TMPS - Major Defect. Doubt Tesla will fix it...

[scotty2541]

This is speculation, but here is what I just experienced:
I put new tires on the car, and they didn't pay attention when they remounted them... They swapped the rear wheels left/right. I told them my sensors would be out of wack, and they need to fix it. They said "no problem we can reprogram them..."

Well, after 20 minutes of screwing with it, they gave up. I talked to the shop manager, and he showed me the tool which wasn't reading the sensors. It only covered Roadsters up to 2010. Mine is a 2011. I told him the new ones were crappy, and identical to the early model S. He reset his device to "S" 2012, and read every wheel perfectly. (This confirms the identical devices in Roadster 2.x and early model S). I wrote down the addresses, and confirmed the rear wheels were swapped, but the fronts weren't.

But it didn't allow him to connect to the ODB connector and reprogram. It simply said drive for 15 minutes on the highway and it will reprogram itself. How...? I assume the sensors know which way they are revolving, so they can determine which side of the vehicle they are on. And if needed, it will reprogram the antennas with the updated tire sensor addresses. (I have no idea how they would decide between front and back)

Well, mine failed. Again. As predicted (because they system is garbage). I got that classic TPMS service required message.

So I hooked my sniffer back up.

The rear antenna was reprogrammed with new sensor addresses that EXACTLY MATCH THE VALUES OF THE FRONT TIRE PRESSURE AND TEMPERATURE.
Yes... When the system decided to reset the sensor addresses in the antennas, it erased my addresses:
Front R 08 06 66 ec
Front L 08 06 66 2e
Rear R 08 06 67 2f
Rear L 08 06 66 05
And used my tire temperature (33 Lb 81 F and 41 Lbs 81 F AKA: { 5C 51 5C 51 79 51 79 51 } )
And reprogram my rear antenna with those numbers as addresses!!!

I initially thought it was just random garbage, but then noticed the values were the same. It's taking sensor data and using it as address data to reprogram the antennas!

This is a SERIOUS flaw in their system.

So, where did that command come from? From the "k" line, something in the main computer..? Or CAN bus? Or did the ECU it'self decide to do that? Who knows...

 

[candersoh]

i'm getting the TPMS service required message on my 2011 2.5s. have appointment next friday.

 

[gregd]

It simply said drive for 15 minutes on the highway and it will reprogram itself.

It's always puzzled me about the "drive for 15 minutes and it will fix itself" procedure, when our experience has been totally different. But, something clearly DID happen on your car!

So, thinking (typing) out loud... How did the system know it needed to reprogram itself? Ignoring the swapped front/back (which may just have been bad luck), there must have been some state somewhere that occurs when tires are changed, that causes the system to re-learn what is where...

If we could trigger that state manually, i.e. make the system think the tires had just been changed again, perhaps that would solve the need to do the programming ourselves? Or, do you actually have incompatible sensors (address/data swap?) but in that incompatibility is the clue on how to re-program the antennas over the air?

 

[scotty2541]

It's always puzzled me about the "drive for 15 minutes and it will fix itself" procedure, when our experience has been totally different. But, something clearly DID happen on your car!

So, thinking (typing) out loud... How did the system know it needed to reprogram itself? Ignoring the swapped front/back (which may just have been bad luck), there must have been some state somewhere that occurs when tires are changed, that causes the system to re-learn what is where...

If we could trigger that state manually, i.e. make the system think the tires had just been changed again, perhaps that would solve the need to do the programming ourselves? Or, do you actually have incompatible sensors (address/data swap?) but in that incompatibility is the clue on how to re-program the antennas over the air?

Well, when he issued a "read" from the portable unit, it might have told the sensors to go into some kind of "learn which sire you are one" mode.

Alternately, from my other thread, That TPMS issue, summarized
there is a message of data which I don't know what it means. It's largely empty. 8 bytes, and only every other byte has something in it. Specifically address 33 and 34 (x73 and xB4 when you include the parity bits). It may be some kind of direction indicator.

Perhaps that caused the system to decide it needed to change things around.

When I first started driving after the new tires, it was giving me data just fine. I even checked and saw they didn't have enough pressure in the rear tires. It wasn't later that afternoon, it gave me the fault.

I have manually reprogrammed the antennas again. And the system was showing me tire data again, sitting in my garage. When I drive it, we will see if it decides the rotation directions are wrong, again. That will be next week.

 

[strider]

Of course Tesla's answer will be bring it in to us and we'll reprogram the sensors for the low cost of $90.

Though in this case maybe putting the shop's tool in Model S mode caused it to write values to the wrong addresses?

I wish when the Feds mandated TPMS they made the manufacturers warranty them for 10 years like they did w/ catalytic converters. Hopefully that would cause the OEMs to spend the extra $5 on better components.

I think the ultimate answer is to continue Scott's work on the antenna emulator (if your TPMS ECU is working) and/or figure out how to (easily) unplug/disable the TPMS ECU and then spoof the messages to the VMS (if your TPMS ECU is not working as in my case).

 

[ML Auto]

I wish when the Feds mandated TPMS they made the manufacturers warranty them for 10 years like they did w/ catalytic converters. Hopefully that would cause the OEMs to spend the extra $5 on better components.

The safety features mandated by the Feds are for the life of the car (airbags, seat belts, TPMS, etc.), so we need everyone who ever had a problem with the system to file a complaint. That might be easier than trying to bypass the system.

2.x TPMS - file your complaint and lets get it recalled.

 

[scotty2541]

I sent an email to some VP complaining about a boatload of stuff. The reply was "Sorry no one ever returns your voice mails, and that you wait 3+ weeks before you can get in... We are addressing those issues."

Nothing about the TPMS self sabotaging itself, generating the need to pay Tesla to fix it. (Class action lawsuit anyone?)

Nothing about the mis-quoted parts prices.

Nothing about their inability to correct my contact information.

I discussed the TMPS with a tech this morning. He understood that the device needed to use an "S" setting on a 2011 Roadster, but said he didn't understand the statement about just driving the car. He said they always have to plug into the connector to reprogram it.

 

[gregd]

Reminds me of "ghosts in the machine" from the movie I, Robot... It appears you triggered some otherwise-hidden bit of OTA antenna programming code. Now, if we could do that on purpose (and correctly), we wouldn't need to have the flaky bits of junk replaced so often, or removed for wire-based reprogramming.

 

[scotty2541]

Yes, I am suspecting that his tool which read the tire addresses, also prompted them to go into some setup mode.
Because the tool was capable of causing them to spit out their addresses, they may have done something else to.