Tesla's liability for promising FSD later this year

[A321ELAC]

Perhaps this has been discussed but I didn't see anything. We are in middle of July and the website still says FSD by end of year (responding to traffic lights and driving in the city).

Assuming this doesn't happen which I believe to be the case what's Teslas liability on this? Would they be forced to refund FSD cost? Return the whole car? It's not unreasonable for the average Joe - who isn't aware of the Musk time line - to expect a multi billion dollar company to deliver on a spelled out promise while purchasing a 50k car.

Let me end by saying I'm a huge Tesla fan and hope FSD comes quickly. Just wondering how this could effect Tesla if we get to end of year without having the things they are promising in a product.

 

[TANGO SUKKA]

nothing. they are enjoying your 2k for fsd/empty promise.

 

[fr100]

Feature complete. Not "you will get it then."

 

[jebinc]

nothing. they are enjoying your 2k for fsd/empty promise.

Actually, the advertising/Tesla representations mentioned by the OP carries a $6000 price tag for that option. How do I know, well, I bought it before reading the details contained within this forum... I had thought, based on the statements on the Tesla site about FSD, that "the car will come to you in a parking lot - Really!" representation was factual, when in fact it is not (as of yet)…. Knowing what I know now (and what I already knew about Musk timelines), would I buy it today? ... yeah, probably.... as I always want the latest and to be future-proofed as much as possible, within reason. Look, there are many threads from AP1, AP2, and AP2.5 owners feeling boned that there is no ECD in sight for their free HW3 retrofit.... I suspect they will eventually get it, but right now Tesla is focused on profitability and the ol' mighty shareholder expected "MARGIN," so I don't see many "free" computers going out in the very near future for these reasons....

 

[YusufT]

I don’t get why people always look for handouts. You paid for something that doesn’t exist yet, and while the company is promising for a end of year delivery it doesn’t mean the owe you anything more than what was promised. Surely the fine print acknowledges that it’s just a timeframe.

 

[YusufT]

I don’t get why people always look for handouts. You paid for something that doesn’t exist yet, and while the company is promising for a end of year delivery it doesn’t mean the owe you anything more than what was promised. Surely the fine print acknowledges that it’s just a timeframe.

To add onto this, if they don’t deliver their promise of FSD regardless of timeframe they owe you a refund. That’s about it

 

[A321ELAC]

To add onto this, if they don’t deliver their promise of FSD regardless of timeframe they owe you a refund. That’s about it

Just the 6k refund? I'd wonder what the courts would say. It's not unreasonable that you purchased the entire car with the expectations it would drive itself. Perhaps somebody would want a different car without that feature. This could get ugly if they don't deliver.

 

[A321ELAC]

I don’t get why people always look for handouts. You paid for something that doesn’t exist yet, and while the company is promising for a end of year delivery it doesn’t mean the owe you anything more than what was promised. Surely the fine print acknowledges that it’s just a timeframe.

Who's looking for a handout? I must have missed something

 

[jebinc]

Just the 6k refund? I'd wonder what the courts would say. It's not unreasonable that you purchased the entire car with the expectations it would drive itself. Perhaps somebody would want a different car without that feature. This could get ugly if they don't deliver.

I think their wording will protect them, legally, but not from potential customer dissatisfaction. For example, they could deliver stop signs and traffic lights in one city/town/province/ham/etc. and claim success. Will we see global stop signs and traffic lights coverage by end of the year? Nah, only if aliens are helping Musk. But, that's okay with me as I like to see continual progress and incremental release.

 

[A321ELAC]

I think their wording will protect them, legally, but not from potential customer dissatisfaction. For example, they could deliver stop signs and traffic lights in one city/town/province/ham/etc. and claim success. Will we see global stop signs and traffic lights coverage by end of the year? Nah, only if aliens are helping Musk. But, that's okay with me as I like to see continual progress and incremental release.

I love the car FSD or not. But respectfully disagree that adding one town with stoplights will cover what they advertise on the website.

 

[jebinc]

I love the car FSD or not. But respectfully disagree that adding one town with stoplights will cover what they advertise on the website.

Understood. I was exaggerating a bit when I said "one city/town/province/ham/etc.," trying to make the point that it may be a "limited deployment" and many may not get it. That would create customer dissatisfaction, but likely won't result in court ordered settlements (due to working and fine print). Time will tell.... I'm also fairly certain Tesla lawyer's reviewed any and all language before it was published...

Edit: I'm not siding with Tesla here, either, just trying to state what I believe is likely. False advertising, as you may call it, is rampant globally. Look at all those infomercials and the outrageous claims they make. Same for "dietary supplements"... There aren't enough lawyers, judges and courts to even take all that on!

 

[C141medic]

The FSD issue has been discussed in many threads. I purchased mine last year with EAP and FSD. When I purchased it, part of my purchase decision was based on the FSD video that Tesla disseminated in 2016 similar to the video they had a few months ago regarding FSD. Realistically, I know that within the next few years my car won’t be driving me around with me sleeping in the driver’s seat or in the back seat like a robot chauffeur. I’d be happy at this point if they could just provide city driving with stop light/sign recognition and the upgrade to HW3.

 

[jebinc]

The FSD issue has been discussed in many threads. I purchased mine last year with EAP and FSD. When I purchased it, part of my purchase decision was based on the FSD video that Tesla disseminated in 2016 similar to the video they had a few months ago regarding FSD. Realistically, I know that within the next few years my car won’t be driving me around with me sleeping in the driver’s seat or in the back seat like a robot chauffeur. I’d be happy at this point if they could just provide city driving with stop light/sign recognition and the upgrade to HW3.

Have they told you yet when you're going to get your HW3 retrofit? They have been delivering new cars with it for few months now.

 

[C141medic]

Have they told you yet when you're going to get your HW3 retrofit? They have been delivering new cars with it for few months now.

Crickets

 

[jebinc]

Crickets

I was hoping to hear a report, otherwise (see post #4). I do hope they take care of prior loyal customers sooner, rather than later and get them the hardware they deserve. Having HW3 myself, rest assured you aren't missing anything at this point - in fact, it is reported that AP2.5 cars benefit more from recent software updates than those few of us that have HW3 cars. I have some possible HW3 bugs as well (e.g., dancing cars, etc.).

 

[C141medic]

I was hoping to hear a report, otherwise (see post #4). I do hope they take care of prior loyal customers sooner, rather than later and get them the hardware they deserve. Having HW3 myself, rest assured you aren't missing anything at this point - in fact, it is reported that AP2.5 cars benefit more from recent software updates than those few of us that have HW3 cars. I have some possible HW3 bugs as well (e.g., dancing cars, etc.).

I hope so too. Hopefully it’ll be soon. Maybe they’ll start the retrofits prior to the FSD with city stop light/sign recognition?

 

[Az_Rael]

I hope so too. Hopefully it’ll be soon. Maybe they’ll start the retrofits prior to the FSD with city stop light/sign recognition?

Elon stated recently end of Q4 for retrofits. You can add whatever variable of “Elon time” to that for a guess on when they will actually start.

 

[run-the-joules]

Elon stated recently end of Q4 for retrofits. You can add whatever variable of “Elon time” to that for a guess on when they will actually start.

View attachment 429605

Just in time for the 2028 presidential election.

 

[jebinc]

I hope so too. Hopefully it’ll be soon. Maybe they’ll start the retrofits prior to the FSD with city stop light/sign recognition?

That's logical...

 

[MexiCanuck]

Aside from the technical ability, there is also the regulatory aspect. Tesla may say that a feature is ready. That doesn’t mean every, or any, regulator agrees to permit its use.