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Tesla VS Taycan

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So while many things in the Model S have certainly improved since 2012 (which actually means it was most likely engineered in 2010 or earlier, making it closer to a 10 year old design),

Ok, so your argument here is that 2020 P100D was designed in 2010, but 2020 Taycan was designed in 2019?:confused:

Can you answer my original question - what parts of 2020 P100D, you truly believe were designed in 2010? 100KHw battery? Dual motor drive train? Adaptive Raven suspension? MCU+instrument cluster? AutoPilot3? Parking brakes? Seats? All those things haven't made it to production till 2018 or later, are you saying Tesla had them since 2010 but couldn't put it into production for 8+ years, but Porsche designed the Taycan in 2019 and produced it the following year? :confused:
 
No, Range Mode turns off the rear engine at cruising speeds, so you get about 300 Wh/Mi. I can actually go up to 90 miles per hour with no effect on range. My old 85 had difficulties going 90 miles per hour as it only had the rear engine. Please check documentation and try it out - I have on many road trips. Range Mode rocks.

Brent
Few years ago I tried on my P85D, it made the car accelerate slower, turned off running lights, but didn't do noticeably better when cruising at 65-70mph. I think the rear motor went to sleep even without range mode, but I am not certain (had no way to verify, no CAN bus snooper). Coincidetally, i drove one trip (almost all highway 60-75mph) with P85D traveling together with S60D (locked 75D) and both S averaged almost identical Wh/mile (P85D in Ludicrous).
 
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A few months ago, I was walking toward a parked Tesla sedan from the side. It looked kind of different so I thought it was a prototype (I'm a few miles from Tesla HQ). I saw the front and it had a black nose cone. The old S design still looked new to me, and I own a refresh S!

This weekend, I walked past a great looking parked Porsche from the front and side and talked to my spouse about how it was too bad such a nice looking car could be a foul one when it was driven (due to emissions and noise). In retrospect, I wondered if it was a Taycan that I saw. From the side, it looked like a curvier and flashier Model S. Is there another Porsche that could look like that? Is the Taycan available for purchase in California already?
 
I'll bite - the battery and motor cooling system was designed in 2010. Heck - the Model 3 is well known to be better - because it is more recent. And since that is the big issue with repeated acceleration runs - it is pretty darn relevant here.
So yes a 2020 is better than a 2012 for a lot of reasons. But battery cooling I don't believe has changed.
And yes the Raven suspension, MCU etc have nothing to do with back to back acceleration runs.

Battery cooling has been a complaint from racers for a long time - since 2013 I suspect. It has always been Tesla's weakness. Plenty of time for Porsche to say - "well we aren't going to make that mistake" and then the marketing folks to capitalize on that. Now the said marketing folks also probably suggested the test to C&D. They also suggested the 75 mph test because that is the sweet spot for the Porsche. Honestly - a very smart sweet spot. Worth a tranny? - probably not.
 
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I'll bite - the battery and motor cooling system was designed in 2010. Heck - the Model 3 is well known to be better - because it is more recent. And since that is the big issue with repeated acceleration runs - it is pretty darn relevant here.
So yes a 2020 is better than a 2012 for a lot of reasons. But battery cooling I don't believe has changed.
And yes the Raven suspension, MCU etc have nothing to do with back to back acceleration runs.

Battery cooling has been a complaint from racers for a long time - since 2013 I suspect. It has always been Tesla's weakness. Plenty of time for Porsche to say - "well we aren't going to make that mistake" and then the marketing folks to capitalize on that. Now the said marketing folks also probably suggested the test to C&D. They also suggested the 75 mph test because that is the sweet spot for the Porsche. Honestly - a very smart sweet spot. Worth a tranny? - probably not.


Precisely. All the above. As well as overall chassis and suspension design, both which are critical to weight and handling/braking/steering.

And for some to think that that upcoming Roadster (with the majority of it's engineering having occurred in 2018/2019), for example, wont benefit significantly by various engineering/tech improvements since 2012, is absurd.

The real comparison will be Roadster (designed as a sport/race car) vs Taycan. Two cars that appear to be designed for the track/extreme high performance driving and most likely will be much closer in price range than Taycan vs Model S and thus, will be targeting same demographics.

Does anyone truly think the 2021 Taycan will outperform the Tesla Roadster?
 
Ok, so your argument here is that 2020 P100D was designed in 2010, but 2020 Taycan was designed in 2019?:confused:

Can you answer my original question - what parts of 2020 P100D, you truly believe were designed in 2010?

I already answered...frame, suspension, chassis, brake system, steering system, miles of wiring...all things that matter in handling, steering, braking...you know..those little things that tend to be critical in lap times, handling, braking distance, driving feel, steering turn radius..

and despite that...look again at the C&D chart of categories where the Model S came in ahead of the Taycan. With the Taycan having an 85k price difference.

Taycan is a great car..Im sure. But one would have thought that a car costing that much, from arguably one of the greatest sports car makers in the WORLD..would have EASILY and soundly trounced a family sedan created by a tech company that made it's first car delivery as recent as 2008.

But it didnt.
 
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I already answered...frame, suspension, chassis, brake system, steering system, miles of wiring...all things that matter in handling, steering, braking...you know..those little things that tend to be critical in lap times, handling, braking distance, driving feel, steering turn radius..

and despite that...look again at the C&D chart of categories where the Model S came in ahead of the Taycan. With the Taycan having an 85k price difference.

Taycan is a great car..Im sure. But one would have thought that a car costing that much, from arguably one of the greatest sports car makers in the WORLD..would have EASILY and soundly trounced a family sedan created by a tech company that made it's first car delivery as recent as 2008.

But it didnt.
Well, if Tesla had the P100D engineered in 2010, they wouldn't have engineered and sold the P85D which needs a 50% power boost to hit the specs. Same goes for the other components like battery (P100D is many generations later than 85 battery, there were 3 generations of just the 90 battery, which according to you was just to screw with customer I guess because you say they had the 100 battery already engineered in 2010, right?). Raven adaptive suspension, it just took over I years to figure out how to manufacture, right?

I'm sorry, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Tesla has done a number of things that screwed the customers on specs with P85D and P90D, heck even the fact that it battery is only an 82, but you won't convince me they already had the 100 battery since 2010 and were designing all those generations of batteries just to screw the customers on purpose. Tesla is actually the opposite, they tend to put things into productions before the engineering is done, hence all those things they thought they could deliver and couldn't.
 
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Precisely. All the above. As well as overall chassis and suspension design, both which are critical to weight and handling/braking/steering.

And for some to think that that upcoming Roadster (with the majority of it's engineering having occurred in 2018/2019), for example, wont benefit significantly by various engineering/tech improvements since 2012, is absurd.

The real comparison will be Roadster (designed as a sport/race car) vs Taycan. Two cars that appear to be designed for the track/extreme high performance driving and most likely will be much closer in price range than Taycan vs Model S and thus, will be targeting same demographics.

Does anyone truly think the 2021 Taycan will outperform the Tesla Roadster?

No, the Tesla S is in the Taycan market, the hoops some of you fans go through to explain an eight year old platform winning against a newer one is funny. And yes, it won on price.

The Roadster will be going up the Ferrari EV hypercar expected in three years and the Rimac/Porsche sportscar due in a couple of years also to name a few. The four door Taycan is not a competitor to the Roadster 2.0
Home | Rimac Automobili

After a while its all academic, once we have crossed the 0-60, 2 second threshold and 7 or 8 second 1/4 miles, who cares if you get there .001 second earlier, you will have a headache after three tries.
 
No, the Tesla S is in the Taycan market, the hoops some of you fans go through to explain an eight year old platform winning against a newer one is funny. And yes, it won on price..

You are essentially making my point for me. :)

Agreed, that the Model S won on price, as well as the numerous other categories where it was listed as coming in first place/ahead of the Taycan. Its clearly listed on the scorecard in the article.

And yes, the Model S is in the market of the Taycan 4S, which is squarely in the same price category as the Model S. (When people shop for cars, statistics show that they cross shop within the same price range. A person able to afford a max of $115k isnt even considering a $200k car. At all).

And do we really want to compare the Model S against the specs of the 3.8 second 0-60 and lil 190 miles of range, Taycan 4S? The results would be even worse for Porsche than using the Taycan Turbo S. The 4S already loses to the Model S on 0-30, 0-60, 1/4 mile, top speed, AND range categories.

Again..facts remain: a car costing $85k more, built by a legendary German racing heritage car company, lost..to a new tech company from Silicon Valley, USA.
 
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Well i live in LA.
My P100D has a price tag similar to the Tycan,. and i did not buy it on discount, i bought it fully customized exactly down to how i wanted it, so i would say i am considered one of its potential buyers.

0-60 is somewhat important, because no one lets u merge in LA, so you either need to force your way though, or just smoke the car ahead and slide in.

1/4 mile is also important for said reason. You need to smoke the car next to you, to squeeze in, or again, your at the mercy of #@$#@ not letting you in.

Top speed - im sorry i have not gone past 95 even in my Tesla... for more reasons then one.

First, Traffic... you'll be lucky to be able to coast at even 70+ for longer then 30 min.
Second, Potholes... UGH... this is a Tesla 21 inch rim owners heart attack causing nightmare.
Third, Did i mention LA has the worst traffic in the world
L.A.'s traffic congestion is world's worst for sixth straight year, study says

Honestly i think i have sat in my car in traffic more then on a open road where i can really let her fly.

So the "Performance" on the Model S is more then enough for LA.
Infact, i even think the P is overkill in most cases, as i can not really let her rip across like a Arabian Horse.

So it mostly comes down to what can help me mitigate though traffic.
Enhanced Autopilot has been somewhat of a god send in Traffic, especially when i prop my knees on the wheel (yes i know im not supposed to do that, but its traffic moving at 10-15mph, hence my car will not go torpedoing into a fire truck or a divider), and i can sort of zone out until it picks up again.
 
A fully speced 2020 Model S Performance (with all options) brand spanking new is $116k.
I assume you mean the Taycan 4S price...

No a 2018 P100D fully optioned, customized order had a sticker of 151k

tesla-sticker.jpg
 
Few years ago I tried on my P85D, it made the car accelerate slower, turned off running lights, but didn't do noticeably better when cruising at 65-70mph. I think the rear motor went to sleep even without range mode, but I am not certain (had no way to verify, no CAN bus snooper). Coincidetally, i drove one trip (almost all highway 60-75mph) with P85D traveling together with S60D (locked 75D) and both S averaged almost identical Wh/mile (P85D in Ludicrous).

I just did two trips to San Diego from Maricopa, Arizona. Once in my 2016 Model S P100DL and once in a 2019 Model 3 AWD LR. I was easily able to make it to El Centro (218 miles) with 90% charge in the Model S. I did the same type of driving in the Model 3 with 90% charge and I was only able to make it to Yuma. If you click the information circle next to Range Mode, it states that it shuts down the rear motor at cruising speeds. Perhaps it was different in previous years, but this is the mode you need to turn on if you want the rear engine to shut off. It really works great for me.

Brent
 
No, the Tesla S is in the Taycan market, the hoops some of you fans go through to explain an eight year old platform winning against a newer one is funny. And yes, it won on price.

The Roadster will be going up the Ferrari EV hypercar expected in three years and the Rimac/Porsche sportscar due in a couple of years also to name a few. The four door Taycan is not a competitor to the Roadster 2.0
Home | Rimac Automobili

After a while its all academic, once we have crossed the 0-60, 2 second threshold and 7 or 8 second 1/4 miles, who cares if you get there .001 second earlier, you will have a headache after three tries.
Forget the headache, one might stroke out at those acceleration times with any EV. With an ice, even with the fastest speed, the audible cues would pre load the heart and ensure a proper cardiac output in setting of breath taking (literally) acceleration.
 
I just did two trips to San Diego from Maricopa, Arizona. Once in my 2016 Model S P100DL and once in a 2019 Model 3 AWD LR. I was easily able to make it to El Centro (218 miles) with 90% charge in the Model S. I did the same type of driving in the Model 3 with 90% charge and I was only able to make it to Yuma. If you click the information circle next to Range Mode, it states that it shuts down the rear motor at cruising speeds. Perhaps it was different in previous years, but this is the mode you need to turn on if you want the rear engine to shut off. It really works great for me.

Brent

Interesting. My Owner's Manual as of November 2019 says only that "When turned on in an All-Wheel Drive vehicle, torque
distribution between the motors is optimized to maximize range." So that might or might not suggest that the rear motor is entirely disabled. Sounds like you know for sure, but I did not understand it that way. My car is a 70D, in which the motors are the same size (as I recall), so maybe that makes a difference. But I am not sure my Owner's Manual is specific to my car -- the title does not indicate so....

I have never tried Range mode. Sounds like I should try it!
 
A very good review I thought, fair, highlighted the strengths and weaknesses of each well. A great first effort for Porsche, and Tesla only has a few tweaks and refinements to do for the upcoming Plaid to address the performance drop-off and road feel.

Glad Porsche has joined the game; competition helps focus the mind. Can't wait for the Plaid and the new Roadster. Game on!
 
Audi e-tron electric SUVs tell owners they need an oil change - Electrek

I wonder if the Taycan uses the same maintenance software as the e-Tron? :cool:

Beyond the humor of the stupidity of this mistake, it does highlight how the traditional car companies still don’t really get BEVs. Why does it need a 10k maintenance check-up at all? That’s an old requirement from gas cars that they carried over to the EV by default so their dealers can keep making money on service, even if no service is needed. I pulled out the owner’s manual and read what Audi says is required for a 10k service, and it amounts to a whole lot of absolutely nothing (and BTW the manual doesn’t mention anything about changing oil…). But I’m sure they’ll charge me at least $500 just to get the stupid message to stop popping up every time I get in the car…

 
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