Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[scaesare]

Yeah, Elon is no my hero. Not even a dawn surprise.

The internal email was sent close to midnight PT, per a timestamp seen by Business Insider.

In the memo, obtained by BI, the Tesla CEO said that there has been a "duplication of roles and job functions in certain areas" as the company has grown rapidly.

On Sunday night, workers who were impacted by the layoffs received an email to their personal accounts, informing them their roles had been eliminated.

"Effective now, you will not need to perform any further work and therefore will no longer have access to Tesla systems and physical locations," the email read.

I’ve seen it done several ways. Had it happen personally once, just like this one. Worked for a medium sized cloud company sold to Private Equity. Those who were not slated to be retained ( in my case, no interest in gov business), were notified and removed from system access the same day. My case - a phone call during my commute; FSD would have been helpful. I have worked for other companies that do it through packages and affected employees leave at a future date and usually with a severance package. Personally, I prefer the second approach.

I think the issue with the second choice is the need for some companies like Tesla is to remove access to avoid losing intellectual property, prevent sabotage, etc... and the fact that employees really can't do their job at that point. Not sure what the severance package situation is...

Tesla has begun sending out severance info to laid-off workers. Here's how much they're getting.

Five former workers told Business Insider that Tesla's severance offer included two months' pay.

www.businessinsider.com

Ah, so this addresses the severance aspect of this... so I'm not sure this could reasonably have been handled much differently @RSpanner ...

 

[GOVA]

Is there a thread for untie K's dumping? Asking for a friend.

 

[scaesare]

Housekeeping:

Too many of you (even one is too many but it’s quite a bit more than that) have gotten sloppy with your overabundant use of abbreviations.
YOUR microseconds of saved time absolutely do not balance out against the time-wasting collective hours of others’ musings as to what it is to which you are referring.

Besides, use of them suggests that you don’t care about forum rules. And that never ends well.

Site abbreviation / acronym glossary?

 

[scaesare]

Maybe related?

"SSAB has been selected for awards negotiations for up to 500 MUSD in funding from the U.S. Department of Energy for a potential construction of a HYBRIT[®] manufacturing facility, capable of producing fossil free iron by using green hydrogen instead of fossil fuels. The project will also explore the possibility to expand capacity and capability at SSAB’s steel manufacturing operations in Montpelier, Iowa, including increased use of renewable energy."

SSAB selected by U.S Department of Energy to explore possibilities for production of fossil-free steel in the U.S.

SSAB has been selected for awards negotiations for up to 500 MUSD in funding from the U.S. Department of Energy for a potential construction of a HYBRIT[®] manufacturing facility, capable of producing fossil free iron by using green hydrogen instead of fossil fuels. The project will also explore...

www.ssab.com

Claims of "green hydrogen" always raises my antennae

 

[Musskiah]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780778694535192598

Well that's good news. Cybertruck deliveries have started up again and Elon states no injuries OR accidents occurred due to the issue.

It never ceases to amaze how the usual suspects (Reuters, Bloomberg, Business Insider, etc) don't cover timely solutions Tesla delivers such as this...yet they always, ALWAYS inundate us with the problem. It's almost like the media focus is on the negative because they know the human psyche is developed to respond to negativity and fear disproportionately. Interesting that, yes?

 

[Knightshade]

What do you think a HW4 Model 3/Y/S/X with high definition radar would be missing?

HW4 3/Y don't have radar at all.

All of them are missing any camera that covers the front blind spots of the car (except maybe the cybertruck)- though how relevant that is for RTs versus cars that are parked/off for significant periods remains to be seen.

All of them might be missing cameras that can better see to the side forward mounted on the car (Chuck Cook has specifically called this out as a limitation of the current B-pillar cams being mounted too far back to see around obstructions at intersections like fences and trees/bushes without creeping too far into traffic)

All of them might be missing cameras that have any way to clean themselves (barring the behind the windshield/wiperable ones) to all L4 operation in all weather conditions- though a limited L4 ODD could largely work around this while limiting where/when RTs can operate.

Plus until they have a working set of L4 code, we have no idea if HW4 (let alone 3) is sufficient to run it- and do so in a single HW mode for redundancy.

The point here is a Robotaxi network can be started as soon as the software is ready.

Model 3/Y could even be imported into the US from China to use as Robotaxis, in that case the IRA doesn't really matter.

Unless it turns out RT needs HW those existing 3/Y don't have- see above.

Her fund has to maintain certain percentages, she can't just go all in on Tesla and hodl! Doesn't work that way.

This is a recurring, but mythical claim.

Anyone have any insight why the shareholder meeting vote is only for the retroactive comp package and nothing for the next several years? Seems like an opportune time to take care of both.

Seems like there's be a really weird situation if the old comp package failed to pass but a new one did.

Makes more sense to get the results of the old one on the books BEFORE you put out a new one for a vote- as the new one would, I expect, but very different depending on the answer to that.

It's an important distinction. Any ole schmuck can master 3D chess, but 4D chess ...most can't even IMAGINE it, let alone attempt it.

Mastering things in 4D requires time.

 

[Musskiah]

Mastering things in 4D requires time.

Very nice. I like what you did there

 

[Krugerrand]

How about we wait till earnings call to understand what will be happening when?

I don’t care about the ER call. Q1 is over and not relevant to my long term investment.

While I agree with the general gist of what you are saying, some of us know that Elon can also make mistakes ( he can be awfully factually wrong about some of the things he posts on X for example.).

Don’t care about his mistakes. Fail often, fail quickly. So mistake away, Elon. And I most certainly don’t care about your opinion of his opinions over there. So not relevant to Tesla.

Lets hope we are all happy after the call and beyond. I know too many people who will no longer consider buying a tesla because of Elon. For someone like myself who believes in the mission of TESLA and alternative energy in general, its beyond sad that he has contributed to this division of opinions around his behavior which i am certain has caused UNECESSARY damage to the brand.

Meh. People are fickle, have short memories, are happiest when judging others as less than themselves, and think they know better. I don’t believe any of that matters in the long run.

 

[scaesare]

All I will say is that there are reliable work arounds.

So not to be a teacher's pet, but I'm not a fan of advocating such. Tesla has put the safeguards there on purpose while in development, and we've seen FSD behavior change between versions (in some cases regress for some features). Not only does it endanger life, not only yours, but mine and the other folks around you, but the last thing Tesla needs is severe accidents that can be blamed (incorrectly) on FSD... you know how the media reacts to that...

Yes, I drive above the speed limit, don't always come to a complete stop, etc... not trying to be a hypocrite here... but foobling FSD, especially at this stage, is a different story, IMO.

[end of soapbox post]

 

[Krugerrand]

It's an important distinction. Any ole schmuck can master 3D chess, but 4D chess ...most can't even IMAGINE it, let alone attempt it. And THAT is EXACTLY the point.

For Wall Street to demand answers as they are today; for Dan Ives to think he understands how ingenuity actually works, with his pink suit and his chill Califonia stoner persona...pfffttttt!

Elon is the Musskiah because he is a real life Legend, a man that our children's children's children will know with certainty it is he who flew in the face of adversity and doubt in order to move humanity forward. Even more meaningfully, he does it with true humility and dignity. For anyone who doesn't understand this, I respect your alternative perspective, though I will not make it my own.

Typo

Not sure what you disagree with about my perspective. Seems we’re on the same page. But whatever.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Everyone ready for tomorrow? What's tomorrow you ask?
Elections in India start tomorrow through Jun 1.
I'm thinking Elon would wait until earnings to announce a new plan, but Modi/Elon could announce ahead of this period, any day, to gain support in India.
Nobody really knows... but these dots likely connect soon.

 

[CitizenKane]

The sentiment is literally almost always wrong as is the SP as a result. The two go hand in hand. There are brief periods where the SP and sentiment are correct. Very brief.

Of course you know that, knowing how the market works. Right? So why would you or I care about 39% bs in the short term. This is the LONG TERM investors thread. So, not only will I be getting back that 39% when the crooks are done, but I’ll realize significantly more when the great and mighty sentiment reverses as it always does. This isn’t my first rodeo. Not sure why you’d expect me to care about the white noise, seeing as you know how the market works.

You can continue to invest/divest by the emotional sentiment, but the deadman takes the pot. I raise you 139%.

Indeed. I wrote in another post that the markets are short term irrational and long term rational. If someone doesn't believe in that, investing in stocks is pointless. I rarely make short term trades, I am too lazy and not good at it. Selling a smaller part of my Tesla shares at 165 to reinvest proceeds in other US Tech stocks the other week was an exception. The jury is still out on whether it was smart.

But whatever I choose to do with my investments I am in forums like this to learn more and to question my beliefs. I try to stay curious, not judgmental. I have seen close hand how much money you can lose if you are too sure about your own opinions and I would like to avoid that mistake, if possible.

I don't want to presume to know too much about you but judging from your posts here, it seems like you and some other like minded posters are rather here to feed your confirmation bias. If so, that would be a form of what Troy referred to as "extreme fanboyism". Trying to stay open minded, objective and level headed is good for your success as an investor, in my view.

 

[Musskiah]

So not to be a teacher's pet, but I'm not a fan of advocating such. Tesla has put the safeguards there on purpose while in development, and we've seen FSD behavior change between versions (in some cases regress for some features). Not only does it endanger life, not only yours, but mine and the other folks around you, but the last thing Tesla needs is severe accidents that can be blamed (incorrectly) on FSD... you know how the media reacts to that...

Yes, I drive above the speed limit, don't always come to a complete stop, etc... not trying to be a hypocrite here... but foobling FSD, especially at this stage, is a different story, IMO.

[end of soapbox post]

I hear you. We all choose our risk tolerance I suppose.

 

[EVNow]

It never ceases to amaze how the usual suspects (Reuters, Bloomberg, Business Insider, etc) don't cover timely solutions Tesla delivers such as this...yet they always, ALWAYS inundate us with the problem. It's almost like the media focus is on the negative because they know the human psyche is developed to respond to negativity and fear disproportionately. Interesting that, yes?

VIN assignments have been happening - just the deliveries have stopped. When they resume the deliveries, let us see if anyone reports.

 

[JulieN08724]

There is another actuarial side to this that seems to be ignored:
Accident frequency is lower with FSD already, and with art will be much lower still;
Accident severity will be higher, maybe much higher, because of the notoriety attached to automation will make payouts higher when accidents happen, so incurred liability will be negatively affected.
Combining those two, frequency and severity, results in, eventually, prices.
The archetype for this is scheduled airplane crashes, very, very infrequent and very, very severe when they do happen.

True L4 and L5 are classic examples too, by definition.
Conclusion: insurance rates probably will not decline with RT.

 

[Drumheller]

It never ceases to amaze how the usual suspects (Reuters, Bloomberg, Business Insider, etc) don't cover timely solutions Tesla delivers such as this...yet they always, ALWAYS inundate us with the problem. It's almost like the media focus is on the negative because they know the human psyche is developed to respond to negativity and fear disproportionately. Interesting that, yes?

I don't get it. To me, this is like watching your favorite cartoon or drama series and being surprised or amazed when the villian shows up in each episode and behaves like the villian.

 

[cab]

Okay, you need to understand this is what YOU think. It may also be what some others whose comments you’ve read think.

I do not think this in anyway, shape, or form, and I factually know there are others not thinking it.





Classic focus on your pocketbook, swept up in the noise that’s meant to make you fearful, uncertain and doubtful. Your like PacMan running into the ghost at every intersection.

More importantly it also shows you don’t understand the company (or the man) you’re invested in, even a little bit.

You arrived several years late to the party and missed all of what made Tesla. You even missed all of what made SpaceX, which was inexorably intertwined with Tesla.

I understand none of what I’ve said now or in the past few days will resonate with you or give you a lightbulb moment. You can’t know what you haven’t lived.

Do you even know the story of the fourth ever attempt by SpaceX to get a rocket to orbit and what led up to that ‘final’ try?

Do you know the stories of Model S late 2012 and then early 2013?

Not the superficial fluff, but the stories by the people who lived it? Have you felt what those people felt?

Here’s your phone a friend clue: Elon never gives up. Elon won’t ever give up. Elon always has another plan working in his head that nobody knows - that’s where the whole 3D chess crap came from. People make a joke of it now, but it came from multiples of factual evidence that Elon is always thinking way ahead. He’s always got another possible solution.

What’s happening right now is classic Elon. It’s Elon at his very best. It’s the guy you want leading the charge. It’s the guy people have followed into the unknown for more than a decade.

Instead of fretting and wringing your hands and searching for all the ways this can’t work, you should be sitting back, sipping your favorite beverage, waiting for the fireworks show.

*This*, that’s about to happen, that’s happening, is a pivotal moment akin to Model S’s unanimous (never before, not since) MotorTrend’s 2013 Car of the Year. Not just in Tesla’s history, but will be viewed in the future as a pivotal moment in human history. It’s that pivotal fourth and final rocket attempt by SpaceX.

Simply. I’m manically laughing. Hardly anyone knows what’s about to happen. Most everyone is going to be wrong.

So, honest question since I respect your experience and perspective with Tesla. If Elon elects to leave Tesla (for whatever reason - health, fed up, voting investors deny him the pay package, etc) - does your position on Tesla and TSLA change?

 

[skybluecgreen]

I really don't care about the Q1 call next week, as that is all about what happened in the past. Any details about 8/8 and the future of Tesla are more important right now to clear up all this uncertainty.

I see the vote on the compensation package reinstatement as another risk factor. What will Elon do if he loses the vote?

 

[Krugerrand]

This is your opinion, but as someone who has been following Tesla very closely and daily since about 2015 I disagree 1000%.

You don’t post like someone

I've owned shares since early 2018, the majority of them were bought before mid 2019, was I really late to the party?

Yes.

This is true but Elon is not infallible, he has made mistakes before. I am simply hoping this "all in" on Robotaxis is not one of them.

Nobody ever said he wasn’t infallible. ‍

Won’t matter if he’s wrong or not.

I know you like to denigrate people who's opinions differ from your own, but do you feel its possible that YOU could be wrong about how this plays out too?

I’m not denigrating anyone. The short term thinking, white noise, dishonesty on display, and drama is entirely unnecessary and unhelpful in a long term investment forum.

Nope. I’m not wrong. I’m as sure as I was back in 2012 that Tesla would make it. Feel free to check the archives. I’ve predicted with boldness all along and much farther into the future. I have never doubted or waffled and as such have never gotten caught up in the repetitive panics over the years, thusly been rewarded richly.

None of us knows how the next few years will play out for Tesla, heck we don't know how 8/8 or Q1 ER will even go down. This is why we speculate and theorize, and talk to each other in this thread, discussing both the good AND the bad of being TSLA investors. As investors an echo chamber is our worst enemy, hearing varying opinions while consuming facts and data is beneficial to every TSLA investor.

And there’s that false echo chamber reference again. It’s never been an echo chamber here. Far too many fearful people, far too many agenda people here for that to ever happen.

Not everyone who questions Elon or is down on the stock right now are idiots, nor do they all have an agenda.

Didn’t say otherwise.

Maybe try to be a bit more lenient on posters who have different opinions from your own?

Factually, there are lots of different opinions I ignore/don’t comment on. But sure, I can refrain from responding to you. Consider it done.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The sentiment is literally almost always wrong as is the SP as a result. The two go hand in hand. There are brief periods where the SP and sentiment are correct. Very brief.

Of course you know that, knowing how the market works. Right? So why would you or I care about 39% bs in the short term. This is the LONG TERM investors thread. So, not only will I be getting back that 39% when the crooks are done, but I’ll realize significantly more when the great and mighty sentiment reverses as it always does. This isn’t my first rodeo. Not sure why you’d expect me to care about the white noise, seeing as you know how the market works.

You can continue to invest/divest by the emotional sentiment, but the deadman takes the pot. I raise you 139%.

Just noting the words "long term" do not appear in this thread's title as you insist.