Thought on I-10 route

[KublaConn]

Really? The 6 million people who live in or near Houston (most of whom seem to be on I-10 at any given time) may disagree with you.

As I type on my computer sipping my first cuppa joe, I am sitting about 3500 feet north of I-10, so I can verify that you are absolutely correct. In Houston, I-10 is an incredibly busy freeway that turns into a parking lot at least a couple times a day (see attached photo). I'm pretty sure that the you'd find the testimony of the commuters of San Antonio and El Paso would be the same. That being acknowledged, it is also fair to point out that the conversation we've been having isn't about the sections of I-10 running through Houston & San Antonio, it's the 860+ mile supercharger-bereft section running from Tuscon to San Antonio, which, for the most part is a lonely stretch of interstate running through remote rural areas. Of the 878 miles of I-10 that runs through Texas, only 212 miles of it are urban and the rest is rural, and that rural aspect only increases the difficulty of finding appropriate places to locate superchargers, that is, until they replace them all with solar/wind-powered stations with plenty of onsite energy storage (and there'll be spandex jackets, one for everyone ).

When it comes to building out a nation-wide supercharger network (a monumental task of Herculean effort that I think we sometimes don't cut Tesla enough slack for achieving) I think one of the key considerations here is long-term goals vs. short-term implementation. When we look at the interstates and highways as arteries connecting points of interest, I'm sure it's just as obvious to the planners as it is to us which roads are key arteries. I doubt that they are unaware of the fact that I-10 directly connects the three most populous states and runs through the 2nd, 4th(we're coming for you Chicago!), 6th, 7th, 12th & 20th most populous cities. Smart management of the logistics of the buildout of such a system would indicate that it's best to start with those key urban areas first and then move on to the intermediate connections to fill out the artery, which is what it seems that they've been doing. It's just that the stretch of interstate we're talking about happens to be a particularly thorny one, with not a whole lot of "stuff" out there. While, yes, I-10 is a key artery, that particular section is one of the least used and most remote sections of that artery. Add in the fact that Tesla has a definite West Coast/East Coast bias (O! Woe is me! How long must the Third Coast put up with this neglect?) and Texas has been fairly prickly towards Tesla in general, and you end up with (maybe) not the most avid & eager attitude towards filling out West Texas. A lot of this is just us being "Hurry up! I want it NOW!" and a little patience will go a long way. As for me, being a confirmed Kerrvert, I'm more concerned with getting from HTX to about 60 miles west of SATX and back, about four times a year.

 

[McRat]

Really? The 6 million people who live in or near Houston (most of whom seem to be on I-10 at any given time) may disagree with you.

There are many places where the I-10 is overcrowded and gridlocked with commuters. West Texas is not one of them.

That is the area with no DCFC support from anyone, including Tesla, which make the 10 unusable for interstate travel coast to coast.

 

[McRat]

PS - I've raced at Houston a lot. And driven the 10 from CA to FL many times.

The 10 sucks the worst in California near LA. Texas doesn't have a fraction of the gridlock.

 

[KublaConn]

The 10 sucks the worst in California near LA. Texas doesn't have a fraction of the gridlock.

Nobody likes a braggart! I think that this is one "contest" I'm happy to lose.

 

[Twiglett]

The other thing about the desert section of I10 in Texas is the 85mph speed limit which will really eat into range with the AC battling 100+ temps at the same time.

 

[KublaConn]

The other thing about the desert section of I10 in Texas is the 85mph speed limit which will really eat into range with the AC battling 100+ temps at the same time.

Don't forget the almost constant high winds, as well. It is definitely a hostile section of interstate.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

and just for your traveling pleasure...there is a modestly high concentration of LEO and speed guns - especially in New Mexico. They were quite pleasant fellows, smiled and chatted and wrote away. and I deserved being stopped.

 

[cpa]

My onliest time driving Interstate 10 west of Phx was in 1971. So, my memory is not only hazy, it is obsolete!

What locations are possible (besides Van Horn) from El Paso to east of the I10/I20 junction? When you factor in the 85MPH speed limit and frequent high winds, I would think that SC spacing should be no more than 120 miles apart, and preferably less for those with smaller batteries or a Model X with a trailer.

And, is the electrical infrastructure along that stretch adequate for Supercharging, or would the utility have to do some work?

 

[KublaConn]

It would seem that the natural progression when heading east out of El Paso would be Van Horn then Ft. Stockton, but then you hit the more problematic section because there's not a whole lot of amenities in the stretch from Ft. Stockton to about Sonora. I'm not saying that there's absolutely nothing out there, just that what is out there will most likely be a convenience store/truck stop type situation and not much else, which only adds to the difficulty of finding spots for superchargers. What do you do if the owner of the only viable spot for fifty miles refuses to play along? This will be an opportunity for Tesla drivers to fully embrace being pioneers, because there's a good chance that there won't be much more than what the original settlers had to look forward to, a place to water your horses and yourself and not much else. Finding electricity shouldn't be too much of a problem because the power lines pretty much parallel I-10. The eco-positive outlook would be to start looking at all of that overly abundant sun & wind that plagues the area and try to change those annoyances into assets by converting them into energy. It would require some substantial energy storage, but I think the Tesla may have a line on that aspect. I think one of the more difficult parts would be having to actually purchase the land. This stretch of highway defintely highlights the shortcomings of an EV, which is another reason that Tesla may be dragging their feet on filling this section out. Imagine the feeding frenzy the shorts would have with a couple of stranded Teslas out in BFWT. I'm sure they're very sensitive to getting it absolutely right before encouraging people to make the trek.

 

[NoPetrolDream]

I've driven the I-20/I-10/I-8 route between DFW and San Diego several times in my life, and can personally vouch for black ice on the road west of Van Horn, Texas in January of 1985. And a traffic jam due to snow and ice leading into Deming, New Mexico on same drive west. Never have driven the 10/20 split east to San Antonio, however, but I would agree that hopefully it won't go too much longer without Supercharger coverage.

Just wondering if there are plans to install stations in Midland/Odessa and Van Horn. Along with the Cisco and Sweetwater stops, that might make El Paso reachable in a Tesla from DFW. From there west could it then be Las Cruces (which has a Ruby Tuesday restaurant) & Lordsburg, NM followed by Willcox, AZ and then Tucson?

 

[napabill]

Unfortunately, I-10 has a very low traffic volume, and traffic volume seems to be the primary selection criteria.

You mean like they have between Cheyenne/Lusk/Rapid City?

 

[snellenr]

You mean like they have between Cheyenne/Lusk/Rapid City?

I think that you have to make allowances there for the "2014 Elon Musk Spring Break Forced Fun Happiness Tour" that never happened

 

[Chuq]

And, is the electrical infrastructure along that stretch adequate for Supercharging, or would the utility have to do some work?

This was the thought that lead to me starting this thread

 

[bollar]

I've driven the I-20/I-10/I-8 route between DFW and San Diego several times in my life, and can personally vouch for black ice on the road west of Van Horn, Texas in January of 1985. And a traffic jam due to snow and ice leading into Deming, New Mexico on same drive west. Never have driven the 10/20 split east to San Antonio, however, but I would agree that hopefully it won't go too much longer without Supercharger coverage.

Just wondering if there are plans to install stations in Midland/Odessa and Van Horn. Along with the Cisco and Sweetwater stops, that might make El Paso reachable in a Tesla from DFW. From there west could it then be Las Cruces (which has a Ruby Tuesday restaurant) & Lordsburg, NM followed by Willcox, AZ and then Tucson?

The owner of the Flying J in Cisco says he also has an agreement to place a Supercharger at his Flying J in Midland.

I-10 in Texas s important, and I look forward to it because it gets me to Big Bend and Carlsbad, but it's not nirvana:

- In the past year, I-10 was closed more days than I-40. When I-10 closes, it closes for several days at a time.
- I-10 does occasionally ice over. If it does, TxDOT is completely incapable of clearing the road.
- Only 1.8 million vehicles a year travel between San Antonio & El Paso - fewer than a million round trips a year.
- I-10 is an alternate for most of us. The only people who would use it as their first choice are already on I-10 between Houston and Tucson.
- Most weeks, there will be 1, maybe 2 cars a week using these Superchargers. If you could count on that, it would be straightforward to install a 2-stall SC and power it with a local solar array and battery storage. However, I-40 does close on occasion, so maybe you need 4 or 6 stalls and electrical infrastructure to support them.
- It's going to cost somewhere between 600K and $1MM to fill out I-10 between San Antonio and Tucson. This is not inconsequential for 50-100 cars a year.

Nonetheless, I do think I-10 will be completed this year, and I look forward to seeing you in Alpine, TX for some skiing!

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

When you put it in terms of $/cars/yr it looks unfavorable. When viewed from a System that mimics a utility, then there are sweet spots and remote spots that have to be embraced. I think Electric power lines, TV cable lines, Telephone wires...all faced the sweet/remote issues. Took me quite awhile to get cable TV to my mountain house - until the regulators said deal-is-a-deal. Ma Bell phones are heavy in old wired circuits and now are getting out maneuvered by cell phone towers. While I WANT to be free to travel anywhere, I understand the reluctance to fill in remote gaps. Without regulators demanding and without an income producing system...the business model falls back on System utilization. Its the right thing to do, they know it and it shows up on the expanded version of the infill map. Im just in a hurry for some one else to pay for my pleasure NOW. {Like snow skiing in Texas - or did he mean water skiing?}

 

[Rockster]

I think the glaring gaps in the Supercharger map are a huge turnoff for potential buyers. I had a conversation the other day with a mom at my child's school. The mom, and her entire family, are huge BEV fans and the husband is a huge Tesla fan, yet they were very unequivocal about buying a Tesla: They won't buy one as long as they are unable to rapid charge when traveling in all the major directions they want to go. As long as I-10 westbound is barren and Dallas-Nashville is barren they're not going to buy. They say they're not going to buy a car that requires them to own, or rent, a second car. I can certainly understand their feelings.

These paths, I-10 to AZ, I-20/I-10 to AZ, and I-30/I-40 from Dallas to Nashville, would open up travel considerably and could be satisfied by 15 or so Superchargers.

Californians don't want to spend 20 or 30 minutes waiting to charge at Superchargers in their own backyard but I'm supposed to be happy spending six hours at a campground every 150 miles or driving double the distance if I want to take my family to Nashville or Tucson?

It saddens and frustrates me that California has 52 Superchargers open, permitted, or under construction while huge regions of the U.S. are so barren.

 

[bollar]

{Like snow skiing in Texas - or did he mean water skiing?}

We'll have to time our ski vacation carefully, but much of Texas has snow at some point. El Paso averages 7 inches a year and all of I-10 has some chance of snow over to about San Antonio, which averages less than an inch a year.

 

[SpiceWare]

I think the glaring gaps in the Supercharger map are a huge turnoff for potential buyers.

What I do is show them the Way Back feature (under Map Options) at supercharge.info so they can see how the network has grown since the first locations went live back in November of 2012. Once they see that they realize it'll be a non-issue in another year or so.

 

[KublaConn]

These paths, I-10 to AZ, I-20/I-10 to AZ, and I-30/I-40 from Dallas to Nashville, would open up travel considerably and could be satisfied by 15 or so Superchargers.

I think it helps to make the issue of even more significance if, when we think about them filling in the I-30/I-40 gap across Arkansas, we not just think of it as "Dallas to Nashville", but also think of it as Houston/Austin/San Antonio to Little Rock/Nashville/Memphis/St. Louis/Chicago. It's less like opening up an electrical circuit connecting two points and more like opening up a floodgate in the middle that will drain the entire tributary system, both upstream & downstream. When I eye the supercharger desert that is Arkansas, my hopes center around being able to avoid having to go through Dallas altogether. I have found that avoiding Dallas is a fairly common goal for most Texans.

 

[Cattledog]

We'll have to time our ski vacation carefully, but much of Texas has snow at some point. El Paso averages 7 inches a year and all of I-10 has some chance of snow over to about San Antonio, which averages less than an inch a year.

It snows in San Antonio once every 25 years. But when it does, an inch shuts down the place.