The New RAV4 EV

[doug]

This is certainly more impressive than tossing a Roadster battery pack in the back like vfx was suggesting.

 

[domenick]

Yes, it is impressive. Unless you stop and consider they made their own Rav4 EV starting on '97 with similar range. Of course, this has much better performance and built to today's safety standards. But still.

Also, Ford Focus crew ought to look at that cargo space and take notes.

 

[doug]

Quick Spin: Toyota RAV4 EV Autoblog Green

• The RAV4 EV weighs 3,942 pounds, about 1,000 pounds of which are in the Tesla battery.
• The SUV can go from 0-60 in nine seconds.
• It has an official 100-mile-per-hour top speed (unofficially, test drivers have gotten it to over 103).
• The RAV4 EV has 73 cubic-feet of space, which is exactly the same as the standard RAV4 V6.
• Toyota is claiming a range that varies between 80 and 120 miles from the battery that has 37 kWh of useable energy. The engineers are guaranteeing that the RAV4 EV will beat the Nissan Leaf and its official EPA range of 73 miles. This is nice, but the RAV4 EV is bigger and heavier, an electron-guzzler or sorts, that gets just 2-3 miles per kWh (other EVs get around 4-5 miles), and we assume it will cost a lot more, too. Whatever the official range estimate ends up being, Toyota representatives told us that they will under promise and over deliver.
• The prototype has a Tesla charge port, but the production version will have the standard J1772 connector.
• The demonstration vehicles take ages to charge: 28 hours to fully charge over a standard 110 volt outlet (12 over 240V), but the production version, everyone promised us, will be "significantly improved."

Why does this battery pack weigh more than the Roadster's? Sounds like they're only using a 3kW charger at the moment.

 

[vfx]

You can't say "underpromise and overdeliver".


Then it doesn't count!
'

 

[stopcrazypp]

Why does this battery pack weigh more than the Roadster's? Sounds like they're only using a 3kW charger at the moment.

Probably that is just a VERY rough estimate. The Roadster's pack also weighs about 1000lbs, but given the capacity I would expect the RAV4 pack to weigh much less. Otherwise it might be from using lower capacity cells (maybe to save costs). But given Tesla was quoted that the pack has ~4000 cells that seems incorrect too (since it would peg cell capacity at 2600mAh which is higher than in the Roadster). The only other cause I can think of is it might be related to having to mount the packs under the car (so the weight of the shell probably is higher, even though cell weight is lower).

 

[TEG]

Tesla Powered Toyota RAV4 Quick Dive - AutoObserver

...Sheldon Brown, executive program manager for the Toyota Technical Center, said the batteries in the RAV4 EV aren't the same as in the Roadster and are based on a new cell design that is proprietary to Tesla...

 

[dpeilow]

That's the same mass as the original's. More capacity, but it seems to be going to waste. Proof that NiMH was a good technology...

 

[TEG]

...Proof that NiMH was a good technology...

Certainly for calendar life. The pack in my RangerEV, and many old Rav4EVs are over 10 years old now, and still working at close to new specs.

 

[TEG]

Toyota RAV4 EV Test Drive, Tesla Electric Car 2012 | Clean Fleet Report

...the charging connector is Tesla and has an adapter to make it compatible with the J1772 Standard. The production model will have the J1772 plug and connector...

...The battery is liquid cooled with a tight temperature management for cell life and performance in all temperature environments. Similar to the other Tesla vehicles, any time that the car is connected to the charger or whenever the car is turned on, the temperature management system is active. A separate liquid cool loop for the motor and inverter/controller is also planned for the production model, but they are air cooled in these prototypes...

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tesla Powered Toyota RAV4 Quick Dive - AutoObserver

The electric-drive prototype, which weighs in at a healthy 220 pounds more than the gasoline model

I wouldn't trust the 1000lbs battery quote. The new RAV4-EV is only 220lbs heavier than the V6 version of the RAV4, 582lbs heavier than the 4 cylinder RAV4 (3942lbs vs 3360lbs). Also keep in mind the range numbers for this version will be rated on the newer EPA cycle rather than the old one the original RAV4 EV was rated on.

The 2000 RAV4 the original RAV4 EV was based on had a curb weight of 2668lbs, and the Nimh EV version had a curb weight of 3480lbs, or an increase of 812lbs. The nimh pack had 27kWh, while the Tesla pack has 37kWh "usable" (with more capacity off limits). So about 10kWh more usable capacity with 200/600lbs less increase in weight (depending on I4/V6 comparison).

 

[JRP3]

No way that pack weight is accurate.

 

[qwk]

"This is nice, but the RAV4 EV is bigger and heavier, an electron-guzzler or sorts, that gets just 2-3 miles per kWh (other EVs get around 4-5 miles)".

What other EV's? News to me. These articles are pure guesses and full of inacurate info.

 

[domenick]

"This is nice, but the RAV4 EV is bigger and heavier, an electron-guzzler or sorts, that gets just 2-3 miles per kWh (other EVs get around 4-5 miles)".

What other EV's? ....

Let's see, the Tesla Roadster has a 53 kWh pack... 53 * 4.5= 238.5
The Leaf has a 24 kWh pack... 24 * 4.5 = 108

Sounds like he's in the ballpark to me.

 

[qwk]

Let's see, the Tesla Roadster has a 53 kWh pack... 53 * 4.5= 238.5
The Leaf has a 24 kWh pack... 24 * 4.5 = 108

Sounds like he's in the ballpark to me.

I'm talking about wall to wheel(he very well could not be),as anything else is just useless info when trying to compare vehicle efficiency.

 

[JRP3]

When trying to figure the distance an EV can travel on it's battery pack the charge efficiency number doesn't matter. Most people when talking about vehicle efficiency are talking about the efficiency of the vehicle during travel, not charging.

 

[qwk]

When putting it in the context of "electron guzzler" anything but overall energy usage doesn't make sense.

 

[stopcrazypp]

IMO, the only fair way to compare nowadays is to use EPA numbers, given we have them. The EPA numbers are "wall to wheels" not battery to wheels.

2010 Tesla Roadster: 32 kWh/100 mi = 3.125 miles per kWh
2011 Nissan Leaf: 34 kWh/100 mi = 2.941 miles per kWh

2-3 miles per kWh is pretty typical if that is the EPA rating for the RAV4-EV.

 

[JRP3]

For over all efficiency, yes. However the reality is that very few people ever include or even know the charge efficiency of a vehicle, especially since it can change depending upon charge current and temperature, more so with an actively temperature managed pack. If we add the variability of charge efficiency on top of the variability of drive efficiency we end up with potentially an even less accurate number. I think getting more accurate range numbers is more important than over all efficiency numbers since range is what gets you where you need to go without getting stranded.

 

[EVNow]

2-3 miles per kWh is pretty typical if that is the EPA rating for the RAV4-EV.

That is a big if - definitely not the official EPA rating. One thing to note is EPA uses the 30% fudge factor after dyno test - not sure whether toyota did.

 

[doug]

Another quick drive review. Nothing particularly new.
First Drive: Toyota RAV4-EV | TheDetroitBureau.com

The lithium-ion batteries generate 37 kilowatt-hours, about 50% more than the LIon pack in the smaller, more aerodynamic Nissan Leaf battery-electric vehicle, or BEV. Another key difference is where Nissan has opted for air cooling the battery Tesla engineers chose to go with a more sophisticated – if costly — battery temperature management system, which they believe improves the pack’s performance under a wide range of climate conditions – and increases its life.