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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
It seems like they get paid based on years. (I don't know if that is years at a particular employer or years employed by any company that is covered under a collective agreement with IF Metall.)
Unions tend to hate performance based pay. (In the union I am in, I am guaranteed steps in pay raise every year regardless of my performance. The same pay if I put in minimal effort or put in way more effort and perform excellently. (Annual performance review means nothing, and does not impact pay.)
@MP3Mike, there, right there, is one of the major reasons that Unions Can Be Bad.
Bad performer? Who cares! So long as it's not quite bad enough to get one fired. What if everybody slacks off? Who cares! It's all Time In Grade.
Anybody who does something spectacular? No Change. And gets yelled at by the slackers who say, "You're making us look bad. Knock it off." And if one doesn't knock it off.. Well, your co-workers can make your life hell if you don't toe the bad-performance line.
Got a bunch of people working at half speed? Then the company needs to hire more workers, who all work at half speed. That's good for the Union: More members who pay dues. Lousy for the company, which has to beg people to work.
Keep this up for a while and the opinion of management regarding the line workers tends to go south. And then that opinion gets institutionalized right on up to the CEO. And the workers? Hey, management is evil! What do we care, so long as we get paid!
And then people wonder why the likes of GM and Ford move their plants out of the country.
Yeah... people who actually want to work and do well for the company can and do result in a good workplace; it happens because, well, people are nice, mostly.
But remember those kids in the back of the class in school who, while they may have been smart, were lazy and didn't want to learn? And did their level best to slow the class down? Unfortunately, there's a lot of union people like that. Not all the time. But enough of the time to give unions a bad name.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Yeah... Did we read the same article?...
What does this mean?
"Hur många är det som strejkar?
– Över hälften av alla bilmekaniker på Tesla är medlemmar hos oss, säger han.
Veli-Pekka medger att det finns fackmedlemmar bland dem som fortfarande jobbar, och därmed agerar strejkbrytare. Men de ska vara få, och inte påverka helhetsbilden att över hälften av Teslas verkstadsarbetare är ute i strejk. [My u.]"
--> Here's my free of charge translation of those two last sentences:
'Veli-Pekka admits that there are union members among those still working [at Tesla in Sweden] and are therefore in effect strikebreakers. But those are few, and does not affect 'the overall picture' that more than half of the mechanics at Tesla are on strike.'
Så många strejkar på Tesla – IF Metall går ut med siffra
Tesla hävdar att över 90 procent av personalen arbetar, trots strejken. Nu går IF Metall ut med en egen siffra.
da.se
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chiller
Member
I stand corrected, sorry.Yeah... Did we read the same article?...
What does this mean?
"Hur många är det som strejkar?
– Över hälften av alla bilmekaniker på Tesla är medlemmar hos oss, säger han.
Veli-Pekka medger att det finns fackmedlemmar bland dem som fortfarande jobbar, och därmed agerar strejkbrytare. Men de ska vara få, och inte påverka helhetsbilden att över hälften av Teslas verkstadsarbetare är ute i strejk. [My u.]"
Here's my free of charge translation of that last sentence:
'Veli-Pekka admits that there are union members among those still working [at Tesla in Sweden] and are therefore in effect strikebreakers. But those are few, and does not affect that more than half of the mechanics at Tesla are on strike.'
Så många strejkar på Tesla – IF Metall går ut med siffra
Tesla hävdar att över 90 procent av personalen arbetar, trots strejken. Nu går IF Metall ut med en egen siffra.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
That part of the text is not about the total amount of mechanics on strike.
That part is about how many union members that are not participating in the strike. And he doesn't want to answer that question.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
johnnycnote
Member
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
As I have understood Elon – more than 50% of workers is the metric at which he by his own admission is ready to negotiate with a union.
Tesla Unionization
Do all IF Metall mechanics get paid the same rate and benefits no matter which shop they work for?
teslamotorsclub.com
I am a bit tired of these figures being thrown around. 50% of workers. What workers? Tesla globally? Tesla Sweden? Tesla Sweden Malmö? Tesla Sweden Malmö service center. Sweden Malmö service center mechanics? Mechanics in Sweden? They need to learn to use more precise language or discussion will be impossible. Which probably what they want as they care more about the image of doing good than doing good.
Imo unions assume that companies are gated, one group does one thing. Tesla has more open borders so the discussion becomes a lot more complex. Sometimes an entire process will be deleted, the union would not be happy about those workers losing their "security". Also unions support that people have some form of work life balance, Tesla is more about the mission. People sacrifice a lot to be a part of something good for a few years of their life, to grow rather than have stability. The unions don't understand this mindset, for them work is work.
Imo unions assume that companies are gated, one group does one thing. Tesla has more open borders so the discussion becomes a lot more complex. Sometimes an entire process will be deleted, the union would not be happy about those workers losing their "security". Also unions support that people have some form of work life balance, Tesla is more about the mission. People sacrifice a lot to be a part of something good for a few years of their life, to grow rather than have stability. The unions don't understand this mindset, for them work is work.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Tesla Sweden technician shares opinion on IF Metall strike
A Tesla technician working in Sweden shared his two cents about the ongoing IF Metall strike. "They didn't ask us how we are," he said.
www.teslarati.com
First-hand evidence that what IF Metall is doing has absolutely nothing to do with Tesla, its employees, or any actual issue at the workplace.
This strike is only about IF Metall trying to remain relevant in an environment where their union-members are quitting the union because it no longer aligns with their needs and seems to be completely disinterested about whether the actual employees feel that the pay and working conditions which the union keeps going on about are even a problem.
The continued avoidance of hard numbers and lack of any evidence of wrong-doing being provided by IF Metall, and their blatant attempt to use vague generalities instead to bolster their so-called argument is exposing just how flimsy their cause really is.
These are acts of desperation and have more to do with attempting a show of strength. Only, their strength is a ruse and has little in the way of a foundation to support it.
This is becoming embarrassing to watch as IF Metall tilts at windmills and other imaginary foes.
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Given Musk's right wing views it's no surprise that he gets along nicely with authoritarian regimes like China's, where workers have no say. It's notable that this self-declared white knight of free speech keeps his mouth firmly shut when it comes to China and rather writes pieces for the publications of China's Internet censor.
Universal healthcare, old age and disability pensions, regulated working hours, sick leave and minimum annual time off didn't come about because company owners provided them from the goodness of their hearts, but because workers organised politically and in unions and were thus able to stand up for their interests.
Companies that don't want to play by those rules in Europe are welcome to leave, including Tesla.
People don't go bankrupt in Europe over medical bills, nor do they die because they can't afford their insulin injections. People here seem to be ignorant about how deeply unattractive, even repellent the US is to many Europeans in that regard.
Universal healthcare, old age and disability pensions, regulated working hours, sick leave and minimum annual time off didn't come about because company owners provided them from the goodness of their hearts, but because workers organised politically and in unions and were thus able to stand up for their interests.
Companies that don't want to play by those rules in Europe are welcome to leave, including Tesla.
People don't go bankrupt in Europe over medical bills, nor do they die because they can't afford their insulin injections. People here seem to be ignorant about how deeply unattractive, even repellent the US is to many Europeans in that regard.
As a Finn, I find the Swedish system very confusing. Why is it legal to not have an union contract, if in principle it's assumed every company has it anyway? And why are unions allowed to do this kind of harm to companies, if contract is not a legal requirement?
In Finland union contracts are mandatory (by law). So here Tesla does have a contract. There is no issue, everyone is happy.
Tesla is allowed to pay more than the contract, and to my understanding that is what they are doing. But the union contract sets the minimum wage and other minimum conditions for holidays etc.
Employees are not required to be part of the union, and very often they aren't.
In Finland union contracts are mandatory (by law). So here Tesla does have a contract. There is no issue, everyone is happy.
Tesla is allowed to pay more than the contract, and to my understanding that is what they are doing. But the union contract sets the minimum wage and other minimum conditions for holidays etc.Employees are not required to be part of the union, and very often they aren't.
What makes it a *rule*? Does it take a law? If so, then make the law and Tesla would comply. (As noted in the post above mine about Finland.)
SalisburySam
Active Member
As does every other non-Chinese company doing business in China. Nothing at all to do with the topic.
Perhaps early on, but for decades now quality companies offer employee benefits to attract and retain them as compared to other companies. Instead, I wish unions would go after telemarketing companies where the union requirements would quickly bankrupt these societal leeches.
Wow, that took a turn on this thread. But sure, let’s go with that.
Again, not exactly on topic, but whatever. You’re from Germany…if I had to guess, there are many Germans who find the US far less repellant that you do. They likely work for companies like Miele, Gaggenau, BMW, Audi, Aldi, Daimler AG, Robert Bosch, Siemens, Bauer, Merck, ThyssenKrupp, and Adidas among many dozens of others, all with a significant percentage of sales to the US bought by individuals and companies that, oh gee, are not necessarily in or have a union. Horrors, certainly. Golly.
SalisburySam
Active Member
Disagree a bit here but only a little…based on their demands, a union is not about “work is work,” but more about “work is time spent.” This pervades the union demands in which merit is anathema.
YYymh yes, not often, just don't compare it to others......
In Finland union contracts are mandatory (by law). So here Tesla does have a contract. There is no issue, everyone is happy.
Employees are not required to be part of the union, and very often they aren't.
johnnycnote
Member
Why single out Tesla? Everyone does business with China. Take VW (please), they gave up and are looking to partner with Xpend Motors for EVs. Plus, China, unlike Sweden, is a market that you can't ignore
Collective agreements are not in law in sweden, like they often are in Finland. There is no yleissitovuus in sweden.As a Finn, I find the Swedish system very confusing. Why is it legal to not have an union contract, if in principle it's assumed every company has it anyway? And why are unions allowed to do this kind of harm to companies, if contract is not a legal requirement?
In Finland union contracts are mandatory (by law). So here Tesla does have a contract. There is no issue, everyone is happy.
Employees are not required to be part of the union, and very often they aren't.
Also union membership is really not mandatory in Finland either, and I'm quite sure Tesla has not joined any employers organisation.
But those collective agreements that have been written into binding law, bind Tesla as well.
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