The M3 terrifies BMW

[EaglesPDX]

I believe the OP had attached two videos, and both of them showed a BMW 330e

For people attached to the status and "real car" aspect of the Tesla's, the BMW 330e would provide an excellent alternative to waiting for a T3. As we saw upstream, the Ford Fusion Energi is almost identical in MPGe and emissions to the Tesla 70D but for the status drivers, the BMW would give them what they want.

BMW 330e 73 MPGe
Tesla 70D 89 MPGe

BMW 330e 300 g/mile GHG
Tesla 70D 190 g/mile GHG

With its range of "e" vehicles, BMW accounts for 8,500 plus of plug in's sold in the US, over 10% of the total. Good work,

 

[EaglesPDX]

S60 is affordable with income under 100k, as long as you have budget and planning skills.

Not according to any of the basic financial budgeting and planning advice calculators. I referenced one above. Can you point to one that shows a $100K car matching to a $100K income?

 

[Odebek]

It's not "logic" it is basic budgeting that you will find in just about all financial planning programs. http://www.moneyunder30.com/.

Lol, Did you try the car affordability calculator on that site? It makes my point exactly:

 

[ohmman]

Can you point to one that shows a $100K car matching to a $100K income?

I can!! Me! Me! Call on me.

This guy seems to claim a lot of authority on the matter:

Bottom line is that a $100K car is luxury purchase done by those in the top 20% income bracket.

For those who get numbers and math - top 20% income bracket is $100k/year.

Problem solved.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Lol, Did you try the car affordability calculator on that site? It makes my point exactly:

Lol...except there are 12 months in a year and you were off by $20,000 in income and the car value becomes $53K.

But at $100K to $120K one is still in the top 20% of income so it makes my point exactly, $100K car is for the highest income groups in the US. The T3 at average $42K, using your basics in the calculator would be an $84,000 income, well over the $52,000 median income in the US. Income Percentile Calculator - Find Your Percent With WhatsMyPercent.com

$186,000 income for the $100,000 Teslas.

 

[TrevTremaine]

BMW has this going for them - great build quality, vast service network, name recognition, and familiarity.

What they don't have is a clue.

I'll disagree. My previous 2008 BMW 535xi Touring was a nightmare (problems with engine, transmission, fuel injectors, ignition, sunroof, telematics, fuel injectors (yes, I'm repeating it because I went in several times to have them replaced in 4 years of ownership), rear suspension, and several other niggling problems). I also had a 2001 330Xi with a few problem too. Now, I'll give credit to BMW for improving their situation since that time, but I still see and hear of far too many of those vehicles breaking down regularly. Most buyers still look to offload their BMWs before the warranty runs out because of problems as well as the sudden and dramatic drop in value. On my block, there's only 2 BMWs left out of 7. Everyone went in other directions because of the problems they had. Ironically, before I got my S, I was deep in discussions with a BMW dealer about an X3 or 3 Touring and had a long, long heart-to-heart talk with a couple of salesmen. They actually convinced me through some of their questions that trying a Tesla was a good idea (they started asking me about my experience with BMWs). I got the feeling that they were quite agitated when I told them my final decision - they even tried to sell me a 7 series, but I wouldn't bite. BMW did try to rectify the problems in my cars, but in the end the poor quality showed through.

 

[cman8]

Lol...except there are 12 months in a year and you were off by $20,000 in income and the car value becomes $53K.

But at $100K to $120K one is still in the top 20% of income so it makes my point exactly, $100K car is for the highest income groups in the US. The T3 at average $42K, using your basics in the calculator would be an $84,000 income, well over the $52,000 median income in the US. Income Percentile Calculator - Find Your Percent With WhatsMyPercent.com

$186,000 income for the $100,000 Teslas.

I dont make near 186k yet I own a tesla s. Like someone mentioned above, Planning and budgeting as well as saving is whats making me be able to have this great car

 

[Odebek]

But at $100K to $120K one is still in the top 20% of income so it makes my point exactly.

LOL, I guess you forgot about this "point" that you made a couple hours ago:

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income.

 

[AustinPowers]

In German, the verb always comes at the end of the sentence.

BMW = Bigtime Myself Wetting.

???

Since when is "wetting" a verb?
And actually the verb very rarely comes at the end of the sentence in German. Perhaps you should learn the language first, before such statements you make. Wait, now I know, the secret of Yoda's species has been discovered - he was German

And as for the BMW commercial: interesting, they never have ads like that over here. Oh, well, guess the German BMW marketing guys don't have a sense of humour after all...

 

[AustinPowers]

BMW, I will be happy to wait for my Model 3. Sure, I'd like to have it now, but I can wait.

I feel quite lucky when watching these ads. I drive a BMW now, which is an awesome ICE, yet I have a reservation for a Model 3. So in effect, I don't have to "wait". I have what "only BMW can" (what a stupid tagline), namely a great ICE, right now to transport me along until my Model 3 arrives, when I will happily make the switch to the great BEV that "only Tesla can" (at least it sure seems like that currently)

 

[Red Sage]

From the looks of this thread gone wild, it is the BMW i3 that is terrifying some of the Teslarati.

The BMW i3 is a terrifying example of a compromised compliance car.

 

[xav-]

I don't know where you guys live. But making $100k in

S60 is affordable with income under 100k, as long as you have budget and planning skills. The cost savings over 8 years over some gasoline car with similar size and performance for a commuter is very substantial. It's quite easy to get into a situation with a long commute and a car in the mid to high 20's where you've spent more for gasoline and oil changes than the purchase price of the car.

i don't know where you live, but I don't know many households
driving $80k cars on $100k incomes. I think you should go back to reality. $700k houses, $2k a month day care.. 401k contributions, CDs that yield .1 percent, college debt etc. That is the reality for many people making $100k incomes .

Of course if you are one of the lucky who bought a house for a quarter of the price in the 1990s then yeah buying a tesla on a $100k income is no problem. But hey some of us were too young for that back in the 90s.

Cost savings over what? What cars do you drive? Where I live its 15 cents per kWh.. 60 KWh that's $9 to drive 200 mile. It's not that much less than a Prius. Then a low mileage lease will cost $35,000 over 3 years and this is for a base car with very few options. That's a lot of gallons of gas even in California where I live. I see people lease 5 series for under $400 a month and they leave 0 down.

Then what about maintenance, what about expensive repairs, what about the reliability issues? Did you read the posts in the model s section? There is a consensus that the car is not reliable enough and that it is too expensive to fix even among the model s fans in this forum.

 

[xav-]

For people attached to the status and "real car" aspect of the Tesla's, the BMW 330e would provide an excellent alternative to waiting for a T3. As we saw upstream, the Ford Fusion Energi is almost identical in MPGe and emissions to the Tesla 70D but for the status drivers, the BMW would give them what they want.

BMW 330e 73 MPGe
Tesla 70D 89 MPGe

BMW 330e 300 g/mile GHG
Tesla 70D 190 g/mile GHG

With its range of "e" vehicles, BMW accounts for 8,500 plus of plug in's sold in the US, over 10% of the total. Good work,

But bmw has 66 pc residual after 3 years / 10k miles, offer additional 10 pc off MSRP then offers 4 years free maintenance.

Why can't tesla offer a descent option to lease a model S for the middle class? I can find loaded demo P90Ds for $1,050 a month yet a base 60 with leather and autopilot costs nearly $900. That is non sense.

$700 should lease a well equipped S60. Not a stripper with cloth seats!

 

[Yggdrasill]

You don't need to make extremely much money to be able to afford a Model S or X.

In my current job I make about 70k USD per year (I did make up to around 120k for a couple of years, because of travelling/overtime), and started my career 8 years ago with about 30k in student loans and no assets besides my computer and clothing. Today, I could easily buy a P90D with cash. Of course, it's probably not *smart* to do so. That's why I have a Model 3 reservation. (I will also consider a 5 seat X60D.) And I probably won't use all cash, I'm thinking like 25k USD down and an 8 year payment plan for the rest - borrowing money is pretty cheap at the moment.

It all comes down to how good you are with money. If you consistently make stupid financial decisions, you will never be able to afford a Model S, or maybe any new car. And if you make the right decisions, work hard and invest in the future, money won't be an issue.

 

[Jayc]

I think there are several categories of Model S buyers:

* Top earners who like the idea of a less polluting car - those who can even afford a 200k+ car
* High earners who can easily afford an S even where it doesn't make financial sense to them
* Those who have the savings and a sufficient income to get a Model S but it has to make financial sense
* Some will really stretch to limits to get a Model S but might still make money sense because its an EV
* Reckless impulse buyers who buy first and think later

With Tesla S and Tesla in general, I think there is wider demography of buyers compared to ICE so it is sometimes difficult to paint the picture in black and while.

 

[Chopr147]

I don't know where you guys live. But making $100k in

i don't know where you live, but I don't know many households
driving $80k cars on $100k incomes. I think you should go back to reality. $700k houses, $2k a month day care.. 401k contributions, CDs that yield .1 percent, college debt etc. That is the reality for many people making $100k incomes .

Of course if you are one of the lucky who bought a house for a quarter of the price in the 1990s then yeah buying a tesla on a $100k income is no problem. But hey some of us were too young for that back in the 90s.

forum.

You make a good point. 100k income is not debt free before an S purchase. Many are living above their means. I did buy a house in the 90's (2 of them) and both times felt like I was paying too much. Looking back on it now feels like a steal, 2008 crash or not.
On the gas front: My Yukon has a gallon gas counter and I have used 7350 gallons since buying in 2008. (Gas was over $4.25 at the time) Using $3.00 a gallon as an average , I have spent $22,050 on gas alone in the past 8 years! I will love passing gas stations when the S comes in Savings $200 a month

 

[JeffK]

Why can't tesla offer a descent option to lease a model S for the middle class? I can find loaded demo P90Ds for $1,050 a month yet a base 60 with leather and autopilot costs nearly $900. That is non sense.

$700 should lease a well equipped S60. Not a stripper with cloth seats!

I'm not sure what you're talking about .... a base RWD S60 with premium upgrades and autopilot is $750 a month ($677 after estimated cost savings).

You can't expect a fully loaded car for the same price. That would be crazy talk.

 

[idoco]

...Not a stripper with cloth seats!

Have you even seen the cloth seats in an S/X? We're not talking about 1970's Honda Civic!

I have cloth in one and leather in the other. I personally prefer the cloth.

 

[Pollux]

It's a safe bet that BMW knows what is going to happen to 3 Series sales, cause it's already happening. The 9 digit number in the last column is probably what led to the commercials...

I'm two or three pages into this thread, with many pages left to catch up on. So I apologize in advance if this point has already been made.

I'm struck by the 98% decline in Toyota Prius Plug-In sales. While it's harder to be certain of the Model 3 impact versus changing market conditions (e.g., increase in some BMW X model sales pointed out by others in this thread), I think the Prius Plug-In decline is likely predominantly a Model 3 effect.

Alan

 

[dsvick]

I'd love to see what their fully electric 3-series will be like. I think we all win if there are more alternatives/competition that drives innovation as each company "borrows" the best ideas from their competitors to improve their cars.

I agree, I'd love for there to be more options out there, all with their own technologies, options, and looks. I've got a M3 reserved because it is pretty much the only game in town at this point for a full EV, that looks good, has decent features, and has enough range that it will more than cover my daily commute. The more options the better for everyone, but I don't really think a hybrid is a serious option. It is, at best, a stop gap measure meant to make assuage peoples range anxiety, and to be a compliance car for the manufacturer.

Uh...no...i3 can be purchased without the kicker and with 80 mile range.

Only 80 miles of range is hardly compelling

The BMW i3 is around $48K. With the T3 two years out for most people, BMW's i3 is a fair replacement. The i3 is selling well and on track for nearly 10,000 sales this year. That is exactly what Tesla and Musk want...Tesla to spur more EV sales.

Or, you could get a well optioned M3, with almost triple the range for the same price.