Tesla TV apps (Netflix etc) frame rate = bad.

[beatle]

My 2019 is sitting outside until my 2015 sells, so I just checked my 2015 in the garage that also has MCU2. I recorded at 60fps and counted dropped 27 frames on playback.

If anyone doesn't see dropped frames in the "60fps tester" video, make sure you're watching the video in 60 fps. Sometimes YT doesn't give you the max quality automatically, and the lower quality videos are only 30fps. You can advance a YT video one frame at a time using the < > keys on your computer to go forward and backward (can't do this in the car). YouTube also has a "stats for nerds" that will display how many dropped frames you're getting on your video, but it's not available in the car that I can tell.

On the Macbook video you can advance one frame at a time and see the active frame with the brightest "hand." There will be two "ghost" hands behind it as most non-gaming oriented LCDs don't transition fast enough to avoid this blur. But you'll still see the active hand land on each frame index around the dial, showing that it is not dropping any frames.

 

[WilliamG]

My 2019 is sitting outside until my 2015 sells, so I just checked my 2015 in the garage that also has MCU2. I recorded at 60fps and counted dropped 27 frames on playback.

If anyone doesn't see dropped frames in the "60fps tester" video, make sure you're watching the video in 60 fps. Sometimes YT doesn't give you the max quality automatically, and the lower quality videos are only 30fps. You can advance a YT video one frame at a time using the < > keys on your computer to go forward and backward (can't do this in the car). YouTube also has a "stats for nerds" that will display how many dropped frames you're getting on your video, but it's not available in the car that I can tell.

On the Macbook video you can advance one frame at a time and see the active frame with the brightest "hand." There will be two "ghost" hands behind it as most non-gaming oriented LCDs don't transition fast enough to avoid this blur. But you'll still see the active hand land on each frame index around the dial, showing that it is not dropping any frames.

Thanks for that info. It boggles my mind that some people can't see it, but... I guess that's why we're left with the subpar experience we have in these cars in terms of video, - people simply don't notice.

That aside, it's pretty unacceptable a car with the power of the new S even experiences these problems.

 

[brkaus]

There is nothing great about viewing videos in the car. In the front seats, my neck is at an awkward angle with head tilted slightly down (and of course to the side). From the back seat it’s just too far away for my old eyes.

Sure. I watch an occasional video while charging, but it’s not great enough to even start fretting g s out frane rates (imho of course).

 

[WilliamG]

There is nothing great about viewing videos in the car. In the front seats, my neck is at an awkward angle with head tilted slightly down (and of course to the side). From the back seat it’s just too far away for my old eyes.

Sure. I watch an occasional video while charging, but it’s not great enough to even start fretting g s out frane rates (imho of course).

Hard to argue. It's a little better with the swiveling display in mid-2022 and on, but... yeah... the experience isn't great. Same goes for Steam and games that don't run that well, input latency, audio latency etc...

 

[WilliamG]

Here's some more videos for you, showing off Steam's pretty mediocre performance, with relation to... well, performance, and input latency and audio sync. During cutscenes in God of War, the characters look like they're dubbed.

For reference, you can lower the graphical settings of God of War to Low, and the game still performs the same, which tells me there's some optimization needed on the part of Tesla.

And here's the audio/input latency. I'm sure someone with more time on their hands can calculate the actual millisecond number...

@jebinc @Muzzman1 @beatle

 

[snorp]

I watched all youtube videos again on my Mac and all 3 look the same to me. Maybe the Tesla spinning stick has more what I would call legs on either side of it? Not enough for me to notice if I was looking for it.

I guess my brain post processes the videos differently than yours.

 

[WilliamG]

I watched all youtube videos again on my Mac and all 3 look the same to me. Maybe the Tesla spinning stick has more what I would call legs on either side of it? Not enough for me to notice if I was looking for it.

I guess my brain post processes the videos differently than yours.

I can’t disagree with you, of course. If you don’t see it, you don’t see it.

 

[yamanote]

The yoke is so stupid wide that it blocks half of the left side of the display, so I'm too busy moving my head around to see what's even on the screen to be worried about the frame rate.

 

[jebinc]

Here's some more videos for you, showing off Steam's pretty mediocre performance, with relation to... well, performance, and input latency and audio sync. During cutscenes in God of War, the characters look like they're dubbed.

For reference, you can lower the graphical settings of God of War to Low, and the game still performs the same, which tells me there's some optimization needed on the part of Tesla.

And here's the audio/input latency. I'm sure someone with more time on their hands can calculate the actual millisecond number...

@jebinc @Muzzman1 @beatle

Junk

 

[beatle]

The frame checker video in the Tesla actually has less ghosting so you see fewer "hands" than the Mac video. It seems like the car has a faster panel than the Mac, even if the CPU/GPU isn't able to render all the frames. The Mac is smooth, but it also smears things more than the car. This also highlights the speed of the panels. This is totally different than dropping frames though.

The lack of a constant 60fps seems normal for games unless you're running a lot of GPU horsepower. You can see it slow down when the camera pans to a more open area with more things and more effects to render. I don't know what the refresh cars have under the hood. I know it's Ryzen based, but I don't think it has a discrete GPU, does it? An APU won't get you to 60fps on AAA titles, but it should be able to play video without dropping frames while standing on its head.

As for the audio being out of sync, that's just silly. I have seen lag/sync issues when connecting to bluetooth devices, but not when the sound output is hard wired to an amplifier. Maybe there is a delay caused by the DSP? I'm sure they are delaying the audio output on some channels for time alignment purposes, but that's generally below 5ms.

 

[WilliamG]

The frame checker video in the Tesla actually has less ghosting so you see fewer "hands" than the Mac video. It seems like the car has a faster panel than the Mac, even if the CPU/GPU isn't able to render all the frames. The Mac is smooth, but it also smears things more than the car. This also highlights the speed of the panels. This is totally different than dropping frames though.

The lack of a constant 60fps seems normal for games unless you're running a lot of GPU horsepower. You can see it slow down when the camera pans to a more open area with more things and more effects to render. I don't know what the refresh cars have under the hood. I know it's Ryzen based, but I don't think it has a discrete GPU, does it? An APU won't get you to 60fps on AAA titles, but it should be able to play video without dropping frames while standing on its head.

As for the audio being out of sync, that's just silly. I have seen lag/sync issues when connecting to bluetooth devices, but not when the sound output is hard wired to an amplifier. Maybe there is a delay caused by the DSP? I'm sure they are delaying the audio output on some channels for time alignment purposes, but that's generally below 5ms.

Yeah this is a lot, lot more than 5ms a/v sync mismatch. I'll have to get some video of actual voices/heads so you can see the a/v sync issues more easily, too. And yes, the new Model S does have a discrete GPU. Power-wise it's in line with a PS5, but the overhead of Linux/Proton is causing issues here. God of War doesn't run at 60fps even with the lowest settings enabled. I don't see any fps difference between Ultra and Low settings, suggesting that Tesla has work to do with Valve/Steam to get this working correctly, rather than a power issue with the GPU. Other games run at solid 60fps, but a/v sync issues are consistently inconsistent.

 

[Zuikkis]

The thing is, most streaming stuff is crap on all platforms. Take Android TV apps for example. Netflix, youtube, disney, amazon... They don't sync display to video framerate. Utter rubbish. This is with apps running directly on the TV, and also with dedicated settop box like NVidia Shield. TV panel can be running at 60fps or whatever and video plays at 23.976fps, 25fps, 50fps or 60fps depending on the show.

If people don't see anything wrong in their living room TV there's no way they'll see it in Tesla's small display.

 

[WilliamG]

The thing is, most streaming stuff is crap on all platforms. Take Android TV apps for example. Netflix, youtube, disney, amazon... They don't sync display to video framerate. Utter rubbish. This is with apps running directly on the TV, and also with dedicated settop box like NVidia Shield. TV panel can be running at 60fps or whatever and video plays at 23.976fps, 25fps, 50fps or 60fps depending on the show.

If people don't see anything wrong in their living room TV there's no way they'll see it in Tesla's small display.

Yep, agreed. Oh well, - it is what it is.

 

[vcor]

The yoke is so stupid wide that it blocks half of the left side of the display, so I'm too busy moving my head around to see what's even on the screen to be worried about the frame rate.

A round steering wheel blocks even more of the display. Ok, you could create a driver profile with the steering wheel down and in as far as it will go. Move the seat back as well. Obviously, it also depends on your body size. I suspect some people will have the steering wheel blocking some of the display anyway.

 

[Muzzman1]

Here's some more videos for you, showing off Steam's pretty mediocre performance, with relation to... well, performance, and input latency and audio sync. During cutscenes in God of War, the characters look like they're dubbed.

For reference, you can lower the graphical settings of God of War to Low, and the game still performs the same, which tells me there's some optimization needed on the part of Tesla.

And here's the audio/input latency. I'm sure someone with more time on their hands can calculate the actual millisecond number...

@jebinc @Muzzman1 @beatle

I would attribute that type of delay to the fact that it's running in a VM. I see those types of delays when setting up VM's.

 

[WilliamG]

I would attribute that type of delay to the fact that it's running in a VM. I see those types of delays when setting up VM's.

Steam Deck doesn’t have this sort of delay, though… and it runs the “same” way as the car does.

 

[mulot30th]

Could be worse!

Netflix plays wonderfully on mine while Youtube, plays extremely uneven frame rate (from like 5 fps to 24 fps I would say)

I would say youtube is 100% useless on my model S while netflix perfect

 

[WilliamG]

Could be worse!

Netflix plays wonderfully on mine while Youtube, plays extremely uneven frame rate (from like 5 fps to 24 fps I would say)

I would say youtube is 100% useless on my model S while netflix perfect

That’s odd. 5-24fps?! What on earth? That’s a very different issue…

 

[BlackBolt]

Serious question:

How does anyone watch anything in any serious manner in their Tesla? For example, the frame-rate is so poor/uneven it's maddening. For something advertised as the best place to watch movies etc, I'm amazed there's been zero improvement for this over the years. It was bad in the Model 3, and it's still bad in the new Model S. For those sensitive to frame times and frame-rates, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Stutter stutter stutter. It's really easy to see, especially in scrolling tickers in e.g. Fox Sports 1.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

@WilliamG I have the same issue you’re having. Perhaps others on this thread aren’t sensitive to low frame rates, but like you, I am, and personally, it’s a serious problem. It’s annoying and gives me a headache. So much for my expensive MCU upgrade. Either poor decoding, poor hardware, or both. Sad and disappointing either way!

 

[WilliamG]

@WilliamG I have the same issue you’re having. Perhaps others on this thread aren’t sensitive to low frame rates, but like you, I am, and personally, it’s a serious problem. It’s annoying and gives me a headache. So much for my expensive MCU upgrade. Either poor decoding, poor hardware, or both. Sad and disappointing either way!

Yep, it’s pretty rubbish. No Tesla can run regular video playback without it being stuttery. Shame most people don’t notice, but it’s really bad.