Tesla VS Taycan

[Uncle Paul]

Testing makes sense. Tesla makes a really quick street car. Porsche has a racing history, so probably put additonal cooling in their very expensive cars to handle track conditions. No owners will ever be making back to back full throttle runs, except to

Comparing the two is a fools errand. Model seats 5 comfortably (and often 2 additional kid seats in the back). The Porsche is a 2 adults plus 2 kids seating arrangement (even with the "foot garages".

Porsche adds a very expensive and vulnerable 2 speed transmission. Tesla does without in the interest in lower weight and additional range.

Germany has some of the few remaining very high speed (sometimes unlimited) highways. The produce cars that will excel there. Tesla is kind of made for the rest of the world.

Imagine that Porsche will struggle to develop some tests that will show their arrogant superiority, while Tesla will simply move forward with their announced 3 motor Plaid version which should move them into an even higher level of performance, range and handling.

 

[ICUDoc]

arrogant superiority

Don't forget, the Porsche CEO was the only leader of a legacy carmaker who said, back in 2012, that Musk was doing a great thing. And that's where the Taycan idea was born.
I don't think Porsche has that attitude.
Lots of Porsche owners do. Maybe not most, but many.
I liked bhzmark's comments above- the response to the CaD article should be a balanced one.
Personally, I agree with the outcome- each car is better in its own way, but the Porsche (especially in Australia) is punitively expensive..

 

[shellderp]

They got some strange results for sure. I don't get advertised range on my p100d but 222 miles is worse than I get even in Canadian winters (usually get like 250). Never had a 6 second launch even at 10% battery, the hell did they do?

 

[12Pack]

Not sure why anyone can be disappointed with those results. No surprise, the Model S was never meant to really be a performance car.

I track myMcLaren regularly, and I once took my daily driver AP2 P100D instead - for a very disappointing experience. Nice to see Porsche has finally managed to make a German copy with gearing and thermal management for performance.

But the S/X remain by far the best daily / family cars - smooth, effortlessly powerful and efficient on the road. And great for occasionally embarrassing a noisy boy racer around town.

 

[timvracer]

Lots of Porsche owners do. Maybe not most, but many.

Actually, most... very much most.

 

[dethman]

Actually, most... very much most.

Being a member of both Porsche clubs and and owning 2 Teslas, knowing many people that do, I would have to say that Tesla owners have much more of a superiority complex than any other owner.

Just look at this forum.

 

[2101Guy]

I mean, what other car company ever made Consumer Reports have to revamp their rating scale

 

[Yuri_G]

The numbers for the S are 20% less efficient than what Bjorn achieved in a 2018 P100D. With all the Raven efficiencies this test reeks of BS.

Here's Bjorn getting 250 miles at 75mph in a Raven Model X

And here's his Raven Performance test with 21s. He doesn't do the 75mph test, but estimates it would come in around 272 miles of range after his 55mph test.

Car and Driver Brodered the test.

 

[David29]

The Taycan has a two-speed gearbox...so these specific test favor that set up.

For the range test they should have driven them to 0%...extrapolating after 100 miles isn't an ideal method.

I am curious -- how are they determining remaining range? if it is from the battery SOC indicator, that is notoriously inaccurate (on the Tesla anyway). Unless they were driving it at conditions close to the EPA test, the stated range is simply not meaningful. And it is very difficult, expect on a closed course with steady speed, to drive in a way that matches the EPA test so that the range comparison is meaningful. If they were using the Tesla energy app, well, that is a different story. But even so, how do they know that the Tesla and Porsche range indicators or energy apps (if the Taycan has something like it) are anywhere near equivalent? If one is more optimistic than the other, the comparison is meaningless.
I have been convinced by reading zillions of posts on this and watching many videos that the better way to determine what you can get from the car is to do a test where you measure the energy you can extract in driving down form 100% to near zero, which is the method that Bjorn Nyland uses. Then the range is a function of your speed etc. You can use the EPA value to estimate the range, but first you have to know what energy you can actually obtain and use from the battery.

 

[2101Guy]

Comes down to your individual needs. I will go out on a limb and guess:
- by far, most drivers do not take their cars to the track
- by far, most drivers do not perform repeated back to back full speed runs
- by far, most drivers’ majority mileage isn’t routine extended (hour or longer) 75mph+ drives

Therefore, one of these two cars has tremendous value over the other for the majority of drivers

 

[David29]

Here’s a guy driving his Taycan 10,000 miles across the country. Pretty interesting. Taking One Lap of the Country in my Taycan Turbo - 10k miles in 6 weeks Cross-Country Journal

Wow, an excellent thread! That fellow is a true adventurer! I would never have set off to drive a brand new car across Canada in the winter! His posts are nicely done. He seems incredibly positive and patient, despite some setbacks. His experience with Porsche support is certainly interesting, especially given that the dealers where he stopped in Canada had never seen the car before.

 

[TechOps]

It is not sad, we hope it is true. Porsche is a great company and I want them to do well. Supporters of American car companies should be proud that Tesla has started a revolution. Porsche costs twice as much, had had years to develop, copy and surpass. They should have an AMAZING car that crushes, not debatable in any category.

Agreed. While it's satisfying to see Tesla win, it's even better to see the industry slowly catch up. It's far better for the future of EVs to have other companies be able to make competitive models. Competition will spur further, fast innovation. And If Tesla were the only company that could figure this stuff out, it wouldn't bode well for the future of the industry.

Porsche is a niche player for the rich. Having them be successful is a good thing; give them 2020 to glow, until the Roadster is released.

 

[2101Guy]

Agreed. While it's satisfying to see Tesla win, it's even better to see the industry slowly catch up. It's far better for the future of EVs to have other companies be able to make competitive models. Competition will spur further, fast innovation. And If Tesla were the only company that could figure this stuff out, it wouldn't bode well for the future of the industry.

Porsche is a niche player for the rich. Having them be successful is a good thing; give them 2020 to glow, until the Roadster is released.

speaks volumes when a company has to gloat by being in second place....

 

[bhzmark]

The numbers for the S are 20% less efficient than what Bjorn achieved in a 2018 P100D. With all the Raven efficiencies this test reeks of BS.

Here's Bjorn getting 250 miles at 75mph in a Raven Model X

And here's his Raven Performance test with 21s. He doesn't do the 75mph test, but estimates it would come in around 272 miles of range after his 55mph test.

Car and Driver Brodered the test.

They extrapolated the mileage and almost certainly got the math or measurements wrong.

 

[PhilDavid]

This is just sad, for Tesla that is. Car and Drivers latest test.


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Okay so this is the BIG QUESTION I would like the answer for....

In a Model S Performance, after the initial 2.5/2.6s 0-60 run, how long do you have to wait before the car can do another run to get a 0-60 time around 2.x seconds?

 

[PhilDavid]

Being a member of both Porsche clubs and and owning 2 Teslas, knowing many people that do, I would have to say that Tesla owners have much more of a superiority complex than any other owner.

Just look at this forum.

If you think this is bad, try the Tesla Reddit.

If you dare say that you only "somewhat" like Tesla, they will kill you.

 

[bhzmark]

Never had a 6 second launch even at 10% battery, the hell did they do?

Likely they put the battery into power limited mode due to overheating. I've never done that in my car. Including at the drag strip in a 100 degree july day with multiple runs. It only takes a few minutes between runs to cool off sufficiently.

Porsche likely benchmarked a tesla and looked for a weak benchmark,no matter how impractical, used that as a marketing device. And then convinced their advertiser to use the same test .. a test which C&D had never used ever before.

Surprisingly C/D still gave the Tesla first place. For that alone,Tesla shld buy an ad.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Comparisons will become more clear when Tesla releases their sporty focused Plaid and New Roadster.

Right now Porsche is attempting to compare their expensive 2+2 sports car with more reasonabley priced family sedans from Tesla.

 

[ICUDoc]

when Tesla releases their sporty focused Plaid and New Roadster

Dear Uncle Paul,
Please let Uncle Elon know that we are all ready for Plaid. And Roadster.
Please tell him to Hurry Up.
Kind regards,
And thanks,
David

 

[Uncle Paul]

David.

Will speak to him when we get together for Valentines day.

Wants to know if you prefer steering wheel on Right or Left?