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The New RAV4 EV

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by EVNow, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Bearman

    Bearman Member

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    Thanks for posting any experiences on the rav4-ev, there isn't much from owners out there what i can find. Pictures would be nice too :smile:
     
  2. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    #842 TonyWilliams, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
    It's exactly the same charger, of course, in the Model S and Rav4 (and presumably in the Superchargers... 9 of them !!!).

    I have measured up to 42 amps at 240 volts from this charger with an adequately rated EVSE. The charger is rated up to 277 volts, whereby at 40 amps, it would be a 11kW charger!!! It will not pull more than 40-42 amps even if hooked up to a higher amp rated EVSE.

    Most public charging stations in the USA/Canada only put out 30 amps

    So, here's some typical examples:

    ----------- Japan --- USA/Canada - The World --- USA/Canada ------ USA/Canada
    Amps --- 200 volts --- 208 volts --- 230 volts ------- 240volts ------- 277 volts

    16 -------- 3.2kW -------- 3.3kW ------ 3.7kW ---------- 3.8kW -------- 4.4kW
    30 ---------6.0kW -------- 6.2kW ------ 6.9 kW --------- 7.2kW -------- 8.3kW
    40 -------- 8.0kW -------- 8.3kW ------ 9.2kW ---------- 9.6kW -------- 11kW

    Obviously, the charger will output some value below those stated above, at about 85-90%. So, a typical LEAF drawing 16 amps at your house 240 volts will put 3.3kW into the battery, and draw 3.8kW from the wall.

    The Rav4 EV will draw 9.6kW from the wall at your house (40 * 240 = 9600), but at 87.5% efficiency, that is 8.4kW into your battery. At a public charger, with typical commercial 208v * 30a = 6240 watts (6.24kW), at the same efficiency will put 5.46kW in the battery.

    At 65mph on dry, level, no wind, no HVAC, sea level elevation, windows up, the Rav4 will consume 3.4 miles per kWh, therefore the charging speed is 3.4 * 8.4 = 28.56 miles per hour charging at home and 18.56 miles per hour charging at public spots.

    To answer your original question about the 10kW "rating", 250 volts * 40 amps = 10kW.
     
  3. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913

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    Yes, if the Model S has only the standard single charger. If you get the optional twin chargers onboard, you can draw upto 20kW with the Model S.
     
  4. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    #844 TonyWilliams, Feb 16, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
    And in the context of full understanding, if the HPC is in you house in the USA/Canada on 240 volts, it will be 240 volts * 80 amps = 19.2kW, instead of 20kW.

    Then, at 87.5% charger efficiency, that's 16.8kW into the battery.

    Obviously, my 87.5% figure is a guess, and a composite of what the charger might do over a broad range of temperatures. At low temperatures, the battery heater must consume power, and if it's hot, the air conditioner would consume power, and if the battery is cold, it will charge significantly slower, etc. Lower amp / volt EVSE's will cause slightly more inefficient charging do to longer times charging the battery, hence longer times for coolant pumps to run, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Www.myrav4ev.com/forum
     
  5. Bearman

    Bearman Member

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  6. tommolog

    tommolog Member

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    Thanks Tony. I was going to PM you directly and ask(because I knew you'd know!) but I figured it would be better to post in case anyone else was wondering. I knew full well you would chime in and set the record straight :)

    I was just curious why Tesla indicates they have a 10kW charger standard and Toyota refers to it as a 9.6kW onboard charger.
     
  7. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Has this been officially confirmed, or is this conjecture?
     
  8. jerry33

    jerry33 (S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20

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    I think it's by comparing the photos. I don't think you'll ever get an official answer from either company.
     
  9. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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  10. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    The Tesla 10kW charger on the Rav4:

    A58F1B9D-7CC3-429E-9DF1-C051C4C5B08C-6335-000003D7F2B4B45B.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, the car is only officially sold where there is 208 and 240 volts (California) for public and residential use. So, since the charger is 40 amps so that it can pull 80% continuous on a 50 amp breaker, and they are trying to sell Leviton 40 amp EVSE's, I am guessing all roads lead to 40 * 240 = 9.6kW.

    Frankly, ALL these manufacturers spewing usually wrong kW rates would be wise to just list amps. I can see them getting sued over that some day (see my chart a few posts up).
     
  11. tommolog

    tommolog Member

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    Agreed! The official specs for my ActiveE says it can charge up to 7.2kW's. However I have the technical manual and it shows the onboard charger is made up of two 3.3kW chargers so it can only charge at 6.6kW - at the most. I have never measured it accepting more than 6.5kW's I suppose they use 7.2kW's because it's 240v x 30amps. I wrote the program managers and explained how the listing is wrong and suggested they correct that for the i brand cars because it's simply incorrect.
     
  12. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

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  13. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  14. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

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  15. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    The dealerships will be closing very soon in California, so if you haven't bought yet, here's the deal you missed on a 2012 Rav4 EV.

    Toyota Dealerships - New & Used Car Deals & Special Offers | BuyAToyota.com


    Until April 30, 2013:

    Applies to 2012 model year RAV4 EV only. The only differences in 2013 model year is a higher window sticker price, and the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) has a "D" the replaces the "C" in the 8th digit from the right. You will find the VIN through the front window, looking from the outside on the driver's side, at the bottom.

    I do not expect that there will be any 2012 model year cars available after April 30, 2013.

    0.0% APR for 60 months

    PLUS $10,000 SoCal / $9300 NorCal Finance Cash (they call it "subvention", so you still pay sales tax on it in California... your jurisdiction may vary)

    Includes Toyota Care, Free maintenance for 2 years.

    $2000 - $4000 typical dealers discounts (the dealers are getting 2% "holdback", and the salesperson gets $1000 from Toyota USA and the sales manager get $500... don't worry about hammering them on a good deal)

    $7500 federal tax credit purchase ONLY !!! (NOTE: Toyota does not pass this credit to you on a lease - CAVEAT EMPTOR). You get this when you file IRS form 8936 with your federal taxes. No carryovers to the following tax year, so you need to owe the IRS at least $7500 this year.

    $2500 California state credit for lease or purchase; Apply here. Obviously, out-of-state buyers don't get this, but instead you will get your state or local government incentives.

    Sales tax - on an "in-state" purchase, you pay the applicable tax for your county/city. For an in state lease, you pay a "use tax" on the monthly payment. For out-of-state, you pay nothing to California with a proper Bill of Laden from a shipping company. DO NOT TAKE DELIVERY IN CALIFORNIA unless you want to pay our taxes!!! You will pay applicable taxes in your out-of-state jurisdiction. There's a whole thread devoted to out-of-state purchases and leases.
     
  16. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    They will probably start the incentives all over again. Did they sell out? Is the 2,500 over three years divided evenly?
     
  17. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    They did extend the incentives for 2012 model year only until June 3, 2013.

    Assuming 36 months is required for 2600 units for CARB, 72 per month need to be sold.

    On sale: September 24, 2012

    Sep 2012 - 61 ........... 61
    Oct 2012 - 47 ........... 108
    Nov 2012 - 32 ........... 140
    Dec 2012 - 52 ........... 192
    Jan 2013 - 25 ............ 217
    Feb 2013 - 52 ............ 269
    Mar 2013 - 133 .......... 402
    Apr 2013 - 70 ............ 472
     
  18. tommolog

    tommolog Member

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    #858 tommolog, May 4, 2013
    Last edited: May 5, 2013
    Still way behind what they need to sell and once the X is available it will be even harder to sell them. I know the price is in a different league but once there is a real production SUV/Crossover available, especially one with an AWD option then Toyota is going to have to take an even bigger hit to move them.

    If they do expand the program to include sales in NJ(a CARB State so Toyota still gets the credits) and have a qualified service center here (even just one dealership in the State will do for me) plus keep the $10k discount then it may just be too good to pass up. Unless Tesla surprises us and offers the 60kW X with AWD for under 70K before the tax credit because I'd have to go for that then. I don't see that happening though, I'm guessing it will probably start at about $75k to $80k.
     
  19. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    #859 TonyWilliams, May 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
    Tom, the standard issues that come up a lot for out-of-state buyers/leasees of the Rav4 EV is service and warranty. Any Plug-In Prius certified store can service the Rav4, and provide warranty support. If there is something serious (like I've had), they are going to fly in Tesla guys. Even at a Rav4 EV dealer, they still sent 3 Tesla guys down for my motor replacement.

    The offer has been extended to 2013 model year, but only $9500/$8800 for SoCal/NorCal sales respectively. Honestly, if you want one, at over $20k total off the $51k sticker price, it's almost as cheap as a LEAF with almost double the range. Demonstrated 142 miles at 65mph at 3.4 miles/kWh with 41.8kWh available.

    I'd guess about $1000 shipped to your door, just like a Tesla!!! There are already a bunch of Rav4 EV's outside of California. Here's a thread devoted to sales prices of the Rav4 EV.



    Toyota Dealerships - New & Used Car Deals & Special Offers | BuyAToyota.com


    Until June 3, 2013:

    Applies to 2012 model year RAV4 EV only.

    No current offer for 2013 model year Rav4 EV on the website, however it is believed now that there is $9,500 SoCal / $8,800 NorCal and 0% available.

    The only differences in 2013 model year is a higher window sticker price, and the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) has a "D" that replaces the "C" in the 8th digit from the right. You will find the VIN through the front window, looking from the outside on the driver's side, at the bottom.

    I do not expect that there will be many 2012 model year cars available after April 30, 2013.

    0.0% APR for 60 months

    PLUS $10,000 SoCal / $9,300 NorCal Finance Cash from Toyota (they call it "subvention", so you still pay sales tax on it in California... your jurisdiction may vary) for 2012 model year Rav4 EV.

    Includes Toyota Care, Free maintenance for 2 years.

    $2000 - $4000 typical dealers discounts (the dealers are getting 2% "holdback", and the salesperson gets $1000 from Toyota USA and the sales manager get $500... don't worry about hammering them on a good deal)

    $7500 federal tax credit PURCHASE ONLY !!! (NOTE: Toyota does not pass this credit to you on a lease - CAVEAT EMPTOR). You get this when you file IRS form 8936 with your federal taxes. No carryovers to the following tax year, so you need to owe the IRS at least $7500 this year.

    $2500 California state credit for lease or purchase; Apply here. Obviously, out-of-state buyers don't get this, but instead you will get your state or local government incentives.

    Sales tax - on an "in-state" purchase, you pay the applicable tax for your county/city. For an in state lease, you pay a "use tax" on the monthly payment. For out-of-state, you pay nothing to California with a proper Bill of Laden from a shipping company. DO NOT TAKE DELIVERY IN CALIFORNIA unless you want to pay our taxes!!! You will pay applicable taxes in your out-of-state jurisdiction. There's a whole thread devoted to out-of-state purchases and leases.

    *****************

    Typical deal:

    Shoreline Blue and Silver; for Blizzard White, add $200
    Code:
    MSRP                       50,870.00
    Dealer DISCOUNT            (4,082.00)
    Document Charge                80.00
    CA Sales Tax                   3,983.78 (out-of-state, do not pay!)
    CVR                            18.00
    Vehicle License Fees          304.00 (do not pay, get Certificate of Origin to give your DMV)
    Registration Fees             100.00 (see above)
    Tire Fees                       8.75
    Toyota Rebate              (9,300.00) (8,800 to $10,000 until June 3)
    Out the Door Price           $41,982.53
    
    Fed Tax Credit              (7,500) (you'll get this when you file form 8936)
    CA state rebate            (2,500) (arrives in the mail in a few weeks)
    
    Net price                    $31,982.53
    Shipping to you              1,000.00  (varies with out-of-state location and shipper)
    
    TOTAL COST               $32,982.53  
    
     
  20. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    You had a motor go bad in your RAV?
     

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