The M3 terrifies BMW

[FlatSix911]

Great comparison ...

From the perspective of BMW, as is the case with most traditional automobile manufacturers (see Toyota's Mirai), the i3 BEV/i3 REX was an attempt to game the system by taking advantage of specific provisions of CARB regulations that provide extra-special ZEV Credit benefits to specific configurations of compliance cars. The idea was to combat the plug-in hybrid designs typically offered (and widely complained about by EV enthusiasts) that offer hundreds of miles of range on gasoline, but very few (9, 11, 13, 14, 20, 30 miles) on electric drive by setting up an incentive to build something that had a total range 51% electric and 49% ICE (or at least, close to those numbers). So, the i3 REX ended up with a teaspoon full of gasoline capacity to come just short of the maximum range the car could attain with electricity alone...
EPA Comparison: BMW i3 BEV, BMW i3 REX, BMW 330e, and Ford Fusion Energi

 

[AustinPowers]

Can you show me a configuration of the Tesla Model S 60 he mentioned that comes to $100,000?

Perhaps not in the US. But here in Germany, a well (not fully mind you) optioned S60 (non-D) is already more than 100K Euro or more than 112K USD. And some on the "European Market Situation and Outlook" thread still wonder why sales are so low in Germany

 

[malcolm]

In German, the verb always comes at the end of the sentence.

BMW = Bigtime Myself Wetting.

Someone who speaks German has pointed out to me that I should have written:

"In German, the presence of a subordinating conjunction moves the verb to the end of the sentence"

Which really helps the comedy.

Thank you.

 

[AustinPowers]

@malcolm:

But at least your German-speaking acquaintance is correct

 

[malcolm]

Yup. First rule: It's funny because it's true.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Yeah, I don't think Tesla has anything to worry about - compare Tesla's #'s to BMW's for the most recent month of July 2016.

USA Electric Car Sales Up 48% In July

Now who's terrified?

 

[SΞXY P100D]

110V charging huh?

So the lady in the commercial had to leave late after work because she was waiting for her car to finish charging. Nice touch.

 

[EVie'sDad]

110V charging huh?

So the lady in the commercial had to leave late after work because she was waiting for her car to finish charging. Nice touch.

I actually think she had to leave it there overnight, just to get across town. lol

Not to pour salt in an already open wound, but just today while at work on a slow charge, for less that 4 hours my Model S85D got 78 miles of charge....how long would that have taken at 3 miles/hr on a 110 volt connection?

answer: 26 hours....sorry bmw that is far too long for anyone to wait. Superchargers do almost 300 miles in one hour.

So I ask again, who's terrified? Now you know the answer to that question.

 

[Saghost]

I actually think she had to leave it there overnight, just to get across town. lol

Not to pour salt in an already open wound, but just today while at work on a slow charge, for less that 4 hours my Model S85D got 78 miles of charge....how long would that have taken at 3 miles/hr on a 110 volt connection?

answer: 26 hours....sorry bmw that is far too long for anyone to wait. Superchargers do almost 300 miles in one hour.

So I ask again, who's terrified? Now you know the answer to that question.

Tiny battery pack, remember? Leaving it overnight does no good, because the pack fills in only for or five hours on 110V (and still won't take you all the way across town.)

 

[Garlan Garner]

I don't know where you guys live. But making $100k in

i don't know where you live, but I don't know many households
driving $80k cars on $100k incomes. I think you should go back to reality. $700k houses, $2k a month day care.. 401k contributions, CDs that yield .1 percent, college debt etc. That is the reality for many people making $100k incomes .

Of course if you are one of the lucky who bought a house for a quarter of the price in the 1990s then yeah buying a tesla on a $100k income is no problem. But hey some of us were too young for that back in the 90s.

Cost savings over what? What cars do you drive? Where I live its 15 cents per kWh.. 60 KWh that's $9 to drive 200 mile. It's not that much less than a Prius. Then a low mileage lease will cost $35,000 over 3 years and this is for a base car with very few options. That's a lot of gallons of gas even in California where I live. I see people lease 5 series for under $400 a month and they leave 0 down.

Then what about maintenance, what about expensive repairs, what about the reliability issues? Did you read the posts in the model s section? There is a consensus that the car is not reliable enough and that it is too expensive to fix even among the model s fans in this forum.

I've been wanting to say this, however I didn't want to get blasted. The S made me struggle financially and that was stupid.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Perhaps not in the US. But here in Germany, a well (not fully mind you) optioned S60 (non-D) is already more than 100K Euro or more than 112K USD. And some on the "European Market Situation and Outlook" thread still wonder why sales are so low in Germany

I understand your response, but for the average reader a clarification, though. The Model S 60 starts at 77 040 eur in Germany, no? A fully optioned one - and this includes the largest wheels and 7 seats (which are needed to even get over 100k) - is around 105 440 eur, I think. There are plenty of well optioned Model S 60 alternatives below 100 000 eur. Also, the dollar exchange rate does not seem to translate. The difference is not 12%. today, it is more like 5%. or thereabouts.

Not to distract from the point that Model S is an expensive car in Europe, of course, and that yes you can exceed 100 000 dollars on one. But, really, a 100 000 eur car it is not in its base form, given reasonably expected options. I think calling the Model S a 80-85k eur (or 85-90k dollar) car in Europe would be more appropriate. This does still put it in the A8/7 Series/S Class range price-wise (just a bit under in starting price), so by no means an inexpensive car relatively speaking.

* All this excluding massively taxed car markets (sans EV exceptions) like Denmark now, which are a completely different question of course.

 

[dsvick]

I've been wanting to say this, however I didn't want to get blasted. The S made me struggle financially and that was stupid.

Yes, but are you happy with it? Sometimes it's ok to struggle just so long as it's a realistic one that you know can win with some perseverance. All those people who follow the guidance and only ever take the safe route have no fun!!

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yes, but are you happy with it? Sometimes it's ok to struggle just so long as it's a realistic one that you know can win with some perseverance. All those people who follow the guidance and only ever take the safe route have no fun!!

LOL.

Yes I'm happy, however it's not a full smile and I'm going to have to get rid of it once the M3 is available. I'm even thinking about going to California and driving the M3 back to Chicago.

Its not simply the monthly note of the M6.... Its the insurance and mandatory service calls that is adding up. The only thing that is really helping is the lack of having to buy gas. Everything else costs more than my ICE. But that's ok. I'll struggle through it.

 

[Krugerrand]

Friend with i3 bought it for his winter car...

So, he's not planning to leave the city any time soon, eh? Or does your friend not live in your specified locale?

 

[LEKTRK]

One of the lamest commercials I have ever seen. Comparing the 2 cars makes NO sense at all? BMW ad writers obviously have no clue what the model 3 even is...

 

[Krugerrand]

Be careful categorizing Model S/X owners into that narrow view. Meet a bunch of us (or jump into the S/X subforums) and you'll realize there are a variety of reasons people have chosen these vehicles. In most cases, it has absolutely nothing to do with status. In my case, it's in spite of any status that might be incidentally reflected upon me.

While I agree with the gist of your post, there is a reason that stereotypes exist and always will exist. It's also true that a lot of people don't like to be stereotyped (even if they fit it) because a stereotype tends to be viewed as a negative. You certainly viewed this particular stereotype as one as did the 15 (to date) other people who liked your post.

It's impossible to say what percentage of S/X owners bought for this or that reason. I've certainly seen plenty of posts on this forum over the years that clearly suggest status symbol buyer (Chinese buyers are known to be quite status conscience as part of their culture - Did I just stereotype? And yet Chinese posters confirm that all the time.) and I've seen plenty of posts clearly suggesting environmentally conscience buyer, or performance buyer, family buyer, utility buyer or, or, or.

My view is I don't care why people buy a Tesla, it's only important that they buy a Tesla.

 

[ohmman]

While I agree with the gist of your post, there is a reason that stereotypes exist and always will exist.

The reason is rooted in the biases that exist in our brain as a product of evolution. We tend to simplify things to make them easier to understand, and we tend to want to group others. This is one of the factors which has fed tribalism and wars over the millennia. Stereotypes are generally formulated with vastly incomplete pictures of a group, followed by a confirmation bias feedback loop. This is no way to make observations.

Here's a great example of that in play:

Chinese buyers are known to be quite status conscience as part of their culture - Did I just stereotype? And yet Chinese posters confirm that all the time.

I agree with Harold Evans, who said, "attempting to get at truth means rejecting stereotypes and clichés."

Stereotypes misguide because they force our brains to evaluate inside of a framework bereft of actual fact.

I will say that I committed a similar fallacy in my post, though. I said "in most cases, it has nothing to do with status," and you're correct. There's no way I can know that. I just assumed it based on my distaste for it and my tribal feelings with the rest of the owners here.

 

[Chopr147]

"Many" soccer Moms like the status of a big SUV here in suburbia I guess that makes me a soccer mom (I am a Dad by the way. )
I guess somewhere in the deep recesses of my mind I think about status but really I find it distasteful. Too phony. If I were concerned about status i would spend more than $10 on my shirts But I do love my cars and take good care of them. I will be somewhat embarrased by my S, to be delivered soon but will get over it quick once I am drving that baby!

 

[Garlan Garner]

I understand your response, but for the average reader a clarification, though. The Model S 60 starts at 77 040 eur in Germany, no? A fully optioned one - and this includes the largest wheels and 7 seats (which are needed to even get over 100k) - is around 105 440 eur, I think. There are plenty of well optioned Model S 60 alternatives below 100 000 eur. Also, the dollar exchange rate does not seem to translate. The difference is not 12%. today, it is more like 5%. or thereabouts.

Not to distract from the point that Model S is an expensive car in Europe, of course, and that yes you can exceed 100 000 dollars on one. But, really, a 100 000 eur car it is not in its base form, given reasonably expected options. I think calling the Model S a 80-85k eur (or 85-90k dollar) car in Europe would be more appropriate. This does still put it in the A8/7 Series/S Class range price-wise (just a bit under in starting price), so by no means an inexpensive car relatively speaking.

* All this excluding massively taxed car markets (sans EV exceptions) like Denmark now, which are a completely different question of course.

The only way I am paying $75K and up for a base model anything is if I absolutely HATE all of the options. Otherwise I can't imagine paying that much and not get what I want. I would rather stick with my ICE until I could afford it.

 

[Topher]

The i3 is selling well and on track for nearly 10,000 sales this year.

This, by you, is 'selling well'? We need 10 Million EVs per year, minimum.

plonk.

Thank you kindly.