Things my wife said about Navigate on Autopilot tonight

[SeminoleFSU]

"Was that the car again?"

It really spoils my enjoyment of the car. I find myself defending the car and Tesla even though I get nothing from a decade of support - not even referral credits but actually, I wish that you could just disable TACC below a certain speed, perhaps adjustable. There's a 40mph road that I run very often, it's up and down and a perfect application for cruise control but unlike every other car in the world*, I can't use cruise control because of the phantom braking and the violent resumption of speed - it is the crappiest teenage driver I've ever encountered. There should be a chill mode for the TACC.

It's my hope that the improvements in the AI over time reduce this issue.

(* i3 suffered the same issue, worse even, but you could press-hold the distance control to revert to good old cruise control and peace and quiet and comfort!)

Hear hear on the referral credits! I've been denied two now. I also get really frustrated when the speed limit drops on the hwy and it will aggressively brake to get down to the new set speed it decides based on the new speed limit and my max relative offset. I wish the behavior was different. Perhaps beep and vibrate the wheel, ask you to wiggle the wheel so it knows you're still watching then give it a command: Up on the stalk to keep set speed (yes I know I'm speeding but so is everyone else) or down on the stalk to drop down. Let me decide Tesla!

 

[smoylan]

I've had similar experiences with passengers. I'm totally comfortable with AutoPilot and its limitations, however passengers see them as flaws. The dancing cars on the display, the double beep alert when the lane lines widen and the car doesn't know what to do, the hard braking when you come up behind a car coming to a stop, the phantom braking for no reason - I know why these happen and when to expect them, but trying to explain this to passengers simply discredits AutoPilot to them and makes them doubtful.

Couple that with all of the anti-AutoPilot headlines you see on the news. Really wish Tesla would spend less times on games and Netflix and work on the core functionalities of the car. It's embarrassing to have to explain to people why the above happens when they're already doubtful of AutoPilot.

The system has been around for years now and it still seems like a beta product. You would think after so long and so many miles driven on AutoPilot as data to improve upon it that it would at least be a little smoother if nothing else while in use.

 

[smoylan]

I agree. I have no problem with auto drive on my husband's X, but one of my more frequent passengers drives ME crazy. She doesn't believe the car is safe.

 

[jvandinter]

Wife: "Why is it so jerky?"

Me: "Well, it can decelerate somewhat abruptly while on freeway interchanges..."

Wife: "It's not just around corners, it's all the time on the freeway; why do you use it if it is so bad?"

Me: "Well, I'm trying it out; I think maybe you notice less if you're driving"

Wife: "Well, I notice it. It's ok to try it out if you're the only one in the car, but it isn't cool to do it otherwise"

Me: ...

Wife: If you keep trying to use it, I'm going to stop riding in this car, and we're going to have to take my car*. It's not relaxing.

Me: <disengages Autopilot for remainder of trip>

<a couple minutes pass>

Wife: It's much smoother now. Did you turn it off?

Me: Yes, I did.

Wife: I'm much more relaxed now.


* My wife's car is a Chevrolet Spark EV. That tells you something.

You can't make this stuff up!

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

My wife says the same things. The abrupt stopping for a car turning in front of us she considers dangerous.

 

[TravisCindy]

Ha! It’s the opposite for us. My wife has a 3 with FSD and she uses NAP on every highway drive. I have an X with AP1 and use it a lot. But she has to talk me through the automatic lane changes and abrupt interchanges when we take her car... but she loves it!!




QUOTE="AlanSubie4Life, post: 3993696, member: 88614"]Wife: "Why is it so jerky?"

Me: "Well, it can decelerate somewhat abruptly while on freeway interchanges..."

Wife: "It's not just around corners, it's all the time on the freeway; why do you use it if it is so bad?"

Me: "Well, I'm trying it out; I think maybe you notice less if you're driving"
G
Wife: "Well, I notice it. It's ok to try it out if you're the only one in the car, but it isn't cool to do it otherwise"

Me: ...

Wife: If you keep trying to use it, I'm going to stop riding in this car, and we're going to have to take my car*. It's not relaxing.

Me: <disengages Autopilot for remainder of trip>

<a couple minutes pass>

Wife: It's much smoother now. Did you turn it off?

Me: Yes, I did.

Wife: I'm much more relaxed now.


* My wife's car is a Chevrolet Spark EV. That tells you something.

You can't make this stuff up!

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.[/QUOTE]

 

[FMinMI]

I have to agree with some of that.

Over on the other forum someone stated that if you set the "Auto Pilot Speed Limit Offset" to -20 mph you will get WAY less phantom braking. It is belived that some of the phantom braking is not shadows from bridges but the system getting confused for a moment what the Posted Speed Limit is and picks up the Speed Limit of the road crossing above it for just a moment. By setting it to -20 mph it defeats the Automatic Speed Limit adjustment (mostly). I've driven it for a 1 month that way and not one "Bridge" has tripped it. The other day I factory reset the car and forgot to set it back to -20. First day out WHAM worst phantom brake ever and I saw a car behind me swerve out to the other lane. When you engage TACC with the -20 mph offset it will not initialize at the current speed limit nor will it go to -20 below it. It's a quirky work around but it eliminates most phantom braking. I have seen a couple other cases where a truck was pulled over, cars merging in to the lane next to me and it thinking it might be a threat. Both over reactions. But no more "shadows".

I guess I don't understand this. Wouldn't you end up going 20MPH below the speed limit then? Plus my phantom braking happens without any bridges or cross roads present...

 

[SOULPEDL]

Agreed. I've been seeing similar posts, and I'm wondering if all of these reports of "jerkyness" are coming from owners who don't have "hardware 3" yet - my model 3 was made just before they started making new cars with hardware 3 already installed. Can anyone with hardware 3 chime in?

Not AP3 here, but some observations (others should clarify what you're driving - thanks). I do believe the late reactions to cross traffic is tied to video frame rates (and erring on the side of caution). I have seen similar framerate challenges on tight turns of the road, the wheel is more jerky with less frequent updates. Been wondering if this is same with AP3, anyone?

My wife trusts both my driving or the car with me driving, but this trust in driving in general isn't reciprocal. But she uses it too, I like it that way when I'm in the car. You're (or they're) all just reacting to change in different ways.

Question, why aren't wives on this forum talking about their husband passengers? Men/Women are not the same, and it's probably better that way. (To be clear, Women are better in many ways, leadership included). Just different brains and chemistry in general. Instincts that keep humans alive date back a ways, and I think the ladies win that hands down. Sorry if I'm not PC here, but I'm of a viking line and this car is exciting for me. I'm all about waiting until the last second to see what the car does before I take over. AND the wife is OK with that.

Things that impress me lately:

• Yesterday I watched it react to road signs pushing it over into the next lane (didn't do that before, would attempt to hit the markers as far as I could tell). I had to disengage because it was also being pushed into the car next to me and wasn't confident of the next few seconds.
• I saw it initiate a passing lane change, then abort I believe because the car behind me was simultaneously passing (following me over the lane line). Really good driving example here. I might have missed that risk - can't see in all direction, so I'm handicapped from the get go.

Point is, this keeps improving and we don't want Tesla to create a bunch of band aid solutions and mess up the learning process. Be patient. How long did it take you to learn to drive FROM THE DAY YOU WERE BORN!

And did any of the wives mentioned above dare teach their children how to drive a regular car, or was it Dad? Was that because Dad said so, or mom wasn't up for the risk, or both?

 

[Scarlett]

Wife: "Why is it so jerky?"

Me: "Well, it can decelerate somewhat abruptly while on freeway interchanges..."

Wife: "It's not just around corners, it's all the time on the freeway; why do you use it if it is so bad?"

Me: "Well, I'm trying it out; I think maybe you notice less if you're driving"

Wife: "Well, I notice it. It's ok to try it out if you're the only one in the car, but it isn't cool to do it otherwise"

Me: ...

Wife: If you keep trying to use it, I'm going to stop riding in this car, and we're going to have to take my car*. It's not relaxing.

Me: <disengages Autopilot for remainder of trip>

<a couple minutes pass>

Wife: It's much smoother now. Did you turn it off?

Me: Yes, I did.

Wife: I'm much more relaxed now.


* My wife's car is a Chevrolet Spark EV. That tells you something.

You can't make this stuff up!

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

 

[NYCJONES]

Wife: "Why is it so jerky?"

Me: "Well, it can decelerate somewhat abruptly while on freeway interchanges..."

Wife: "It's not just around corners, it's all the time on the freeway; why do you use it if it is so bad?"

Me: "Well, I'm trying it out; I think maybe you notice less if you're driving"

Wife: "Well, I notice it. It's ok to try it out if you're the only one in the car, but it isn't cool to do it otherwise"

Me: ...

Wife: If you keep trying to use it, I'm going to stop riding in this car, and we're going to have to take my car*. It's not relaxing.

Me: <disengages Autopilot for remainder of trip>

<a couple minutes pass>

Wife: It's much smoother now. Did you turn it off?

Me: Yes, I did.

Wife: I'm much more relaxed now.


* My wife's car is a Chevrolet Spark EV. That tells you something.

You can't make this stuff up!

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

OMG - I thought that I was the only one with a nervous wife. She still barely drives it unless I push her. Yes, an improved AP experience would make for a better experience for my wife and allow me to use it when she is in the car.

 

[Artax]

By setting it to -20 mph it defeats the Automatic Speed Limit adjustment (mostly). I've driven it for a 1 month that way and not one "Bridge" has tripped it. The other day I factory reset the car and forgot to set it back to -20. First day out WHAM worst phantom brake ever and I saw a car behind me swerve out to the other lane.

This isn't a computer game. These kinds of things can cost lives. Drivers shouldn't have to (and most won't) try to figure out kludge work-arounds!!

One big concern I have on FSD is, I don't think it's feasibly safe to implement without some form of Rear Radar, probably side radar too. And probably more sensor hardware. How would you drive through an intersection when the crossing road has no Stop Sign but you do. It does not see cars coming from the side at a distance, or behind you at a distance !! Maybe Highway FSD is feasible with current hardware.

Elon disagrees... he insisted that cameras with sonar support is all that is needed; LIDAR is not required. So far, I am not convinced.

 

[JenkinsEar]

need a new wife...

Wife 2.0

 

[Scarlett]

I Love to drive the car - I paid for full self-driving, but rarely use Auto-Pilot - I Love the Tesla. The Auto Pilot is not relaxing - and for me drives too close to the right... can I modify the car to my preference? - Not today... maybe someday? I don't think your issue is specific to Tesla - My wife and I are still "fighting" over the heat settings - I like "Auto" and she likes "Manual" - guess who wins?

 

[SeminoleFSU]

So happy (well...happy isn't the right word) to read that it wasn't just our car that exhibits this behavior. Every time the M3 does this, I immediately take control and accelerate...as the car behind in the lane into which we're merging comes barreling toward us.

What nearby drivers would expect a merging car to slow before passing?

One thing I do is just let the car do the lane change but i push the accelerator to allow the car to exceed the current speed (which is often above my set max). The car won't accelerate when changing lanes if you're already at your set max.

 

[Phlier]

Agreed. I've been seeing similar posts, and I'm wondering if all of these reports of "jerkyness" are coming from owners who don't have "hardware 3" yet - my model 3 was made just before they started making new cars with hardware 3 already installed. Can anyone with hardware 3 chime in?

I'm hardware 3, but I haven't driven a previous hardware car on AP to compare it to. But to me, my car is plenty jerky. Any more so, and it'd be completely unusable.

AFAIK, they haven't split the code base... we're all running the same AP software at this point, regardless of HW version. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[R1Bill]

The tuning is definitely over aggressive. It accelerates too abruptly and really doesn't appropriately anticipate traffic. Instead of using the sensors to determine what is going on ahead (I typically mentally drive a few hundred yards out) it only looks at the vehicle directly in front of you. As a controls engineer it's frustrating to see all of the capabilities of the sensors being unused. The least they could do is put in a "chill" mode. I did notice that if you increase your following distance, it's quite a bit calmer.

 

[The Gray Foxx]

Here's hoping that Tesla discovers low pass filters soon.

Low pass filters.. is that where it filters out what the passenger is complaining about? That sounds great!

 

[Actaeon]

Sometimes I get so frustrated at my M3, I threaten to pay someone to take it from me!
To all the problems mentioned here, I'd add that the auto left lane change works only about 1 in 4 attempts, often initiating the lane change and aborting mid-way through.
Except for long straight stretches on the highway (which most any car can do well), Tesla's full auto pilot is still in kindergarten. I will never experiment with it around any significant traffic.
Musk's various and frequent predictions that full auto drive is imminent are bogus and ridiculous. It's years and years way. In the meantime, autopilot is frightening and repelling every passenger. NOBODY has asked me to "Share My Referral Link."

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Low pass filters.. is that where it filters out what the passenger is complaining about? That sounds great!

In my experience, if I apply a low pass filter to my wife, she counters with pre-emphasis!

 

[pdq]

You read the same story everywhere. It’s the same with my wife.

AP is just not relaxed when in the car with passengers.

I keep saying AP should be more elastic to create a smoother ride.

I would love to take one of the AP developers on a ride for a few hours and show him/her all the little things which can be improved.

The technology around AP was developed by an Israeli company which will sell/license it to any car company with a checkbook, which is why it is now very commonplace across many, many brands. I think the problem is how Tesla has deployed it, perhaps how it handles data from sensors, how its cameras read the painted lines, etc.

I bought a new 2015 Model S P90D with AP, and after turning it in prior to the end of the lease, I went back to Mercedes buying a car 1 year older than my Tesla, and the AP is incredibly smooth, doesn't drift into adjacent lanes, doesn't do things abruptly, and all the other things that my Tesla did. It just works in the background unnoticed, despite being 1 year old than my Tesla was.

When I complained to people at the SC about the AP issues, I got the same answer as to all the other non-AP items I reported of "It's a known problem". All those problems were still "known problems" 2.5 years later when I turned the car in.

 

[mswlogo]

This isn't a computer game. These kinds of things can cost lives. Drivers shouldn't have to (and most won't) try to figure out kludge work-arounds!!

It's BETA
Don't shoot the messenger. Of course most won't do this work around and those that do might argue it doesn't even help. I think it does.

Elon disagrees... he insisted that cameras with sonar support is all that is needed; LIDAR is not required. So far, I am not convinced.

​

I never said LIDAR is needed. I agree it's feasible without LIDAR. But the car needs the same "sensors" it has facing forward to the sides and rear to be complete.