The New RAV4 EV

[dpeilow]

Saw this posted on a mailing list by a Mark 1 Rav4 EV owner:

Interestingly, one of the sales people saw our RAV4EV in the service department and contacted me to see if I was interested in placing a deposit for a 2012 RAV4EV. Will be released next Spring with a price somewhere in the $47,000-60,000 range, yet to be determined. Currently there are 35 vehicles that are running around the bay area as test beds. These were sent to Tesla and had the gas engine removed and Tesla power-trains installed, Predicted range is said be 150-170 miles.

 

[JRP3]

$47,000-$60,000? Ouch. How is that going to compete with a Model S? RAV4's aren't competing with BMW's and Mercs. If the RAV had four wheel drive it might have a chance but choosing between a 2wd RAV and a Model S seems like the S is a clear winner.

 

[EVNow]

Interestingly, one of the sales people saw our RAV4EV in the service department and contacted me to see if I was interested in placing a deposit for a 2012 RAV4EV.

If that sales person is like the usual sales guys, he was just making up the price. Notice how he talks about a much higher range than what Toyota has promised (about 100 "real" miles).

Not that after sales tax & before fed. tax credit, the price won't reach $45K.

 

[Lloyd]

I have one ordered, no deposit required!

 

[JRP3]

Did they tell you the price of the vehicle you ordered?

 

[Lloyd]

No price was given whatsoever.

 

[jkirkebo]

$47,000-$60,000? Ouch. How is that going to compete with a Model S? RAV4's aren't competing with BMW's and Mercs. If the RAV had four wheel drive it might have a chance but choosing between a 2wd RAV and a Model S seems like the S is a clear winner.

Well, I imagine some people need the higher ground clearance and the Model X is a ways off. Also, I think the RAV4EV are more likely to offer things like a hitch, roof racks etc.

I do need either a hitch or a roof rack, having both would be preferable. Having none is a deal breaker.

 

[domenick]

...

I do need either a hitch or a roof rack, having both would be preferable. Having none is a deal breaker.

An after-market hitch is easy-peasy to install yourself and pretty cheap. (This one is $131.00)

 

[EVNow]

I do need either a hitch or a roof rack, having both would be preferable. Having none is a deal breaker.

After markets roof racks are available for most cars. They are now available for Leaf as well from Yakima. You will probably get them for S.

My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Roof Rack

Picasa Web Albums - David Hopper - LEAF

 

[jkirkebo]

An after-market hitch is easy-peasy to install yourself and pretty cheap. (This one is $131.00)

After market hitches might be ok if the manufacturer indicates a towing limit. If the limit is 0 lbs then towing is illegal and the hitch is of no use (this is the situation on the Toyota Prius over here). So it depends also on what Tesla says about hitches, not only what an after market supplyer can put together.

 

[jkirkebo]

After markets roof racks are available for most cars. They are now available for Leaf as well from Yakima. You will probably get them for S.

My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Roof Rack

Picasa Web Albums - David Hopper - LEAF

Thule is the most common roof rack manufacturer over here, but to use a roof rack you need proper mounting points. This might be a problem for cars with the glass roof ?

 

[roblab]

The old RAV4EV was hitched by many of its owners, and in the US that is not illegal, just not warrantied. (If any damage occurs to the vehicle, and it is deemed to be caused by the hitch, Toyota does not have to repair.) That said, there was no weight limit implied or given, and most of us just used small trailers and common sense, although hauling a 1500 lb load of bricks was not out of the question. I imagine it will be the same with Tesla. If you use bigger speakers on their car, they do not warranty them. I plan to have a tow bar, and there are several places that will probably make it custom out of aluminum. We shall see. Obviously, since it was very like the gas RAV4, it was not a question of weight, but of motors getting too hot trying to get their boat to the lake at 70 mph up hill. Electric cars are not for everybody, maybe that group who are unable to understand the reasons.

As to roof rack and glass roof, doesn't the metal roof with sun roof option take up the same space? I suspect the mounting points will be outside the edge of the glass roof, between the roof and the door. Here again, we shall see. And maybe Tesla will not support ANY rack manufacturer. But some will still have racks.

Rob

 

[dpeilow]

Another story on the Rav4 list:

From: Linda Nicholes
Subject: [RAV4-EV] 2012 RAV4 EV prototype test drive

I test drove a Toyota / Tesla RAV4 EV prototype on May 19. My
observations were generally positive with one caveat. Read my blog on
the topic:

A RAV4 EV with the Heart of a Tesla | Plug In America

According to Bill Bergen, National Manager of Training and Technology,
Toyota may only lease and not sell the RAV, although leasing will be
to individuals as well as fleets. Production will, at least initially,
be limited. On my 10-15 mile drive it was difficult to determine
exact range, but I guesstimate a 110 mile range. Mr. Bergen indicated
a range we are very familiar with since it is what we have already
experienced with our legacy RAVs: 85 to 120 miles.

Toyota is very engaged with Tesla in the creation of this RAV but has
not yet signed a final agreement with them.

Linda

From the link:

I steered this rare RAV down Pacific Coast Highway, over to 2nd Street and then zoomed onto the 22 Freeway where the car performed well at higher speeds and in traffic. Here's my main concern, though: The car is designed to take an inconvenient 12 hours to charge at 240 VAC and a stultifying 28 hours to charge at 120 VAC. (Toyota must, therefore, be limiting the charge rate on 240 VAC to 16 amps.) Since the 2012 RAV's usable energy is 37 kWhs, if 32 amp charging were allowed at 240 VAC, a full charge should take a mere five hours. So why would I choose to wrestle with the inconvenience of wrestling around with 12 hours for a Level 2 charge in a supposedly new and upgraded car? What this means is that a 2012 RAV is going to take nearly seven hours more to charge than my 2001 RAV. Really? Even more compelling: my Tesla roadster (the other half of this production equation) takes a mere 3 1/2 hours to charge at 70 amps.

 

[qwk]

Toyota is limiting the charging to 16A? LOL, when will these big automakers get it? Probably when it's too late and they are on the verge of BK like Mitsubishi in the US currently is.

 

[strider]

RE: charge rates...

I wonder if it has anything to do w/ the upcoming plug-in Prius? Maybe the EVSE was already designed for the Prius and since it's battery pack is quite small they went low-power on the EVSE? I realize that shouldn't have anything to do w/ max charge rates if you're at a public charger but I'm just throwing that out there.

 

[TEG]

I was thinking the same thing.

It also makes you think again about why the Leaf has only a 16A (3.3kW) charger built in.
Sometimes I wonder if some concession was made to the power industry to say that the new breed of EVs wouldn't overload the Grid too much? (No proof, just a wild theory.)

 

[JRP3]

I'm thinking it's all about cost savings. Seems as if certain levels of power increases lead to large jumps in component pricing, especially in a newly emerging market such as EV chargers.

 

[strider]

I was thinking the same thing.

It also makes you think again about why the Leaf has only a 16A (3.3kW) charger built in.
Sometimes I wonder if some concession was made to the power industry to say that the new breed of EVs wouldn't overload the Grid too much? (No proof, just a wild theory.)

Well, in the Leaf's case, perhaps it's related to its ability to manage pack temperature? Isn't the Leaf pack air-cooled so maybe a higher charge rate would overheat the batteries? In the RAV4's case that shouldn't matter since it's using the Tesla liquid cooling system.

 

[strider]

I'm thinking it's all about cost savings. Seems as if certain levels of power increases lead to large jumps in component pricing, especially in a newly emerging market such as EV chargers.

Yeah but if they're already buying the Tesla PEM that supports 70A, why limit it? I guess Tesla could be building a cheaper version that can't handle 70A.

 

[TEG]

Well, in the Leaf's case, perhaps it's related to its ability to manage pack temperature? Isn't the Leaf pack air-cooled so maybe a higher charge rate would overheat the batteries? In the RAV4's case that shouldn't matter since it's using the Tesla liquid cooling system.

Yes, Leaf doesn't have active cooling.
They claim they will add a 6.6kW charger option in future, so I suspect they think the battery chemistry can handle it. They also allow quick charge at over 10x the current, but they say that doing that does age the batteries more than a 'normal' charge.