Tesla's liability for promising FSD later this year

[jebinc]

Aside from the technical ability, there is also the regulatory aspect. Tesla may say that a feature is ready. That doesn’t mean every, or any, regulator agrees to permit its use.

Yep, limited deployment!

 

[KJD]

It would seem to me that Tesla's liability would be close to zero. My Model 3 is a great car to drive although I would agree that FSD is one thing that does live up to the hype.

 

[Bill Foster]

I don’t get why people always look for handouts. You paid for something that doesn’t exist yet, and while the company is promising for a end of year delivery it doesn’t mean the owe you anything more than what was promised. Surely the fine print acknowledges that it’s just a timeframe.

Unfortunately it’s the situation we live in now.

How can someone else pay for my issue/misfortune.

 

[YusufT]

Just the 6k refund? I'd wonder what the courts would say. It's not unreasonable that you purchased the entire car with the expectations it would drive itself. Perhaps somebody would want a different car without that feature. This could get ugly if they don't deliver.

Why would they owe you more than “just the 6k refund”? Please name me someone that bought a car solely because of a unreleased future promise so I can call them an idiot.

 

[A321ELAC]

Unfortunately it’s the situation we live in now.

How can someone else pay for my issue/misfortune.

I'm confused what the handout is? People paid 6k and if it doesn't come to fruition end of year they'll want a refund. I was merely curious what the legal ramifications are going to be if/when they fail to deliver. It doesn't say estimated by end of year. It says by end of year. Is there other fine print that people are referring to?

It's a little eye opening how hardcore people are at defending Tesla. I love my car. I love AP. I certainly don't want a refund. But I would totally understand if people come demanding 6k or to return the car entirely. And legally I believe a class action lawsuit would result in some kind of settlement.

 

[A321ELAC]

Why would they owe you more than “just the 6k refund”? Please name me someone that bought a car solely because of a unreleased future promise so I can call them an idiot.

Elon said you are buying a appreciation asset because of the FSD capability in the future. I'm sure people bought the car because of these promises. I wouldn't call those people idiots.

Edit: By more I mean returning the car completely.

 

[diamond.g]

That is only true when on the Tesla network. Which has no timeline.

 

[diamond.g]

Perhaps this has been discussed but I didn't see anything. We are in middle of July and the website still says FSD by end of year (responding to traffic lights and driving in the city).

Assuming this doesn't happen which I believe to be the case what's Teslas liability on this? Would they be forced to refund FSD cost? Return the whole car? It's not unreasonable for the average Joe - who isn't aware of the Musk time line - to expect a multi billion dollar company to deliver on a spelled out promise while purchasing a 50k car.

Let me end by saying I'm a huge Tesla fan and hope FSD comes quickly. Just wondering how this could effect Tesla if we get to end of year without having the things they are promising in a product.

We still don’t have Enhanced Summon. Seems like lower hanging fruit to be upset about before FSD.

 

[JulienW]

Elon said you are buying a appreciation asset because of the FSD capability in the future.....

 

[quikshifter]

Yeah I'm down for a refund if not delivered by year end.

 

[MrG_NY]

As a person looking from the outside I would expect at the very least they refund the $6k if not delivered by year end.

I am on the fence on getting a M3 wi(h the QC issues I have been reading about and how Tesla isn’t stepping up and fixing the issues. FSD is one option I have been back and forth about. My concern would be ordering the option on the leased vehicle and not getting it and paying for it. If I was buying the vehicle and it was a bit later I may be ok with it but not happy.

I drove the car and have my configuration all set. Just waiting for my lease end.

 

[Wado]

Have they told you yet when you're going to get your HW3 retrofit? They have been delivering new cars with it for few months now.

Actually Elon talked about it he other day and they are looking to start installing upgrade boards in the fourth quarter. he said there is no rush at this time because there is no divergence in software at this time but that should change in the fourth quarter.

 

[YusufT]

I'm confused what the handout is? People paid 6k and if it doesn't come to fruition end of year they'll want a refund. I was merely curious what the legal ramifications are going to be if/when they fail to deliver. It doesn't say estimated by end of year. It says by end of year. Is there other fine print that people are referring to?

It's a little eye opening how hardcore people are at defending Tesla. I love my car. I love AP. I certainly don't want a refund. But I would totally understand if people come demanding 6k or to return the car entirely. And legally I believe a class action lawsuit would result in some kind of settlement.

No one’s hardcore defending Tesla here lmao we just have common sense. A company that continuously delays or misses “projected dates” is expected for them to miss another deadline. No one would be surprised. Either you didn’t do your homework when purchasing a Tesla or, like i said, are expecting a handout.

You don’t have to continuously repeat you love Tesla that’s irrelevant no one is saying you’re a troll/hater. FSD is a promise, most will say won’t be achievable this year. Most people with common sense bought FSD for the current features it provides, the one’s that didn’t see enough value is waiting for more features to be released.

 

[YusufT]

Elon said you are buying a appreciation asset because of the FSD capability in the future. I'm sure people bought the car because of these promises. I wouldn't call those people idiots.

Edit: By more I mean returning the car completely.

Oh wow a CEO trying to sell his products with the company’s ambitions we should sue them.

 

[diamond.g]

As a person looking from the outside I would expect at the very least they refund the $6k if not delivered by year end.

I am on the fence on getting a M3 wi(h the QC issues I have been reading about and how Tesla isn’t stepping up and fixing the issues. FSD is one option I have been back and forth about. My concern would be ordering the option on the leased vehicle and not getting it and paying for it. If I was buying the vehicle and it was a bit later I may be ok with it but not happy.

I drove the car and have my configuration all set. Just waiting for my lease end.

All of FSD isn’t available, but some of it is. Enhanced Summon, NoA City, and Traffic light recognition is missing. NoA Highway and Auto Lane Change are available.

Without FSD all you get is (advanced) lane keeping and traffic aware cruise control.

 

[jebinc]

As a person looking from the outside I would expect at the very least they refund the $6k if not delivered by year end.

I am on the fence on getting a M3 wi(h the QC issues I have been reading about and how Tesla isn’t stepping up and fixing the issues. FSD is one option I have been back and forth about. My concern would be ordering the option on the leased vehicle and not getting it and paying for it. If I was buying the vehicle and it was a bit later I may be ok with it but not happy.

I drove the car and have my configuration all set. Just waiting for my lease end.

Keep in mind, that "Quality issues" are very limited/the exception and not the norm - go on any auto manufacturers (e.g., BMW, Lexus, MB, Cadillac, etc.) forum and you'll see the same. People usually post on forums more when they are unhappy, or have an issue/question/concern to raise, than when everything goes smoothly. I was nervous as well, prior to delivery, based on what I read here - low and behold, zero issues at delivery, or afterwards (so far). I would propose this is more the "norm" than "issues" reported are.

 

[Bill Foster]

I'm confused what the handout is? People paid 6k and if it doesn't come to fruition end of year they'll want a refund. I was merely curious what the legal ramifications are going to be if/when they fail to deliver. It doesn't say estimated by end of year. It says by end of year. Is there other fine print that people are referring to?

It's a little eye opening how hardcore people are at defending Tesla. I love my car. I love AP. I certainly don't want a refund. But I would totally understand if people come demanding 6k or to return the car entirely. And legally I believe a class action lawsuit would result in some kind of settlement.

They could easily say “yes it’s ready but government red tape won’t allow us”

 

[jebinc]

Actually Elon talked about it he other day and they are looking to start installing upgrade boards in the fourth quarter. he said there is no rush at this time because there is no divergence in software at this time but that should change in the fourth quarter.

I agree with that point.

 

[jebinc]

They could easily say “yes it’s ready but government red tape won’t allow us”

Yes, they indeed could and might actually be right when saying it.

 

[MrG_NY]

Keep in mind, that "Quality issues" are very limited/the exception and not the norm - go on any auto manufacturers (e.g., BMW, Lexus, MB, Cadillac, etc.) forum and you'll see the same. People usually post on forums more when they are unhappy, or have an issue/question/concern to raise, than when everything goes smoothly. I was nervous as well, prior to delivery, based on what I read here - low and behold, zero issues at delivery, or afterwards (so far). I would propose this is more the "norm" than "issues" reported are.

I read posts with an open mind. I know most will post when unhappy to vent. Some posts you read you say to yourself why was this posted? I get coming on to ask questions and get answers. Others posts you read and say why you take it if it is that bad.