Thoughts on Yoke from Plaid owner

[Hayseed_MS]

As much as I disagree with you on the yoke (good v evil), I am personally happy for you. That is a good looking wheel and most importantly, you have a car that you enjoy driving.

ETA: you are wrong about the yoke

@TessP100D What do you do not think that is a good looking wheel or do want him to enjoy it? Why disagree with my post? I know it cannot be because of my ETA comment that was clearly a tongue-in-cheek poke and a joke - note smiley.

Lighten up Francis.

 

[TessP100D]

@TessP100D What do you do not think that is a good looking wheel or do want him to enjoy it? Why disagree with my post? I know it cannot be because of my ETA comment that was clearly a tongue-in-cheek poke and a joke - note smiley.

Lighten up Francis.

Easy pilgrim.
if it was a joke, then you get a pass.
let’s be clear… The yoke is a Fricken Joke

 

[Pcm888usa]

I know, I know--

• I'm incapable of accepting genius and revolutionary interface changes like the yoke
• I'm setting myself up to kill myself by making it possible to hold the steering device at 10 & 2
• I'm going to die because I can't clearly see the gauge cluster or the road in front of me
• I'm a shorter

BUT, I went and installed an adult wheel.

It feels like a new car...and often too good to be true (at least until I reach for the turn signal stalk). If I didn't take driving so seriously and had small hands, I'd probably be in the yoke lover's thread, but I just couldn't do it. Maybe if I had given the yoke another week, but I was sick of waiting to "get used to it". I really want to enjoy driving this car as much as possible, and this went a long way.

View attachment 834094

The car would still have been much better with the Model 3's wheel and stalks, but whatev. It's fine for a beater.

Very nice.

 

[_Redshift_]

I’d like to have a steering system that tracks the eye movement.

There are several advantages to such a method:

Unobstructed front view.
Hands are now free to do whatever they want. Yes, you can let your imagination run wild.
Safer, since the driver is now required to keep the eyes on the road, and not on their phone.
Faster U turns, since you can just roll your eyes faster than your hands ever could.
Cant fall asleep, car won’t operate if you fall asleep, another big safety PLUS.

 

[Hayseed_MS]

I’d like to have a steering system that tracks the eye movement.

There are several advantages to such a method:

Unobstructed front view.
Hands are now free to do whatever they want. Yes, you can let your imagination run wild.
Safer, since the driver is now required to keep the eyes on the road, and not on their phone.
Faster U turns, since you can just roll your eyes faster than your hands ever could.
Cant fall asleep, car won’t operate if you fall asleep, another big safety PLUS.

I think I just heard Tesla apply to patent your idea...

 

[DaBean]

I know, I know--

• I'm incapable of accepting genius and revolutionary interface changes like the yoke
• I'm setting myself up to kill myself by making it possible to hold the steering device at 10 & 2
• I'm going to die because I can't clearly see the gauge cluster or the road in front of me
• I'm a shorter

BUT, I went and installed an adult wheel.

It feels like a new car...and often too good to be true (at least until I reach for the turn signal stalk). If I didn't take driving so seriously and had small hands, I'd probably be in the yoke lover's thread, but I just couldn't do it. Maybe if I had given the yoke another week, but I was sick of waiting to "get used to it". I really want to enjoy driving this car as much as possible, and this went a long way.

View attachment 834094

The car would still have been much better with the Model 3's wheel and stalks, but whatev. It's fine for a beater.

I say this as a yoke adopter, this is a nice wheel. It would certainly be welcome for Tesla to offer it as an option.
FWIW I'd still take the yoke (I actually find it more comfortable esp when using autopilot)

 

[_Redshift_]

I think I just heard Tesla apply to patent your idea...

I’ve already started the patent work last week.

I have priority.

 

[Silicon Desert]

I believe the yoke is just a first step to eliminate the circular steering system altogether.
Soon the Yoke will be designed to motor/nest into the instrument pane, opening up that entire space if front of the driver.
Then will come a single joy stick to handle acceleration, braking, and turning.

Great. I haven't used a stick for that purpose in 40 years. (yes I don't actually want a stick for driving but it is great for flying.
Make that 50 years. I am too old to even be able to add properly.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Not it wouldn't. I had some on my drag cars. Not an issue there. Steering ratio took into account the wheel and I was in a world of deep doo doo if I needed more than about 20-30 degrees of steering lock.

Inbnteresting. Ok, you believe it but someone didn't. I really did have my wheel replaced with a yoke back in early seventies (no wheel airbag back then, and easy to replace). A really smart friend that build race car components did it for me. It was fun and unique. I wrongly thought it would be easy to adapt to it, but it took me a month to get comfortable and then I liked it. It's certainly not like having a yoke in a plane! I didn't have the advantage you did.

 

[Silicon Desert]

My original intent on posting this was to highlight how poorly, in my opinion, the yolk does for endurance driving or long distance driving.

Ok, I think you achieved your intent since pretty much every posting since joining has only been about how you dislike the yoke. However, you seem to be hell bent on convincing everyone else not to buy a car with a yoke because you don't like it. I don't intend for this to be a nasty comment if it sounds that way. I'm just baffled why you still constantly debate other people whom seem to be ok with it. What am I missing here?

The wife across the room is saying it sounds like the group of people that want to control her body because it is not what they want for them. Yes, I agree that is another different unrelated comment from the home gallery. Seriously though, why continue beating this horse when you already expressed your view? You aren't going to convince pro yoke people to change, and frankly speaking, they aren't going to convince you to change either  Apologies to anyone thinking these comments are unprofessional. I just don't get the continual debate. People seem to be on a mission here to convince the other side to change.

 

[zoomer0056]

You are 100% correct with respect to suspension, steering etc being the main cause of a wheel returning to centre. What I’ve noticed is when driving a yoke, even the slightest turn or adjustment returns back to centre a bit faster. Almost as if it acts as somewhat a pendulum weight.

Given steering ratios these days and the model 3 being a tight ratio allowing for quick point and shoot driving dynamics, even that slight little bit of extra centre force makes a difference in my view. All cars tend to want to stay straight (alignment assumed) but even staying within lanes seems easier given the yoke wants to stay vertically aligned. Not so with a wheel. What I mean to say is that drifting out of a lane seems to be less an issue. As least that’s my experience

All that had nothing to do with shape of the yoke/wheel.

 

[Plaid to Mod 3]

Ok, I think you achieved your intent since pretty much every posting since joining has only been about how you dislike the yoke. However, you seem to be hell bent on convincing everyone else not to buy a car with a yoke because you don't like it. I don't intend for this to be a nasty comment if it sounds that way. I'm just baffled why you still constantly debate other people whom seem to be ok with it. What am I missing here?

The wife across the room is saying it sounds like the group of people that want to control her body because it is not what they want for them. Yes, I agree that is another different unrelated comment from the home gallery. Seriously though, why continue beating this horse when you already expressed your view? You aren't going to convince pro yoke people to change, and frankly speaking, they aren't going to convince you to change either  Apologies to anyone thinking these comments are unprofessional. I just don't get the continual debate. People seem to be on a mission here to convince the other side to change.

It's easy to convince yourself that the yoke is going to be okay when you first received the car. Obviously you have a lot riding on it and you took a big risk by buying an automobile without a steering wheel. During the first 5 months of ownership of the model S I thought the yoke was really great and told everybody I knew how great the yoke was.

It was only after some endurance driving that I realized that it was far inferior to a 360° steering wheel.

I'm writing these posts to try to help people that are still trying to make this decision make the most informed decision they possibly can and avoid losing a lot of money and potentially their life with the shortcomings that the yoke presents.

 

[Silicon Desert]

It's easy to convince yourself that the yoke is going to be okay when you first received the car. Obviously you have a lot riding on it and you took a big risk by buying an automobile without a steering wheel. During the first 5 months of ownership of the model S I thought the yoke was really great and told everybody I knew how great the yoke was.

It was only after some endurance driving that I realized that it was far inferior to a 360° steering wheel.

I'm writing these posts to try to help people that are still trying to make this decision make the most informed decision they possibly can and avoid losing a lot of money and potentially their life with the shortcomings that the yoke presents.

Thanks for the polite reply. For us, it was not a risk buying a car with a yoke. We drove a car with a yoke for 5 days before deciding to buy one. Frankly, I never buy a car without trying it first. So far in our first 5,000 mile trip, I have no issues, but sure, I understand the reasons from people that don't like it. I see your point about trying to help people understand your experience before they buy. As for me, I don't make decisions based on other people's comments and often it comes down to being a personal thing. My advice to people here is don't take my positive experience or other people's good or bad experience as a decision to buy or not. Drive one then decide.

Sorry to hear your experience has not been good. I guess all your future cars are going to have round wheels. Best wishes.

 

[Plaid to Mod 3]

Thanks for the polite reply. For us, it was not a risk buying a car with a yoke. We drove a car with a yoke for 5 days before deciding to buy one. Frankly, I never buy a car without trying it first. So far in our first 5,000 mile trip, I have no issues, but sure, I understand the reasons from people that don't like it. I see your point about trying to help people understand your experience before they buy. As for me, I don't make decisions based on other people's comments and often it comes down to being a personal thing. My advice to people here is don't take my positive experience or other people's good or bad experience as a decision to buy or not. Drive one then decide.

Sorry to hear your experience has not been good. I guess all your future cars are going to have round wheels. Best wishes.

Obviously the big problem with this whole thing is that it's nearly impossible to test drive any Tesla, and even more challenging to test drive a model S with a yoke. That being said, many people have to make this decision no experience at all, unfortunately. Besides, I think it takes thousands of miles in all kinds of different driving situations to really understand the yoke in all of it shortcomings, so even if the test drive seems to go well I don't think that that's going to be the end of the story for many people, unfortunately.

 

[zoomer0056]

I did not test drive a Model S or any Tesla before I bought a Feb 2022 MSLR. In the four months of waiting for it to arrive I did frequent this forum. My first drive in a Model S was when I drove it off the lot. It took about 10min to get used to regen braking. And I practiced using the yoke in a parking lot, i love the Model S! This S replaced my Corvette very nicely ... no looking back! I did improve finding the horn by putting a raised clear sticker on it.

 

[DayTrippin]

I've written enough about my dislike of the yoke. The fact that even the people who like the yoke have to resort to stupid fixes like putting a clear button to find the horn just illustrates how badly Tesla got so many things wrong. You should NOT have to put a little nub so you can find the horn.

This is crap I still have to deal with even swapping out the yoke for a wheel. Again the yoke may be ok for a lot of people but it potentially will have some short comings in an emergency situation. I just keep thinking if the yoke was the best thing since sliced bread, why did Randy Pobst go with a wheel for his Plaid on the Pike's Peak Hillclimb?

I realize a large group of people here are just straight-line jockeys and the yoke is fine there, but Tesla really didn't put much thought into how they they implemented this. They could have swapped the brake and accelerator pedals on the car and there would be some talking about what a wonderful improvement it is for the car.

Here is their next design choice to go with the yoke. Why don't they totally eliminate the brake pedal and totally commit to one pedal driving? Think of all the money they could save. Slip your foot into a little sleeve for the accelerator/brake. Push down to go faster, to brake, don't just release, but pull up. What an incredible idea that would be! Obviously it would be better because it expands on one pedal driving. What could go wrong?

 

[Pcm888usa]

I've written enough about my dislike of the yoke. The fact that even the people who like the yoke have to resort to stupid fixes like putting a clear button to find the horn just illustrates how badly Tesla got so many things wrong. You should NOT have to put a little nub so you can find the horn.

This is crap I still have to deal with even swapping out the yoke for a wheel. Again the yoke may be ok for a lot of people but it potentially will have some short comings in an emergency situation. I just keep thinking if the yoke was the best thing since sliced bread, why did Randy Pobst go with a wheel for his Plaid on the Pike's Peak Hillclimb?

I realize a large group of people here are just straight-line jockeys and the yoke is fine there, but Tesla really didn't put much thought into how they they implemented this. They could have swapped the brake and accelerator pedals on the car and there would be some talking about what a wonderful improvement it is for the car.

Here is their next design choice to go with the yoke. Why don't they totally eliminate the brake pedal and totally commit to one pedal driving? Think of all the money they could save. Slip your foot into a little sleeve for the accelerator/brake. Push down to go faster, to brake, don't just release, but pull up. What an incredible idea that would be! Obviously it would be better because it expands on one pedal driving. What could go wrong?

I am curious why did you still buy the car with the yoke.

 

[DayTrippin]

No easy way to test drive one before you buy. You really don't know how bad it is (or isn't) until you drive with it for awhile. I waited almost a year to get mine. At least by then there were options to replace the yoke.

I was wiling to give it a while to see if I liked it, could tolerate it or, or just outright hated it. I very quickly found out that the type of driving I mostly did exposed what I felt where the main weaknesses with Tesla's approach.

What I wasn't prepared for was how terrible bad the lack of stalks were going to be for the driving I do. I won't recount all the things I've posted before but 2 issues just drive me crazy about the lack of stalks as they still affect the wheel.

1.) I have a blind intersection that I have to pull out into traffic at. The S has a pretty long nose. You really have to be almost totally committed to entering the road with the car until you have any chance to see if there is oncoming traffic that might hit you. With our 3, it is so much easier in this situation not even factoring in the shorter nose. You can be easing out into the road, see a car coming and just a quick tap of the stalk (without looking) to engage reverse and you can back up very quickly. With the S it is a total cluster truck. Several times it has been way to close to getting t-boned that I am now to the point I drive an extra 5 minutes around the block to avoid this intersection in the S.

2.) Where I have to park the car is with a very tight entrance off an alley. There is no easy way of turning directly into my garage off the alley. It requires a series of 3 point turns (going forward and back) to get the car lined up in the garage where it needs to be and not a lot of clearance. So again this is where the lack of stalks is a total cluster. I don't have a lot of clearance and with the 3 I can keep watching outside the car and just use the stalks to easily engage forward and reverse. With the S you have to take your eyes off the obstacles and find the stupid gear buttons or slide your finger along the screen to repeatedly go back and forth maybe a foot. Not to mention the yoke was very inconvenient here, much more than a wheel.

On a test drive you might experience the first. The second a little harder to do unless you can find a similar situation like you have at home or actually can take the car home.

So these are still the main 2 lingering issues even after getting rid of the yoke. WIth the yoke and without the stalks, I flat out preferred driving the 3 more on a daily basis in the dense city traffic that is normal commute. If I was driving where we used to live in Florida, I didn't hate the yoke as much but I can't say I ever preferred it. I could tolerate it more and see why some people don't have an issue. There isn't a single situation where I ever thought the yoke was better for me. At best it just didn't get in the way.

It isn't because it is a yoke as I flew enough aircraft with them that I am totally comfortable with them. It is just a totally shitty engineering approach they took with it. It was totally half-assed and an absolutely lazy approach. Fine and dandy if you are pretty much going straight line, on the highway, no real tight turns, then all is rainbows and unicorns. Keep it between about 60 degree left or right from top dead center and you likely won't have a lot of issues with the yoke vs. wheel. You are still left with the crappy lack of stalks. Again if on the highway, who cares? Pretty much go forward all the time. Who cares? Do you need to honk the horn in a hurry? Then everyone cares because again a totally asinine engineering/UI decision. I'll even take the old horn on the end of the turn signal stalk over this approach. At least I know where to find the little SOB in a hurry and it is ALWAYS in the same place!

 

[Dan_Foster]

…lack of stalks as they still affect the wheel.

1.) I have a blind intersection that I have to pull out into traffic at. The S has a pretty long nose. You really have to be almost totally committed to entering the road with the car until you have any chance to see if there is oncoming traffic that might hit you. With our 3, it is so much easier in this situation not even factoring in the shorter nose. You can be easing out into the road, see a car coming and just a quick tap of the stalk (without looking) to engage reverse and you can back up very quickly. With the S it is a total cluster truck. Several times it has been way to close to getting t-boned that I am now to the point I drive an extra 5 minutes around the block to avoid this intersection in the S.

2.) Where I have to park the car is with a very tight entrance off an alley. There is no easy way of turning directly into my garage off the alley. It requires a series of 3 point turns (going forward and back) to get the car lined up in the garage where it needs to be and not a lot of clearance. So again this is where the lack of stalks is a total cluster. I don't have a lot of clearance and with the 3 I can keep watching outside the car and just use the stalks to easily engage forward and reverse. With the S you have to take your eyes off the obstacles and find the stupid gear buttons or slide your finger along the screen to repeatedly go back and forth maybe a foot. Not to mention the yoke was very inconvenient here, much more than a wheel.

Your points 1 & 2 perfectly illustrate why I will never buy another Tesla. (I’ve made both points myself, but Elon’s fanboys will have none of it: their cult father, the Edge Lorde of Twitter™, could replace the yoke with a scalene triangle made of barbed wire and the ‘shifter’ with a scrambled Rubik’s Cube® one must solve to ‘shift’—they would still wax poetic about ‘progress’ and brand those who object luddites.)

So sure, we can replace the damfool yoke (kind of…you still get a weird, offset hub), but the awful haptic ‘buttons’ (no feel, loss of functions, wandering horn and turn signals) and the whole the ‘stalkless paradigm’ replete with vile on-screen ‘shifting’ can’t be fixed.

The fact that a $100,000 car came to market with these controls is disturbing—they’re so cheap as to be insulting; so awful that I’ve lost faith in the company. Now the CyberTruck prototype has the same controls: imagine people backing trailers into tight spaces; maneuvering tools & product on a crowded job site; backing a boat down a narrow ramp all with half a wheel and a ‘shifter’ that you can’t feel. I liked Tesla much more when there was no hook on which to hang my suit jacket, but I could flick the car between forward & reverse with my right pinky in three-tenths of a second and find the damned horn in mid-turn. “All input is error,” my ass.

At Tesla, breathtaking hubris and single-minded stupidity go hand in hand with brilliance.

 

[Big Toys]

but Tesla really didn't put much thought into how they they implemented this.

Oh, but they did. And you were getting a yoke anyway.