Hyperbole might be calling it insane. TSLA has been lucky so far but the clock is ticking. The bullseye is on their back. As Bezos said, "your margin is my opportunity."
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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
I read this and it sounds like slavery to be in the union, the very thing they fight against. Like it or not, they are pressured to block Tesla delivery, or risk losing their own job.
navguy12
Active Member
The story has made it into the Guardian.
www.theguardian.com
Elon Musk calls strikes ‘insane’ as Swedish workers take on Tesla
Strike at carmaker prompts sympathy action from dockers, painters and postal workers in fight over Swedish labour model
www.theguardian.com
What the percentage of trade unions does this planet have? How much benefits and destruction do the unions bring to people on this planet?
And workers are losing their jobs as their companies are forced to give up business to Tesla. Which is another good reason for Tesla to not join unions, Tesla would have to boycott Spotify if Spotify refuses to sign the collective agreement.
The union is bluffing. They are putting so much pressure on the small companies that they will break unless Tesla gives up soon. They are going allin on this bet but their hand is not strong. But we will see if Tesla are gonna fold or not, if Tesla decides to call it will get ugly for the union...
A way to get around the block of number plates:
Ok, then this should work in cases where Postnord has stolen the signs:
1. Tesla informs the buyer that the car is on site in Sweden.
2. The buyer signs the purchase with Bank-Id from home (the car changes owners).
3. The buyer orders new signs from the Swedish Transport Agency.
4. The Swedish Transport Agency sends the new plates directly to the home of the owner of the vehicle (which is now the buyer).
5. The buyer brings the signs to Tesla.
6. Tesla mounts the signs on the car.
7. The buyer drives away. All is peace and joy (?)
8. Tesla reports Postnord to the police for theft
---
Mikael Andersson, press manager at Transportstyrelsen, replied:
"Hello. A car owner never needs to justify ordering a new license plate. It is not uncommon for one not to know what happened to their original plate. What is relevant, however, is as you are aware that a plate is always delivered to the owner on the information we have in our records. If the car is on Tesla when a new license plate is ordered, that license plate also goes to Tesla. If another person is the owner, the license plate automatically goes to him. Regarding the matter of whether the police should issue temporary license plates, I'm not sure if the police would put a wanted mark in the road traffic register based on problems linked to a strike. But that's a matter for the police to decide on. Also, temporary signs are made of cardboard because they should really only last for the time it normally takes for a replacement sign to reach the owner.
"Home-made" signs are not permitted. The only plates that are valid are those provided by the authority."
Ok, then this should work in cases where Postnord has stolen the signs:
1. Tesla informs the buyer that the car is on site in Sweden.
2. The buyer signs the purchase with Bank-Id from home (the car changes owners).
3. The buyer orders new signs from the Swedish Transport Agency.
4. The Swedish Transport Agency sends the new plates directly to the home of the owner of the vehicle (which is now the buyer).
5. The buyer brings the signs to Tesla.
6. Tesla mounts the signs on the car.
7. The buyer drives away. All is peace and joy (?)
8. Tesla reports Postnord to the police for theft
---
Mikael Andersson, press manager at Transportstyrelsen, replied:
"Hello. A car owner never needs to justify ordering a new license plate. It is not uncommon for one not to know what happened to their original plate. What is relevant, however, is as you are aware that a plate is always delivered to the owner on the information we have in our records. If the car is on Tesla when a new license plate is ordered, that license plate also goes to Tesla. If another person is the owner, the license plate automatically goes to him. Regarding the matter of whether the police should issue temporary license plates, I'm not sure if the police would put a wanted mark in the road traffic register based on problems linked to a strike. But that's a matter for the police to decide on. Also, temporary signs are made of cardboard because they should really only last for the time it normally takes for a replacement sign to reach the owner.
"Home-made" signs are not permitted. The only plates that are valid are those provided by the authority."
If everyone else is jumping off of a cliff are you going to follow them and jump off as well? That isn't a good reason, even if it was true, which it isn't. Not everyone else in Sweden has signed a collective agreement.
And what does Tesla gain by signing an agreement? An end to the extortion, blackmail, and harassment by the Unions? And if they did sign one then at the direction of IF Metall, Tesla, and their employees, would have to extort, blackmail, and harasses other companies that didn't want to sign a collective agreement? Yeah, no thanks.
It is Tesla's legal right to not sign a collective agreement and participate in the disgusting behavior of the unions. And especially since the employees themselves don't want one, why is it better to force both a company and its employees to do something they don't want to do?
Teslastrejk hotar jobb på svensk fabrik: ”Stor oro” | Carup.se
Imorgon stannar maskinerna som gör Tesladelar hos Hydro Extrusion i Vetlanda. Nu fruktar företaget att IF Metalls strejk kommer leda till att jobben är hotade för personalen som tillverkar åt Tesla.– Mitt ärliga svar på den frågan är ja, faktiskt, om det här inte löser sig snabbt, säger Hydro...
carup-se.translate.goog
Tesla strike threatens jobs at Swedish factory: "Great concern"
News 23 November 2023, 15:36by Maths NilssonTomorrow, the machines that make Tesla parts will stop at Hydro Extrusion in Vetlanda. Now the company fears that IF Metall's strike will lead to the jobs being threatened for the staff who manufacture for Tesla.
- My honest answer to that question is yes, actually, if this is not resolved quickly, says Hydro Extrusion's CEO Jonas Bjuhr to Vetlandaposten .
During Friday, there will be another escalation of the Tesla strike. Then IF Metall takes out Hydro Extrusions, which manufactures aluminum parts for Tesla's Berlin factory, on strike. The plan is that the factory in Berlin will not be able to manufacture cars when important parts are missing.
- Without that detail, you cannot deliver the car. So it is very noticeable, says IF Metall's Veli-Pekka Säikkälä to Dagens Arbete.
Hydro Extrusions in Vetlanda has its own collective agreement and around 50 employees are now affected by the strike, even though the company is not a party to the conflict. CEO Jonas Bjuhr believes that Tesla can quickly replace the parts with other suppliers, so the union's hopes that it will close Tesla's factory in Berlin will not be fulfilled in that case. The strike may instead have as the only consequence that Swedish jobs are now threatened and moving elsewhere.
- It is nothing unusual, so I am convinced that all the customers we work with have a plan for how to handle a situation when it stops, says Bjuhr to Vetlandaposten .
When Tesla quickly replaces the Swedish parts with parts from other suppliers, it is not certain that they will return and then there will be layoffs at Hydro Extrusions in Vetlanda.
- So our wish is really that there can be a solution quickly. It is clear that we want to protect jobs in Vetlanda, jobs in Finspång and jobs in Sweden in general. It is what is the big concern here that if it becomes long-term, it could have consequences that are greater than what we see now, says Jonas Bjuhr.
Some people think eventually Tesla must bow to the union like Toy R Us. But Toys R Us case was 30 years ago. Now the time has changed. The unions and collective bargain power in Sweden are in decline today.
"...representatives of both unions and employers have repeatedly expressed that the decline in union density could pose an existential threat for the Swedish model in the long term. As mentioned, collective bargaining has not budged – yet. But it may well be that threshold effects can lead to a tipping point when declining union density will push down collective bargaining coverage. Scholars and union representatives have pointed to Germany, where a similar downward trend in union density eventually caused employers to defect from employer associations and hence sectoral collective agreements, causing a substantial drop in collective bargaining coverage."
onlabor.org
"Swedish unions maintain impressive façades. But those who enter them are likely to meet a dead bureaucracy or a rather empty shell. No one can predict the future of Swedish unions..."
"...the membership of LO unions has declined from about 2.2 million members in the mid-1980s to about 1.4 million today."
organizing.work
"...representatives of both unions and employers have repeatedly expressed that the decline in union density could pose an existential threat for the Swedish model in the long term. As mentioned, collective bargaining has not budged – yet. But it may well be that threshold effects can lead to a tipping point when declining union density will push down collective bargaining coverage. Scholars and union representatives have pointed to Germany, where a similar downward trend in union density eventually caused employers to defect from employer associations and hence sectoral collective agreements, causing a substantial drop in collective bargaining coverage."
Worrying Signs from the World’s Most Unionized Country ✦ OnLabor
German Bender on Sweden's eroding labor power.
onlabor.org
"Swedish unions maintain impressive façades. But those who enter them are likely to meet a dead bureaucracy or a rather empty shell. No one can predict the future of Swedish unions..."
"...the membership of LO unions has declined from about 2.2 million members in the mid-1980s to about 1.4 million today."
Swedish unions, why do we suck?
Swedish unions’ ability to defend workers’ interests is declining, argues Rasmus Hästbacka, showing that high union density is no guarantee of strength or militancy.
organizing.work
Last edited:
mars_or_bust
Member
Some people think eventually Tesla must bow to the union like Toy R Us. But Toys R Us case was 30 years ago. Now the time has changed. The unions and collective bargain power in Sweden are in decline today.
"...representatives of both unions and employers have repeatedly expressed that the decline in union density could pose an existential threat for the Swedish model in the long term. As mentioned, collective bargaining has not budged – yet. But it may well be that threshold effects can lead to a tipping point when declining union density will push down collective bargaining coverage. Scholars and union representatives have pointed to Germany, where a similar downward trend in union density eventually caused employers to defect from employer associations and hence sectoral collective agreements, causing a substantial drop in collective bargaining coverage."
Worrying Signs from the World’s Most Unionized Country ✦ OnLabor
German Bender on Sweden's eroding labor power.
"Swedish unions maintain impressive façades. But those who enter them are likely to meet a dead bureaucracy or a rather empty shell. No one can predict the future of Swedish unions..."
"...the membership of LO unions has declined from about 2.2 million members in the mid-1980s to about 1.4 million today."
Swedish unions, why do we suck?
Swedish unions’ ability to defend workers’ interests is declining, argues Rasmus Hästbacka, showing that high union density is no guarantee of strength or militancy.
I used to live in the UK when the last great European ruler was in power there. Maggie of course.
It was pure joy to watch her systematically and ruthlessly demolish the unions there. She saved the British economy then. Too bad her successors are mere mental and political pygmies compared to her.
If Sweden wants a bright future, it needs a Thatcher figure as leader (actually true for every single European country, but no Maggie II in sight....), who was willing to send in the army against the unions
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
"I don't ever give up."
-Elon Musk.
“You just can’t beat the person who won’t give up.”
-Babe Ruth
Question to those at IF Metall who believe Elon and Tesla are going to give in and sign an agreement:
It is true, Elon often does not deliver on time. But please name the last time Elon Musk gave up.
-Elon Musk.
“You just can’t beat the person who won’t give up.”
-Babe Ruth
Question to those at IF Metall who believe Elon and Tesla are going to give in and sign an agreement:
It is true, Elon often does not deliver on time. But please name the last time Elon Musk gave up.
Agreed. I now see that Elon will not back down; he sees this as both an affront to Tesla and a threat to the mission.
Tesla has deep pockets and will be willing to feel some pain for awhile here to rebuild a system to deliver and maintain cars in Sweden, whatever that entails and whatever it costs.
I get the impression from our Swedish friends that Metall is powerful and connected, but I think I see Tesla winning here, and the longer it goes, the worse for Metall and for small Swedish businesses caught in the middle.
Curious if others see it this way.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I suspect those poor small businesses will pressure the union to back off when they start REALLY feeling the pain.
Second source the extruded aluminum part (outside Sweden), sign the Union agreement until this is no longer a part constraint, then close the doors in Sweden. Enough already!
Krugerrand
Meow
I imagine the part was second sourced a long time ago given the plan Tesla has had all along; local suppliers for every factory to improve all efficiencies and pass savings onto customers.
The part can simply come from another continent. I’d guess China at first because they’re the hardest working people and have been quickest all along to get things made. There’s also now an opportunity for a different European company to supply the part to Tesla. And don’t think that some enterprising company/companies haven’t been contacting Tesla since the start of all this. It’s what I’d do as a business owner. What a glorious door opening opportunity. Heck, maybe there’s a company or two that were originally turned down. They’d now have a second chance.
Zero reason to sign a collective agreement as long as it hinders Tesla’s business culture and employees are happy with that culture.
How about the union changes the content of the collective agreement that doesn’t suit Tesla? Isn’t the whole point supposed to be a win for all? So make the agreement a win for Tesla and a win for employees, then by extension it’s a win for the union.
IF Metall has (had) an opportunity to be innovative and bring Sweden and its people into a new, more dynamic era of business created by Tesla and its mission.
Complete union fail.
Tesla cannot give in here. The Mission is far too important and if they believe the way they do business is required to see The Mission to the end then they need to stick to their guns.
The Mission is more important than a union. Indeed, it’s more important than one country, but I wouldn’t like to see Tesla leave Sweden. I’d like to see them show Sweden that there’s alternative ways that are just as good, perhaps even better.
I commend the IDEA of standing together as one (sympathy striking) for the greater good.
I do not commend forced sacrificial lambs (threatening businesses, workers and union members with no dog in the fight) for one entity’s/one’s personal gain (only IF Metall wins in this circumstance).
I do not commend dying on a mole hill as if it were a mountain. Tesla wasn’t breaking any labour laws and employees were overwhelmingly content for YEARS. What even!?
Probably it's better to buy the Sweden company and bring it to a different country.
Maybe I should qualify my harshness earlier; sounds like I'm taking my ball and going home which is ironically what I say to others. However, Swedish people should also realize that any possible future in Tesla manufacturing job space is at risk, that they will not stop Tesla, and that their economy may lose in the end.
It’s not a Swedish company, they have factories in many countries including China. They will likely just shift production from Sweden to China and downsize their Swedish operations…
Hydro Extrusions
In Hydro Extrusions, Hydro has the largest global aluminium extrusion-based solutions operation in the world, counting 100 production sites in more than 40 countries.
www.hydro.com
Danish Unions sends out a waring:
jv.dk
Dansk Metal issues warning: - Tesla is a threat to our wage and employment conditions in Denmark - Swedish blockade may spread
Tesla in Ribe is not yet covered by any strike or blockade. But if Danish trade unions follow the Swedish and go out with sympathy blockades, it can become rather boring to be a Tesla owner. Photo: Jacob Schultz
Soon Tesla's service center in Ribe will be joined by several centers across the country and more employees. At the same time, a conflict between Danish trade unions and Tesla threatens, which could also affect Tesla's workshop in Ribe.
Ribe: Denmark's best-selling electric cars, the American Tesla, continue to be serviced by employees without a collective agreement, i.a. at Tesla's center in Ribe. There have been attempts to get through to Tesla on the part of the trade unions, both in Sweden and in Denmark, but this has not yet resulted in an agreement on a collective agreement.
The employees in the Swedish workshops have been on strike since October 27, and according to the Swedish conciliator between the Swedish Metal Association and Tesla, Kurt Eriksson, the CEO himself, Elon Musk, has intervened and dictated that there will be no collective agreements. More than 100 workshops in Sweden now refuse to service cars from Tesla, and the conflict seems to have reached a dead end.
Dansk Metal follows it closely
Dansk Metal in Denmark has therefore chosen to issue a public statement on Thursday about the situation in Sweden, which is completely parallel to Denmark:
- It is a big problem and a threat to our wages and working conditions in Denmark that there are companies that do not want to sign a collective agreement. We have exactly the same problem in Denmark with Tesla as they have in Sweden. So we follow what happens up there very closely, and of course we are also pushing for Tesla to sign a collective agreement at its workshops in Denmark. We have not yet taken a decision on whether professional steps should be taken at home, says Dansk Metal's deputy chairman René Nielsen in a statement.
The conflict may therefore be on its way to Denmark as well. In any case, the Swedish transport unions have organized a blockade of Tesla cars in Swedish ports, which may also affect Denmark. Tesla will probably try to use Danish ports to get Tesla cars to Sweden.
In addition, both parcel post and painting work to and for Tesla in Sweden are affected by a blockade from Swedish workers. From 17 November, this also applies to the cleaning of Tesla's locations in Sweden.
- There will be more of this kind
Local chairman of Metal's Esbjerg branch, Dan Holmgaard Rasmussen, has previously told JV that he sees worrying trends in the terms of Danish collective agreements when large multinational companies come to Denmark.
- We have also had problems with French Total in Esbjerg, and there will be more of this kind. The big companies have a different mentality, but I don't quite understand why they hesitate to agree to a collective agreement when there is such a great shortage of labour, especially skilled workers in the field of Metals, and they have to compete for them, points out Dan Holmgaard Rasmussen.
A collective agreement provides, among other things, the employee security for conditions such as pay during illness, holiday, working hours, notices of termination and the like.
Tesla doesn't say much
Tesla has chosen not to comment on the conflict in front of several media outlets, but earlier this month they made a statement to the Swedish media:
- It is regrettable that IF Metall (Swedish Metal Association, ed.) has initiated these actions. Tesla follows the Swedish labor market rules, but like many other companies has chosen not to enter into a collective agreement. We already offer equivalent or better terms than those covered by collective bargaining, and see no reason to enter into another agreement, writes Tesla.
On Thursday, Tesla issued a press release stating that the car giant will soon open service centers in Hillerød, Kastrup, Greve, Aarhus and Odense and hire more employees.
Dansk Metal udsender advarsel: - Tesla er en trussel mod vores løn- og ansættelsesvilkår i Danmark - svensk blokade kan sprede sig
Snart får Teslas servicecenter i Ribe følgeskab af flere centre over hele landet og flere ansatte. Samtidig truer en konflikt mellem danske fagforeninger og Tesla, der også kan ramme Teslas værksted i Ribe.
jv.dk
Dansk Metal issues warning: - Tesla is a threat to our wage and employment conditions in Denmark - Swedish blockade may spread
Tesla in Ribe is not yet covered by any strike or blockade. But if Danish trade unions follow the Swedish and go out with sympathy blockades, it can become rather boring to be a Tesla owner. Photo: Jacob Schultz
Soon Tesla's service center in Ribe will be joined by several centers across the country and more employees. At the same time, a conflict between Danish trade unions and Tesla threatens, which could also affect Tesla's workshop in Ribe.
Ribe: Denmark's best-selling electric cars, the American Tesla, continue to be serviced by employees without a collective agreement, i.a. at Tesla's center in Ribe. There have been attempts to get through to Tesla on the part of the trade unions, both in Sweden and in Denmark, but this has not yet resulted in an agreement on a collective agreement.
The employees in the Swedish workshops have been on strike since October 27, and according to the Swedish conciliator between the Swedish Metal Association and Tesla, Kurt Eriksson, the CEO himself, Elon Musk, has intervened and dictated that there will be no collective agreements. More than 100 workshops in Sweden now refuse to service cars from Tesla, and the conflict seems to have reached a dead end.
Dansk Metal follows it closely
Dansk Metal in Denmark has therefore chosen to issue a public statement on Thursday about the situation in Sweden, which is completely parallel to Denmark:
- It is a big problem and a threat to our wages and working conditions in Denmark that there are companies that do not want to sign a collective agreement. We have exactly the same problem in Denmark with Tesla as they have in Sweden. So we follow what happens up there very closely, and of course we are also pushing for Tesla to sign a collective agreement at its workshops in Denmark. We have not yet taken a decision on whether professional steps should be taken at home, says Dansk Metal's deputy chairman René Nielsen in a statement.
The conflict may therefore be on its way to Denmark as well. In any case, the Swedish transport unions have organized a blockade of Tesla cars in Swedish ports, which may also affect Denmark. Tesla will probably try to use Danish ports to get Tesla cars to Sweden.
In addition, both parcel post and painting work to and for Tesla in Sweden are affected by a blockade from Swedish workers. From 17 November, this also applies to the cleaning of Tesla's locations in Sweden.
- There will be more of this kind
Local chairman of Metal's Esbjerg branch, Dan Holmgaard Rasmussen, has previously told JV that he sees worrying trends in the terms of Danish collective agreements when large multinational companies come to Denmark.
- We have also had problems with French Total in Esbjerg, and there will be more of this kind. The big companies have a different mentality, but I don't quite understand why they hesitate to agree to a collective agreement when there is such a great shortage of labour, especially skilled workers in the field of Metals, and they have to compete for them, points out Dan Holmgaard Rasmussen.
A collective agreement provides, among other things, the employee security for conditions such as pay during illness, holiday, working hours, notices of termination and the like.
Tesla doesn't say much
Tesla has chosen not to comment on the conflict in front of several media outlets, but earlier this month they made a statement to the Swedish media:
- It is regrettable that IF Metall (Swedish Metal Association, ed.) has initiated these actions. Tesla follows the Swedish labor market rules, but like many other companies has chosen not to enter into a collective agreement. We already offer equivalent or better terms than those covered by collective bargaining, and see no reason to enter into another agreement, writes Tesla.
On Thursday, Tesla issued a press release stating that the car giant will soon open service centers in Hillerød, Kastrup, Greve, Aarhus and Odense and hire more employees.
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