Tesla Unionization

[jeewee3000]

Yes it actually came by surprise to me that they actually were shipping cars from Zeebrugge to Sweden in the first place. Apparently it must be cheaper to ship than driving them in a car transport truck.

It is about 1000km to Malmö, though. But then again transport inside Sweden can be almost same amount anyway, even if you do the first part with a ship.

And when starting from Zeebrugge, you can use some Belgian transport company which has no affiliation with Swedish mafia unions. Another "victory" for IF Metall..

Let's hope that the Belgian unions don't get any ideas. (ACV, ABVV and ACLVB are the three main ones, they are quite powerful as well) Strikes aren't uncommon here, especially regarding public transport. Hopefully the private logistics sector's unions are wise enough to not bite the hand that feeds them.

 

[bkp_duke]

This is a game of chicken, how does it end? I would not be surprised at all if Elon has given orders of "no unions, ever". Would Telsa pull out of Sweden to keep from setting a precedent? I could see that happening. It's a lose lose scenario, but possible.

 

[2daMoon]

I don't think that Elon/Tesla would make "no unions, ever" a stated policy.

Instead, they'll make the workplace so favorable that employees would never see the need to join one. This is the bee in IF Metall's bonnet.

That Tesla is demonstrating how they (IF Metall) are not needed in the case of Tesla Sweden is infuriating to an organization that is dependent upon employers leaving some reason for them to exist. Tesla has taken away that reason, and, can provide examples for other businesses on how to use First Principles to streamline their processes and achieve similar results.

This is rightly being heard by unions as a death knell to their plague upon production and innovation which has been held back for decades across multiple disciplines. Removing this sort of influence from unions is paramount to accelerating the transition.

There is a way for those unions to survive, but they must change their ways and direct their focus toward improving the working relationship between employer and employee. This would require basing their strategic efforts only on netting results that are mutually beneficial for all parties. First Principles.

Power-hungry administration for union management would have to be replaced with science-based (engineering) guidance at the administrative levels. Unfortunately, most systems that use voting to determine leadership will be dominated by those driven by ego, rather than those driven by purpose.

First Principles are hard to pitch to voters as there is seldom any way for instant gratification to be promised, only a steady march toward making things better. This won't win votes from people who have been trained to live paycheck to paycheck.

 

[Krugerrand]

Tesla does business like everyone else does in China?

Technically, they don’t.

 

[Krugerrand]

Finally, to my knowledge German companies that are doing business in the US are doing business as it is done in the US, something Tesla refuses to do in Sweden by refusing to conform to Swedish standards..

Technically, they are. When Sweden makes it a law to have a collective agreement then that is the day Tesla will sign one or won’t and will pack up their toys.

 

[RSpanner]

Just dropped in here, maybe this was posted, I didn't see it, at least this comment>“Even if you are one of the richest in the world, you can’t just make your own rules,”
United Federation of Trade Unions head John Trygve Tollefsen said in a statement (translated from Danish). “We have some labor market agreements in the Nordic region, and you have to comply with them if you want to run a business here. Solidarity is the cornerstone of the trade union movement and extends across national borders. Therefore, we are now taking the tools we have and using them to ensure collective agreements and fair working conditions.”

Trade unions joining in sympathy action is part of the Scandinavian labor market, and it’s not without precedent that these actions will cross borders. In 2015, pilots in Sweden joined a solidarity strike with pilots in Norway at Norwegian Air Shuttle ASA.

Last month, about 130 mechanics in Sweden who belong to the IF Metall union and service Tesla cars went on strike after the company refused their request for collective bargaining. Since, thousands of workers in Sweden have joined, from dockworkers to car dealers to even the post office workers refusing to touch anything Tesla-related until Tesla signs the collective bargaining agreement with IF Metall. Tesla’s CEO Elon Musk is notoriously anti-union and has described the actions in the country as “insane.”

Last week, Tesla filed twin lawsuits against the Swedish Transport Agency and the country’s postal service after workers refused to deliver license plates for its cars, with a court in Sweden swiftly backing Tesla. Hours after filing the court offered a temporary injunction to get the plates to the company within a week. The second lawsuit against PostNord, which is also blocking other deliveries and mail for Tesla, is still awaiting a court ruling this week.

While Tesla doesn’t like it, unions are an essential part of the Swedish labor model, with about 90% of the workforce belonging to trade unions and protected by employee contracts that work to standardize pay, insurance, and pensions, as well as protect worker conditions.

The transport workers in Denmark say they will start their action against Tesla in two weeks after a mandatory two-week notice period.

 

[Krugerrand]

I wonder if the "shame" they are quoted as seeing in the customers they accost attempt to educate is maybe somewhat projected from their point of view.

All the behaviors of the customers they described sound more like various methods of trying to avoid conflict and/or unwanted conversations with random strangers to me, if they were feeling shameful I'd expect angry denials to be mentioned.

I want to go to Sweden now to buy a Tesla in their face. We’ve all dealt with strikers before on this side of the ocean. Some we’ve supported, some we haven’t.

 

[Krugerrand]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1731981231938560476

Priceless.

 

[2daMoon]

Last month, about 130 mechanics in Sweden who belong to the IF Metall union and service Tesla cars went on strike after the company refused their request for collective bargaining. Since, thousands of workers in Sweden have joined, from dockworkers to car dealers to even the post office workers refusing to touch anything Tesla-related until Tesla signs the collective bargaining agreement with IF Metall. Tesla’s CEO Elon Musk is notoriously anti-union and has described the actions in the country as “insane.”

FWIW, this 130 number represents mostly third-party mechanics who are not crucial to Tesla's business and who remain fully employed, working on other brands.

As far as has been substantiated, the number of Tesla-employed mechanics who joined the strike is very small. Of the few union members at Tesla, it seems that no more than half of them have chosen to continue working rather than support their fellow union members in this farce action.

 

[Just a Reader]

I just read an interesting piece in the NY Times that doctors and pharmacists in the US are increasingly joining unions, as they consider them to be necessary to survive in a health sector that is dominated by large companies now. So much for unions being a thing of the past.
I also recall the Silicon Valley scandal when tech companies were found out to have entered into an illegal agreement not to poach each other's employees. Apparently tech companies aren't above some good old racketeering to keep the employees down. Obviously they got away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
Somehow people in the US seem to believe that unions are the problem. The fall of Boeing's commercial jet business from global leader to the shame of the 737 Max most certainly wasn't caused by the unions.

 

[Krugerrand]

Just dropped in here, maybe this was posted, I didn't see it, at least this comment>“Even if you are one of the richest in the world, you can’t just make your own rules,”

Yes, actually you can. Indeed, ANYBODY can just make up their own rules. In fact, most of us DO make up our own rules that we live by.

I get what the point here is supposed to be. Factually, Tesla/Elon haven’t broken a single Swedish law WHILE making up their own rules.

So, that’s a really stupid comment and I’m not fooled by it and I dare say a lot of people aren’t fooled by it. Some will be fooled because not everyone is particularly bright or cognizant of when they’re being duped.

 

[Krugerrand]

I just read an interesting piece in the NY Times that doctors and pharmacists in the US are increasingly joining unions, as they consider them to be necessary to survive in a health sector that is dominated by large companies now. So much for unions being a thing of the past.
I also recall the Silicon Valley scandal when tech companies were found out to have entered into an illegal agreement not to poach each other's employees. Apparently tech companies aren't above some good old racketeering to keep the employees down. Obviously they got away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
Somehow people in the US seem to believe that unions are the problem. The fall of Boeing's commercial jet business from global leader to the shame of the 737 Max most certainly wasn't caused by the unions.

Yes, I believe the NY Times because they’ve always told the unadulterated truth.

 

[2daMoon]

I just read an interesting piece in the NY Times that doctors and pharmacists in the US are increasingly joining unions, as they consider them to be necessary to survive in a health sector that is dominated by large companies now. So much for unions being a thing of the past.
I also recall the Silicon Valley scandal when tech companies were found out to have entered into an illegal agreement not to poach each other's employees. Apparently tech companies aren't above some good old racketeering to keep the employees down. Obviously they got away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
Somehow people in the US seem to believe that unions are the problem. The fall of Boeing's commercial jet business from global leader to the shame of the 737 Max most certainly wasn't caused by the unions.

Um, you didn't actually read THIS POST, did you?

Please, get off your high horse and consider what you can do to improve your union's ability to work toward Win/Win outcomes. When a union's actions prevent growth and innovation everyone suffers. If the relationship between employee and employer reach a point where the union is no longer needed, that might be the moment to stop protesting.

This is what appears to be the case in Sweden. Tesla exceeded the union's recommendations for their employees. There was no need for a collective agreement and no law that requires one, yet the union pitched a fit.

Instead of being reactive, choose to be responsive (or maybe even, responsible).

 

[Krugerrand]

It occurred to me that another reason for Tesla not to sign a collective agreement, in addition to the reasons we all already know, is for just what is happening now.

Would Tesla want to be forced to sympathy strike against a company they are doing business with? Maybe, maybe not. I think that would depend on the morals and ethics of the company.

Ultimately, the choice to use another company’s products and services should be up to individual companies not a union. This would be a belief of Tesla/Elon.

 

[johnnycnote]

Yes, I believe the NY Times because they’ve always told the unadulterated truth.

Dude, you're on a roll! Krugerrand

 

[growler23]

I expect that this conflict will eventually be resolved over the negotiating table.
Right now both sides are trying to win "on the battlefield" to avoid this negotiation, or to strengthen their position when the negotiation finally occurs.
It has been interesting to watch each side move and counter-move, and call up their allies (mostly IF Metall on this one).
Tesla does not need Sweden, but would like to sell there.
Sweden does not need Tesla, but would like to have them.
It does seem to this caveman brain that a solution space must exist for this particular differential equation.

Still eating the popcorn and watching with interest.

 

[Just a Reader]

Yes, I believe the NY Times because they’ve always told the unadulterated truth.

That isn't an argument. You are like a pre-schooler who holds his ears shut whenever he hears something that doesn't fit into his perception of reality. Nowadays that seems to be good enough to be elected President in the US, though. Apparently some random dude on X is supposed to be more trustworthy than the NY Times.

 

[Just a Reader]

Um, you didn't actually read THIS POST, did you?

Please, get off your high horse and consider what you can do to improve your union's ability to work toward Win/Win outcomes. When a union's actions prevent growth and innovation everyone suffers. If the relationship between employee and employer reach a point where the union is no longer needed, that might be the moment to stop protesting.

This is what appears to be the case in Sweden. Tesla exceeded the union's recommendations for their employees. There was no need for a collective agreement and no law that requires one, yet the union pitched a fit.

Instead of being reactive, choose to be responsive (or maybe even, responsible).

Do you seriously consider your posts to be so profound, that you have to recommend them again?
Your opinion on what Tesla has offered in Sweden doesn't really go beyond an "I suppose". Tesla may offer better conditions than what a deal with the union may have to offer as an alternative, or it may just to good old bullying tactics to keep the union outside. In Germany Tesla certainly didn't offer anything better than what the union deals at other manufacturers have to offer.

 

[2daMoon]

There doesn't seem to be any point being made to negotiate over.

Don't equate Sweden with IF Metall. I'm sure Tesla has a long, profitable future in Sweden.

The equation is:

• There is no complaint about Tesla's working conditions nor employee treatment. In fact the union has indicated Tesla exceeds expectations.
• There is no law compelling a business to enter into a collective agreement.
• IF Metall wants to force Tesla Sweden to sign a collective agreement, based entirely upon the premise that "everybody else does" while failing to share how doing so would benefit Tesla or Tesla's employees.

The union, IF Metall, is then, in retaliation, employing tactics which are negatively affecting the working conditions of the Tesla employees, and costing Tesla profits (which could otherwise be used to further improve employee benefits).

This includes uses of force which are considered unethical and unlawful (racketeering) in many developed nations (except for maybe Sicily, wink wink, nudge nudge).

All in order to lever Tesla to sign a contract which in no way serves Tesla, and would only legitimize IF Metall. Sort of like how the Mafia gets their "protection" money for promising not to burn down your business.

Where, exactly, would a negotiation over this expect to begin?

 

[navguy12]

@2daMoon, as someone who’s family comes from that area, I do appreciate your humor here:

This includes uses of force which are considered unethical and unlawful (racketeering) in many developed nations (except for maybe Sicily, wink wink, nudge nudge).

But these things can and do happen in all sorts of places.

Ford controlled the city government of Dearborn, and used its police department alongside the company's Service Department to violently intimidate Ford workers and union organizers.

Battle of the Overpass - Wikipedia

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