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Tesla Unionization

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#341
BioSehnsucht said:
Actually, that's pretty easy, they just have to do the same thing to whatever shop hires the blacklisted personnel as they're doing to Tesla. Yes, they can't prevent hiring itself directly via their agreements... but they can leverage the existing agreements to punish and run out of business anyone who does hire someone who was blacklisted, then rinse and repeat until every business is too afraid to go against their mandate. Might not even have to do it more than once.

If they actually went down this path though, their mafia-esque techniques would become even more obvious, perhaps to the point that they would get shut down legally by lawsuits using whatever the local equivalent to RICO laws are (more specifically, extortion and racketeering related laws seem most relevant).
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Sweden is not the US. As you may have noticed by now the unions can do stuff in Sweden that I'm guessing they can not do in the US. And Sweden doesn't have any kind of such RICO, "extortion" or "racketeering" laws. We do have such laws aimed at corporations though... ;)

Everything the unions have done this far is within the letter of the Swedish Law.
 
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#342
SwedishAdvocate said:
Sweden is not the US. As you may have noticed by now the unions can do stuff in Sweden that I'm guessing they can not do in the US. And Sweden doesn't have any kind of such RICO, "extortion" or "racketeering" laws. We do have such laws aimed at corporations though... ;)

Everything the unions have done this far is within the letter of the Swedish Law.
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Um. Wowsers. '.. within the letter of the Swedish Law.'

The U.S. has a fairly bloody history of unions vs. companies (and that's not a British swear word, we're talking broken heads and worse). Unlike Marx, who thought that unions leading to Communism was a inevitable, saner heads eventually got together and managed to put in a bunch of manageable labor laws. I won't say that they're perfect, far from it. But if there's one rule that seems to be followed fairly closely, it's that individuals have both the right to band into a union as well as the right not to join a union. There's this thing about involuntary servitude that we fought a war over here about, and nobody wants to revisit that again.

The idea that individuals can be forced against their will to join a union is a non-starter on this side of the pond. Given Europe's general individual rights agenda, I'm rather surprised that Swedish law allows for that kind of thing. I thought people were free over there.

Again, wowsers.
 
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#343
Tronguy said:
Um. Wowsers. '.. within the letter of the Swedish Law.'

The U.S. has a fairly bloody history of unions vs. companies (and that's not a British swear word, we're talking broken heads and worse). Unlike Marx, who thought that unions leading to Communism was a inevitable, saner heads eventually got together and managed to put in a bunch of manageable labor laws. I won't say that they're perfect, far from it. But if there's one rule that seems to be followed fairly closely, it's that individuals have both the right to band into a union as well as the right not to join a union. There's this thing about involuntary servitude that we fought a war over here about, and nobody wants to revisit that again.

The idea that individuals can be forced against their will to join a union is a non-starter on this side of the pond. Given Europe's general individual rights agenda, I'm rather surprised that Swedish law allows for that kind of thing. I thought people were free over there.

Again, wowsers.
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No-one is forced to join a union. You clearly misunderstood that part.
 
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#348
SO16 said:
This is mob style [...
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The same way as Democracy is "mob style"?...

90% of employees in Sweden are covered by Collective agreements.

Some 70% of employees in Sweden are union members.

The unions have pretty strong support in Sweden. That's the "mob" you are referring to here.

And on the other side of this conflict we have... Tesla's CEO.

There's a saying in Sweden – 'Abide by the customs of the country that you have arrived to.' You seem to have basically the same thing in English – When in Rome, do as the Romans do. ;)
 
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#350
Takumi said:
The question still has not been answered: What exactly does the union offer that's better than what Tesla is offering its employees?
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1. No-one knows since Tesla's contracts are not public information.

2. Tesla employees are on strike. Why would they strike if there was no reason?

3. If Tesla's contracts are the exact same as the Collective agreements that the union wants Tesla to sign – then what's the problem? Why can't Tesla just sign the Collective agreement like everyone else of their size in this sector has already done?
 
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#351
Tesla won.

www.aftonbladet.se

Tesla får ut sina registreringsskyltar

Tesla får hämta ut sina registreringsskyltar hos tillverkaren Scandinavian Motorcenter. Om inte Transportstyrelsen går med på det inom sju dagar väntar böter på
www.aftonbladet.se www.aftonbladet.se

Tesla can collect its license plates from the manufacturer Scandinavian Motorcenter.
If the Swedish Transport Agency does not agree within seven days, a fine of one million kroner awaits, Norrköping district court decided on Monday afternoon.
- It is true that there has been a decision in which they approve Tesla's lawsuit, says lawyer Johannes Ericson to Aftonbladet.
Via its Swedish law firm Setterwalls, Tesla submitted two lawsuits on Monday, against the Swedish Transport Agency and PostNord.
In the lawsuit against the Swedish Transport Agency - which was submitted to the Norrköping District Court - Tesla also demanded that, on an interim basis, i.e. temporarily, get out the registration plates that the Swedish Transport Agency has forbidden the manufacturer Scandinavian Motorcenter to hand out directly to Tesla.

On Monday afternoon, the Norrköping District Court granted Tesla's request:
- Yes, it is true that there has been a decision in which they approve Tesla's lawsuit, says lawyer Johannes Ericson at Setterwall's law firm.
What do they approve of?
- They approve the interim request. They say that the Swedish Transport Agency must give consent for Tesla to pick up the license plates from the manufacturer of license plates.
At a fine of SEK 1 million?
- Exactly, that's right. Within seven days.
What do you think of the decision from the Norrköping district court?
- I have no comments regarding the decision. Tesla will be responsible for any comments regarding the decision, says Ericson.
In the lawsuit against PostNord, submitted to the Solna district court, Tesla also demanded an interim decision that PostNord must hand over the shipments with license plates to Tesla.
Lawyer Johannes Ericson says that the Solna District Court has not announced a decision on the matter:
- Not yet, says Ericson.
 
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#353
SO16 said:
So the govt agency just out of the blue decided to stop sending plates unrelated to the union?
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No. The gov. agency sent the plates by using a non-government postal company. And the plates got stuck at that postal company. The court ruled that Tesla shall be able to collect the plates directly at the private company that manufactures the plates.
 
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#355
SwedishAdvocate said:
1. No-one knows since Tesla's contracts are not public information.
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Apparently the union's collective agreements are not public either... So there is nothing for us to compare from either side.

SwedishAdvocate said:
2. Tesla employees are on strike. Why would they strike if there was no reason?
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Well some employees are on strike. Reportedly less than 10%. Why? Likely because they were already union members from prior employment and they want things to be like they always have been, in which case they should go work for a legacy automaker/service center. (Or maybe they are just really lazy and like that the union will pay them 130% of their Tesla wages to stay home and not work. 🤣 )

SwedishAdvocate said:
3. If Tesla's contracts are the exact same as the Collective agreements that the union wants Tesla to sign – then what's the problem? Why can't Tesla just sign the Collective agreement like everyone else of their size in this sector has already done?
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Because Tesla isn't a lemming, and won't just follow everyone else off the cliff?

Nobody is saying it is exactly the same, we know it wouldn't be. For example, I think Tesla would have to pay into the union's pension plan instead of the current one they use. Also, we have been told that the agreement would require Tesla to pigeonhole worker's responsibilities, so that they couldn't be moved to other duties as needed. We have been told is that the majority of the worker's feel that Tesla is paying better than the collective agreement would, and that they think the working conditions at Tesla are better than at places with a collective agreement.

Instead of just saying Tesla should sign because everyone does, which they don't, why don't you list some specific examples where signing would benefit the workers? How about specific examples where it would benefit Tesla? You can't can you? Why? Because the union won't share any information. (Likely because the collective agreement wouldn't actually benefit Tesla or the workers, it would only be beneficial to the union.)
 
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#359
samppa said:
unions collective agreements should be public in sweden, no? At least here its all public information
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Apparently, they are not. From this thread on X:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722317191184343394

Myth 5.

Collective agreements create predictable conditions for everyone

Incorrect. Collective agreements are secret. It is therefore not possible to stand outside the party model and ask to know what is in them. The answer then is that the company must sign the agreement to be able to take part in the fine print content, says Lise-Lotte Argulander.
Click to expand...
 
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