And then the judge in a class action could easily say “refund the $6000 (plus interest and lawyer fees) if you can’t make a product (that passes government red tape) you sold for real hard cash to trusting customers”.
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Tesla's liability for promising FSD later this year
- Thread starter A321ELAC
- Start date
And then the judge in a class action could easily say “refund the $6000 (plus interest and lawyer fees) if you can’t make a product (that passes government red tape) you sold for real hard cash to trusting customers”.
Uncle Don
Member
Does anybody know how many people actually paid for the How kany people said, "Here! Take my $6000 for something that may work in the future."? Out of all those that paid how many would actually want a refund? It would seem that most people, at least on the forum, know about Elon time and that when he said the end of the year, he didn't say what year.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
Um I never said I wanted a refund or handout. In fact the opposite. I wouldn't take it if offered because I like the features that the 6k provides. However I believe other people will and rightfully so, ask for a refund if Tesla doesn't deliver.
The whole point of this thread was to get some opinions on how Tesla will be legally held responsible for making these promises. I'm an investor and owner so calm down.
Doing homework on a car makes 0 difference whether or not Tesla is promising a feature that most likely will either not be out by end of year or possibly ever.
3 scenarios are possibly in my mind.
1) Tesla is still confident in FSD within 6 months
2) They know it won't be done but there is legal precedent where they can make false promises/advertising
3) Elon is forcing the time line even though it isn't feasible and the company will suffer accordingly.
Which do you think it is?
jebinc
Well-Known Member
I heard a lot of the autopilot team quit, citing #3. Read that in an article earlier this week.
Bill Foster
I'm going home!
RobDickinson
Active Member
This thread is nonsense. Read the bolded sentence below. If any expected feature is not enabled by the end of this year it will be because reliability is not far in excess of a human driver. When it is you will get an update.
Read this and your opinion does not matter....
The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.
Read this and your opinion does not matter....
The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.
Mysta
Former Vendor
Yep, and you'll start walking down a slippery slope. Think of the features you're getting weekly, no other cars have that(updates), especially free.
DanCar
Active Member
If you purchased when the options where EAP was an option and then FSD on top of that, you got value added out of your EAP and did not pay $6k for FSD. (Correct me if i am wrong)
If you bought recently with basic AP included and FSD a $6k option you got the EAP benefits for your purchase if nothing else so cannot claim they did not deliver a benefit for your money.
The way the current website is worded a customer would be a fool to put a firm timeline on the full self drive capabilities.
How it was worded in 2018 I don’t know but it also priced differently (broken down differently)
If you bought recently with basic AP included and FSD a $6k option you got the EAP benefits for your purchase if nothing else so cannot claim they did not deliver a benefit for your money.
The way the current website is worded a customer would be a fool to put a firm timeline on the full self drive capabilities.
How it was worded in 2018 I don’t know but it also priced differently (broken down differently)
Sir Guacamolaf
The good kind of fat
AP2 delays caused a class action lawsuit, especially considering that on a 4 year lease, it was almost 3 years after they released this feature. The lawyers won. The owners got somewhere between $20-$280 in compensation. And you know how class action lawsuit compensation works right? The lawyers send a US Mail letter to those registered in the law suit, then you have to fill a form to get your $20.
So if you registered, and you didn't discard that letter as junk mail (because that is how it looks like), and you trusted this as legit, and provided your real info, .. eventually .. you'd get a check for $20... and that is _if_ someone bothers to file a class action lawsuit. I know in the S and X forums, there was a lot of debate and discussion before such a lawsuit was filed.
Read more here - Tesla agrees to settle class action over Autopilot billed as 'safer' - Reuters ... quote -->
"Under the proposed agreement, class members, who paid to get the Autopilot upgrade between 2016 and 2017, will receive between $20 and $280 in compensation. Tesla has agreed to place more than $5 million into a settlement fund, which will also cover attorney fees."
TL;DR; .. you paid for FSD, that's an interest free loan with no maturity you've given to Tesla. That's about it.
So if you registered, and you didn't discard that letter as junk mail (because that is how it looks like), and you trusted this as legit, and provided your real info, .. eventually .. you'd get a check for $20... and that is _if_ someone bothers to file a class action lawsuit. I know in the S and X forums, there was a lot of debate and discussion before such a lawsuit was filed.
Read more here - Tesla agrees to settle class action over Autopilot billed as 'safer' - Reuters ... quote -->
"Under the proposed agreement, class members, who paid to get the Autopilot upgrade between 2016 and 2017, will receive between $20 and $280 in compensation. Tesla has agreed to place more than $5 million into a settlement fund, which will also cover attorney fees."
TL;DR; .. you paid for FSD, that's an interest free loan with no maturity you've given to Tesla. That's about it.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
You forgot to say that most of the money put aside went to the lawyer's who filed the suit on behalf of the owners!
Uncle Don
Member
You forgot to say that most of the money put aside went to the lawyer's who filed the suit on behalf of the owners!
That's the way class action suits always work.
Sir Guacamolaf
The good kind of fat
You forgot to say that most of the money put aside went to the lawyer's who filed the suit on behalf of the owners!
I didn't say that because that is not what happened, at least not here. 17.7% of the fees went to attorneys which .. in a class action lawsuit is, pretty good. Although, I do agree with your general point, in class action lawsuits, Tesla loses, owner's lose, attorneys win. Here is a breakdown of costs - http://www.autopilotsettlement.com/media/1621242/motion_for_fees___costs.pdf
jebinc
Well-Known Member
Oh, wow... never would have guessed that. Thanks for correcting my misstatement!
There will not be limited location release of FSD features except perhaps by country. Tesla's AP and EAP features are not location dependent as many other autonomous aspirants are. They work anywhere the cars sensors have enough information. You will be able to use all the FSD features so long as there is an engaged driver. Autonomous operation will be by legal jurisdictions.
notAnExpert
Member
You make a very good point. For about 4 months now, without any apparent liability, tesla.com order page for FSD has claimed the following, as though it is currently available:
- Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
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