The M3 terrifies BMW

[EaglesPDX]

You have been on this forum long enough to know differently. I was a little surprised myself S owners are not "rich and famous" .

Demographics and economics make your online assessment invalid. While Americans typically pay more for a car then they should based on a budget, Tesla at $100,000 plus is THREE TIMES the average car price.

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income. And that for a Tesla that few have purchased with most purchased to date in the $100K range. Let's go All American and get TWICE the car we can afford, that puts the $66K cheap Tesla into the hands of those making $330,000 a year, That's 1% er territory. Can't answer for the "famous" but definitely the rich by any metric.

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.

The T3 at $42K average is for those with $225,000 income and that is using the 20% of income for a car. One could stretch it to 30% for older folks with home paid off (still have taxes, insurance, maintenance on the house and kids though), that's still $140,000 yearly income, top 15% in US. About the same for the i3 ($48K) which is for 80 mile range. If its a trade in on the 2nd family car for one of the daily job commuters or for Mom's taxi, good choice. Moving the EV conversion forward.

Have two friends leasing i3 and eGolf respectively. They might get T3's in three years but good on them getting affordable EV's now. Thumbs down on the bad apple Tesla snobs who criticize them and BMW.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Tesla's mission statement, in part, says "...to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible". I'm not sure you could call the BMW in ad either "electric" or "compelling".

Electric for sure. Mass market more than Tesla for now. Compelling....is for them to get an EV now and do their part. Musk would approve. Musk and Tesla would not approve of the Tesla snobs (many wannabe Tesla snobs waiting on a T3) critiquing them as the Tesla mission statement notes.

 

[AWDtsla]

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.

No, having charging at you place of work is just a fine alternative. Regardless, I don't think there are that many people in the middle ground. Let's say a city dweller who has no fixed parking spot. Cities don't like cars anyway, and they're trying to do everything possible to eliminate them. Suburbs are the home of the personal car.

 

[gregd]

Here is the crazy thing... the BMW 330e with options costs $62,345, so you don't have to wait at all, just buy a Model S for $66,000!!!

And now this....from Car and Driver: "With gentle accelerator pressure, the iPerformance will motor up to a top speed of 75 mph for a maximum of 14 miles, according to BMW, assuming the battery was fully charged at the start. When the driver inevitably grows weary of turtle mode, pressing deeper on the accelerator pedal—say, to execute a safe pass—automatically fires up the turbo four-cylinder."

Yeah, I read that too. Given the dynamics of freeway traffic, to execute a safe pass, you need to time things so that:
1. The on-board computer figures out that you've stomped on the accelerator pedal
1. The ICE engine fires up
2. The turbo spins up
3. All this stuff gets linked to your wheels
Then you can pass (assuming the passing window still exists).

By that time, my Tesla would have already executed the pass, and with a lot more certainty (safety).

Sheesh...

 

[Red Sage]

Can't answer for the "famous" but definitely the rich by any metric.

Not quite 'by any metric'. Here in California, I'm pretty sure that 'rich' starts somewhere well over $10,000,000 in assets. And that's just for incredibly frugal people. Enough dough to get by for 30 years or so without absolutely having to go to work, and enjoying life in a place almost entirely devoid of weather. If you want to be 'Rich and BALLIN', you need quite a lot more duckets on hand in these parts. Under $400,000 per year is just a guy with a decent job -- not 'rich' at all.

 

[Saghost]

Demographics and economics make your online assessment invalid. While Americans typically pay more for a car then they should based on a budget, Tesla at $100,000 plus is THREE TIMES the average car price.

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income. And that for a Tesla that few have purchased with most purchased to date in the $100K range. Let's go All American and get TWICE the car we can afford, that puts the $66K cheap Tesla into the hands of those making $330,000 a year, That's 1% er territory. Can't answer for the "famous" but definitely the rich by any metric.

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.

The T3 at $42K average is for those with $225,000 income and that is using the 20% of income for a car. One could stretch it to 30% for older folks with home paid off (still have taxes, insurance, maintenance on the house and kids though), that's still $140,000 yearly income, top 15% in US. About the same for the i3 ($48K) which is for 80 mile range. If its a trade in on the 2nd family car for one of the daily job commuters or for Mom's taxi, good choice. Moving the EV conversion forward.

Have two friends leasing i3 and eGolf respectively. They might get T3's in three years but good on them getting affordable EV's now. Thumbs down on the bad apple Tesla snobs who criticize them and BMW.

If you're buying with cash without saving up and replacing the car every year, sure.

But that's not me, nor most of the rest of this forum.

A whole lot of us are buying well above our normal habits and close to the limit of our means because we believe in the car and the mission, and I'm pretty sure they're are more of us here than of the 1% people you think should be buying Tesla cars.
Walter

 

[ohmman]

Demographics and economics make your online assessment invalid. While Americans typically pay more for a car then they should based on a budget, Tesla at $100,000 plus is THREE TIMES the average car price.

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income. And that for a Tesla that few have purchased with most purchased to date in the $100K range. Let's go All American and get TWICE the car we can afford, that puts the $66K cheap Tesla into the hands of those making $330,000 a year, That's 1% er territory. Can't answer for the "famous" but definitely the rich by any metric.

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.

The T3 at $42K average is for those with $225,000 income and that is using the 20% of income for a car. One could stretch it to 30% for older folks with home paid off (still have taxes, insurance, maintenance on the house and kids though), that's still $140,000 yearly income, top 15% in US. About the same for the i3 ($48K) which is for 80 mile range. If its a trade in on the 2nd family car for one of the daily job commuters or for Mom's taxi, good choice. Moving the EV conversion forward.

Have two friends leasing i3 and eGolf respectively. They might get T3's in three years but good on them getting affordable EV's now. Thumbs down on the bad apple Tesla snobs who criticize them and BMW.

Your math is confusing.

$100k is 3x the average vehicle price --> average vehicle price = $33k.
Rule of thumb is car costs are 10% of income --> average income must be $330k/year.
But Americans are getting twice what they can afford --> average income is now $165k/year.

Sounds like the income gap doesn't exist. Everyone's doing really well!

It's possible you're doing this on purpose, but if not, I suggest you revisit your numbers.

 

[mrkymarc]

Demographics and economics make your online assessment invalid. While Americans typically pay more for a car then they should based on a budget, Tesla at $100,000 plus is THREE TIMES the average car price.

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income. And that for a Tesla that few have purchased with most purchased to date in the $100K range. Let's go All American and get TWICE the car we can afford, that puts the $66K cheap Tesla into the hands of those making $330,000 a year, That's 1% er territory. Can't answer for the "famous" but definitely the rich by any metric.

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.

The T3 at $42K average is for those with $225,000 income and that is using the 20% of income for a car. One could stretch it to 30% for older folks with home paid off (still have taxes, insurance, maintenance on the house and kids though), that's still $140,000 yearly income, top 15% in US. About the same for the i3 ($48K) which is for 80 mile range. If its a trade in on the 2nd family car for one of the daily job commuters or for Mom's taxi, good choice. Moving the EV conversion forward.

Have two friends leasing i3 and eGolf respectively. They might get T3's in three years but good on them getting affordable EV's now. Thumbs down on the bad apple Tesla snobs who criticize them and BMW.

I think you're a bit off on your guidance there. You're saying a person making $100k a year shouldn't ever buy a new car as $10k new cars aren't really offered. 10% of income for yearly transportation costs might be a good number, but you need to take into account financing and eventual car resale value. A $35k Model 3 might total 50k over 5 years with taxes, fees, financing, maintenance, insurance, electricity, etc. That's 10% of a $100k a year income assuming no resale value. That seems about right for income for a person to afford a model 3 if they sell after 5 years. If you plan on keeping it longer, let's say 10 years, you can get down the income ladder pretty quickly for affordability.

 

[Drucifer]

Demographics and economics make your online assessment invalid. While Americans typically pay more for a car then they should based on a budget, Tesla at $100,000 plus is THREE TIMES the average car price.

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income.

Where do you get your thumb rules? I always used (and I think this is common) that a car can be up to half your annual gross income - so a Tesla Model S is in range of someone making $125k or more, taking into account tax credit and gas savings. The monthly PAYMENT shouldn't be more than 10% of your monthly take home income (lease or buy) - so you should take home $8k a month to cover that $800 monthly payment, for example.

 

[1208]

Surely if Tesla is 3x average car price then the wage of someone buying one should be 3x the average.

For USA average wage is $43,641.

So 3x average wage is $130,923.

Which in my book sounds about right.

I always thought anyone above £100,000/$130,000 should buy a tesla.

 

[Chopr147]

So I was not the only one confused with his "math". While many are living above their means I don't believe the average Americans are buying new $5000 cars. Avg. income $51k. Leasing of course helps many drive exotic wine valued vehicles with a beer income.
I have seen many Mercedes Benz, BMW etc....cars in the driveway of run down houses and wonder how they do it. We can probably agree too many people are 1 missed paycheck away from homelessness.

 

[MiamiNole]

Demographics and economics make your online assessment invalid. While Americans typically pay more for a car then they should based on a budget, Tesla at $100,000 plus is THREE TIMES the average car price.

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income. And that for a Tesla that few have purchased with most purchased to date in the $100K range. Let's go All American and get TWICE the car we can afford, that puts the $66K cheap Tesla into the hands of those making $330,000 a year, That's 1% er territory. Can't answer for the "famous" but definitely the rich by any metric.

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.

The T3 at $42K average is for those with $225,000 income and that is using the 20% of income for a car. One could stretch it to 30% for older folks with home paid off (still have taxes, insurance, maintenance on the house and kids though), that's still $140,000 yearly income, top 15% in US. About the same for the i3 ($48K) which is for 80 mile range. If its a trade in on the 2nd family car for one of the daily job commuters or for Mom's taxi, good choice. Moving the EV conversion forward.

Have two friends leasing i3 and eGolf respectively. They might get T3's in three years but good on them getting affordable EV's now. Thumbs down on the bad apple Tesla snobs who criticize them and BMW.

Gotta give it to you. You are one of the hardest working trolls I have ever seen!

 

[EVie'sDad]

This about as close to pissing down your leg as you can get with an ad campaign. Sorry BMW, but Elon might as well be your boogey man.

Priceless, watching them unplug a bmw charging at the rate of 3 miles/hr versus the superchargers which can do 270 miles/hr or better. It would take a bmw 7 hours at that rate just to get what I get plugging in at the office or at home for only one hour. and waiting, who's waiting?

That is laughable, people who can afford that type of house already have a model S or X or are buying one, they won't likely be lured away from Tesla by the likes of these ads, but it is very revealing to see BMW making such an overt attack at a market they think would prefer a hybrid with less than 30 miles range on electric alone that still runs on fossil fuels.

 

[tsla007]

Never forget that where you live also matters on how much you make in each profession.
Say a server admin over here in NYC makes 1/2 of what the same laid back job is in California.
The same job just 200 miles nw of Boston, MA will be 2/5th of the Cali job. So, by doing these
numbers based on income doesn't seem right to me. What matters is how good you are with
saving/investing.
So, demographics matters too. I want the mdl 3. Already have the S and thinking of selling it or giving it away in an employee drawing.
Model S is overkill for me.

 

[gavine]

Here is the crazy thing... the BMW 330e with options costs $62,345, so you don't have to wait at all, just buy a Model S for $66,000!!!

Subtract the $7500 federal tax credit and now the Model S is $58,500.00. And, don't forget local incentives ie: no sales tax on EV's in NJ) and fuel/maintenance savings and the S destroys the 330e all around.

Speaking of the tax credit, why didn't BMW make the battery large enough for it to qualify for the tax credit. Didn't Chevy specifically make the battery of the Volt whatever size it is to qualify? You would think that would make sense since the added cost would be possibly negated by the credit and you would have more EV-only range.

For the record, I have an i3 and I like it a lot. It's NOT great looking but it has a lot going for it. It's not a Tesla by any means, but if it weren't for having a Tesla first, I would have considered it the best car I have ever owned. As good as the i3 is, it makes me realize how much Tesla nailed it with the Model S and X. This assertion is mainly in the software/usability. The i3 software is awful. iDrive is a joke and the charging features and app leave a lot to be desired.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Priceless, watching them unplug a bmw charging at the rate of 3 miles/hr versus the superchargers which can do 270 miles/hr or better. It would take a bmw 7 hours at that rate just to get what I get plugging in at the office or at home for only one hour. and waiting, who's waiting?

That is laughable, people who can afford that type of house already have a model S or X or are buying one, they won't likely be lured away from Tesla by the likes of these ads, but it is very revealing to see BMW making such an overt attack at a market they think would prefer a hybrid with less than 30 miles range on electric alone that still runs on fossil fuels.

Sure BMW, no similarity whatsoever... NOT

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-medi...ogressive,q_80,w_800/cytjaho40tdycykunz1f.jpg

 

[TexasEV]

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.
.

No, Teslas don't require a home charging station, just a 50A outlet. Most owners have that installed for under $500.

 

[jerry33]

Your point is valid, but in this case BMW is probably doing what Safeway has tried to do with locally grown organic foods; they are promoting an illusion of the alternative. In the end, these ads indicate that BMW clearly understands what consumers want, but instead of giving them the actual alternative, they are hoping they can sell the feeling packaged in the same old wrapper.

That plan worked so well for the tire manufacturers when they introduced bias-belted tires instead of developing radial tires. Only one North American tire manufacturer is left from that exercise.

 

[mspohr]

Demographics and economics make your online assessment invalid. While Americans typically pay more for a car then they should based on a budget, Tesla at $100,000 plus is THREE TIMES the average car price.

Based on rule of thumb, car costs should be 10% of your income. At just the $66K for the cheapest Tesla, that's $660,000 yearly income. And that for a Tesla that few have purchased with most purchased to date in the $100K range. Let's go All American and get TWICE the car we can afford, that puts the $66K cheap Tesla into the hands of those making $330,000 a year, That's 1% er territory. Can't answer for the "famous" but definitely the rich by any metric.

All EV's pretty much require a home charging station which has it's own economic threashold.

The T3 at $42K average is for those with $225,000 income and that is using the 20% of income for a car. One could stretch it to 30% for older folks with home paid off (still have taxes, insurance, maintenance on the house and kids though), that's still $140,000 yearly income, top 15% in US. About the same for the i3 ($48K) which is for 80 mile range. If its a trade in on the 2nd family car for one of the daily job commuters or for Mom's taxi, good choice. Moving the EV conversion forward.

Have two friends leasing i3 and eGolf respectively. They might get T3's in three years but good on them getting affordable EV's now. Thumbs down on the bad apple Tesla snobs who criticize them and BMW.

"Car costs should be 10% of your income."
I think you need to review some basic economics.
People don't buy a new car every year.
They lease or finance a car. Cost to finance or lease a Tesla is $12,000 or $15,000 a year.
Anyone with income of $120,000 on up could buy a Tesla. (And they SHOULD)

 

[JeffK]

Sure BMW, no similarity whatsoever... NOT

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-medi...ogressive,q_80,w_800/cytjaho40tdycykunz1f.jpg

I think the Tesla one looks far sexier than the BMW clone.