip would wear thin quickly. Add in darkness or inclement weather - no thanks. Pull through SuperChargers will me mandatory to make this practical.

For those unfamiliar with weight distribution hitches, ours is typical, and you can see “dropping the trailer” takes some work each time.

 

[MC3OZ]

Or maybe, just maybe - now here me out - what if, what if the CEO makes sure the product is being manufactured correctly like he did with the 3, you know, since it's a new type of car, instead of bitching about immigration and being a bullying on his social media platform he bought for himself.


Hmmmmm.....

Elon has stressed the need for tight tolerances and high built quality for Cybertruck.

That CT is the only example I have seen with the problem.

It also seems like a problem that might have become worse after delivery, and that might have been triggered by frequent opening and closing of the door and/or something becoming loose?

Regardless, it needs to be fixed... one single example isn't enough to draw a definite conclusion... but sometimes problems do occur in early builds.

 

[DragonWatch]

Forward Observing

Pretty bad when your brother-in-law for fifty years sends you a pic of a Cybertruck in the wild. I told him to buy stock in TSLA six years ago and he told me he appreciated the info and blew me off. Maybe he wishes he had ~ just kind of funny.

Cheers

 

[SOULPEDL]

Finally getting FSD V12.3. Installing now. I'm on HW4.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to try it out until tomorrow evening. Wife takes the Tesla to work in the morning.

(Well, if I can't sleep from the excitement, I might have to try it out in the middle of the night.)

Congrats, your life expectancy has just improved significantly. V11 tried to kill some of us, but we survived!

We will cherish the early captures. They will see the battle we had, the risks we took.

We are the Hidden Hero’s of FSD!

 

[AZRI11]

Forward Observing

Pretty bad when your brother-in-law for fifty years sends you a pic of a Cybertruck in the wild. I told him to buy stock in TSLA six years ago and he told me he appreciated the info and blew me off. Maybe he wishes he had ~ just kind of funny.

Cheers

My brother-in-law of 40 years just did the same to me. I can't believe he got to see one in the wild before I did.

 

[AZRI11]

Problem has been addressed.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1770288146477203737

 

[Musskiah]

New Tesla Semi customer. NOT any of the well known buyers like UPS, ANHEUSR BUSCH, WALMART, JBS, ETC...

This will be short "standard range" semis that are shorter and more maneuverable than long range. The market for short haul is large. SR Semi Does not require megachargers. SR has 2 battery packs instead of 3. Two packs are equivalent to 32 power walls.

The short haul market has many players, as it is fragmented "with the top five companies occupying 5.36%. The major players in this market are FedEx, Knight-Swift Transportation Holdings Inc., Landstar System Inc., Schneider National, Inc. and XPO, Inc. Other important companies include CMA CGM Group, DHL Group, PS Logistics, Ryder System, Inc., United Parcel Service of America, Inc. (UPS)."***

I would suppose it's likely one of these companies.

***Source: United States Short Haul Road Freight Transport Market Share

 

[Usain]

Finally getting FSD V12.3. Installing now. I'm on HW4.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to try it out until tomorrow evening. Wife takes the Tesla to work in the morning.

(Well, if I can't sleep from the excitement, I might have to try it out in the middle of the night.)

FSD V12 on HW4 is officially awesome.

I couldn't wait so I took it out on a drive where V11 always fails in multiple places. With V12, there were no interventions and no disengagements.

There is one tricky spot that humans gets wrong all the time. You crest a hill to find that the left lane becomes a left turn lane. Your only clue is a small sign that you often don't notice until it's too late. I've been living around here many years and sometimes I still forget to get out of that lane. But FSD saw the sign and knew exactly what to do. The human driver in front of me got stuck, then had to wait and go behind me. FSD beats human!

It did do one weird maneuver where it should have moved to a left turn lane before turning left. There was no traffic around, so I let it continue and make the turn from the far lane. It will be interesting to see what it does there during the day with more traffic.

At the end of the drive, it wanted to turn into my driveway, which is something V11 never attempted. It signaled, but couldn't figure out what to do. I guess humans miss my driveway sometimes as well.

My first impression is that V12 is as good as advertised. If we keep getting improvements as fast as Elon said, we will all be some very happy investors.

 

[Usain]

My brother-in-law of 40 years just did the same to me. I can't believe he got to see one in the wild before I did.

OMG. That happened to me yesterday. My brother-in-law saw one in Louisville before I got to see one in Atlanta. Sent me a pic.

What is it about brother-in-laws?