Guess: The Tesla PEM is designed ("hard coded?") to charge the Roadster ESS/pack? So perhaps Toyota needed to use a different charger to work with the battery packs created for the RAV4EV2? I suspect that Toyota may intend to have a different PEM type thing in the production RAV4EV2 anyways. (I think that the current version is just a prototype/proof-of-concept somewhat cobbled together.)
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The New RAV4 EV
- Thread starter EVNow
- Start date
Guess: The Tesla PEM is designed ("hard coded?") to charge the Roadster ESS/pack? So perhaps Toyota needed to use a different charger to work with the battery packs created for the RAV4EV2? I suspect that Toyota may intend to have a different PEM type thing in the production RAV4EV2 anyways. (I think that the current version is just a prototype/proof-of-concept somewhat cobbled together.)
I have one on order and if they have that type of charging rate I will not take delivery. That is really not well engineered!!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Since the LEAF can do DC fast charging I doubt temperature management is an issue. Repeated fast charging will degrade most lithium chemistries other than the titanates like Altairnano.
What do they plan to change for production?
Charging? (specs?)
Batteries?
PEM?
Motor? (Will they use the Roadster type air-cooled motor? Model S type motor? Something new from Toyota?)
Any plans for an AWD version (instead of just FWD?)
They may not know yet, or not be willing to say, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Related, this article talks about Toyota's development of an AC induction motor, and mentions Tesla, but never mentions that they are currently working together.
http://www.economist.com/node/18750574?story_id=18750574&fsrc=rss
http://www.economist.com/node/18750574?story_id=18750574&fsrc=rss
strider
Active Member
Interesting. I believe the Economist article is referring to the Prius motors.
As for the RAV4 - this page: RAV4 EV Demonstration Program Has Tesla all over it. I suspect the gigaom article is a tempest in a teacup. I heard a rumor (can't recall where now) that Toyota was thinking of doing a lease-only thing w/ the RAV so it sounds like to me they haven't settled on exactly what they want and therefore haven't signed any contracts (in which they would have to commit to specific volumes, pricing, etc). If Toyota is still doing market research they simply may not be ready to sign those deals which is why "Tesla says it doesn’t have any signed agreements for powertrain component sales after 2011, according to its filing."
As for the RAV4 - this page: RAV4 EV Demonstration Program Has Tesla all over it. I suspect the gigaom article is a tempest in a teacup. I heard a rumor (can't recall where now) that Toyota was thinking of doing a lease-only thing w/ the RAV so it sounds like to me they haven't settled on exactly what they want and therefore haven't signed any contracts (in which they would have to commit to specific volumes, pricing, etc). If Toyota is still doing market research they simply may not be ready to sign those deals which is why "Tesla says it doesn’t have any signed agreements for powertrain component sales after 2011, according to its filing."
This was the release from just after the LA auto Show in 2010. Toyota said to stay tuned for regular porgram updates, of which there have been none.
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Nik
Got there eventually :-)
Picking up on this thread following the recent announcement of Toyota's 2012 fleet, there seem to be a couple of questions left unanswered.
1) What is the range of the 2012 RAV4EV? At the LA Auto show, Elon said that they chose to work with Toyota because their product was so much more compelling than anyone else's. The RAV4 isn't so good an ICE that it wins on this account, and I can't see it being cheaper than, say, the Renault Fluence, which is £18,000 (US$29K, inc sales tax). So, it must be the first 4-seat EV to make the step up from 100-mile ranges to something more significant, mustn't it?
2) Some reports say the RAV4EV will be only available on fleet deals, and I've not seen anything that says which markets will be getting cars in 2012. A roll out in two or three states in the US in 2012, the rest of the US and Japan in 2013 and Europe in early 2014 is no use...
With the right answers to these questions, this could be a useful EV for those who can't afford either a Model S or an I-MIEV.
1) What is the range of the 2012 RAV4EV? At the LA Auto show, Elon said that they chose to work with Toyota because their product was so much more compelling than anyone else's. The RAV4 isn't so good an ICE that it wins on this account, and I can't see it being cheaper than, say, the Renault Fluence, which is £18,000 (US$29K, inc sales tax). So, it must be the first 4-seat EV to make the step up from 100-mile ranges to something more significant, mustn't it?
2) Some reports say the RAV4EV will be only available on fleet deals, and I've not seen anything that says which markets will be getting cars in 2012. A roll out in two or three states in the US in 2012, the rest of the US and Japan in 2013 and Europe in early 2014 is no use...
With the right answers to these questions, this could be a useful EV for those who can't afford either a Model S or an I-MIEV.
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Seems this website no longer exists as we knew it: www.toyotarav4ev.com
Most of it's contents has moved here: RAV4 EV Demonstration Program
Most of it's contents has moved here: RAV4 EV Demonstration Program
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I suspect Toyota is primarily focused on the US/North American market in terms of 2012 release. For the North American market, Toyota just has to ship the gliders from Canada and then Tesla adds the components and it can then easily be distributed in North America.
I don't think the other markets will get the RAV4 EV until Toyota builds the components in-house in Japan. This is because the RAV4 is made in Japan for other markets and it doesn't make sense to ship it here to the US and then ship it back out.
Plus with Tesla planning to build a Model X, I think Toyota will want to build the RAV4 EV in house after this first batch.
strider
Active Member
I had heard they were targeting 100 actual miles so ideal miles would have to be 120-130. I don't believe "cheap" is a goal - IIRC they're talking about USD40k. Keep in mind the Rav4 is quite large (it's been growing over the years and is now as large as a Jeep Liberty/Cherokee). If you're just looking for a 4-seat EV then the Leaf is a better choice. The RAV4 can seat 4 plus have cargo, dog, etc in the back. I think it will be enough to just be the only SUV EV in production. My wife (who currently drives a diesel Jeep Liberty) is going back and forth between Model S and the RAV4 because she likes being up high to see, likes that she can drag the dog and baby around w/o worrying about the interior, etc. And the RAV4 is going to be a lot cheaper than a Model S.
As for Elon's comments, I'm sure it had much more to do w/ Toyota investing in Tesla but he can't say that publicly - you always talk up your technology partner's products. We in the IT world do it all the time.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
To get 130 miles on LA04 / 100 miles on EPA, RAV would need some 10 kwh more battery than Leaf. That by itself would push the price to $40K.
Depending on how many they plan to sell, they could go even higher. They have no competition at this point.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
There's an optional third row for the RAV4 which makes it 7 or 8 passengers, but it is really only meant for young kids.
Growing EV Industry Still Divided Over DC Charging | PluginCars.com
Hidden in that piece is the information that RAV4 EVs will not be sold to the consumers. It is just for fleets. I guess small numbers and high lease prices.
Hidden in that piece is the information that RAV4 EVs will not be sold to the consumers. It is just for fleets. I guess small numbers and high lease prices.
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