So my order confirmation date passed and I chose to leave the 72 A charger off of my order. I made the decision by considering how I'd likely behave differently with the 72 A charger. I reached the conclusion that I typically wouldn't benefit from it when travelling because in most situations I would just make an additional supercharger stop rather than relying on the comparatively slower 72 A charging option at the destination.
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To 72 A or not to 72 A?
- Thread starter investmentgamer
- Start date
That assumes there's an additional supercharger to stop at which is close enough to your destination.
ModelXBoy
No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!
if I were you I will make a call to tesla immediately to add the charger upgrade. Never save 1000 dollars on a 100,000 dollars car. It's only 1% saving. Also the charger upgrade can not be upgraded after delivery. You might potentially regret the whole car purchase for not doing the small upgrade. This feeling will come when you stuck on the road. This is just my honest opinion. The final decision is yours.
Cheers and congrats on the Model X purchase!
CurrentRide
Member
Is there any evidence that regular use of high amperage AC charging might accelerate battery degradation compared to slower charging? Temperature is the enemy of battery longevity, and there are certainly concerns that frequent SC use might have a small measurable toll. I assume that charging at 72A will place slightly more stress on the thermal management systems. This might be a negligible issue for destination charging, but what about daily home charging over years of use?
ModelXBoy
No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!
I believe you do not have to use the 72A capability if you don't have the high amp power the charge it. You can use a slower 40-50A outlet to charge your car for the most of time and use 72A as emergency. This is assuming the 72A might be damaging the battery if charging it every single day over years of use. I don't think there is any document stating the potential damage. Plus tesla is very good in replacing batteries, so there isn't anything to worry. The upgrade charging option is really a get it or regret it option IMO.
pvogel
Member
Modern Lithium batteries are perfectly happy charging at 1-2C (C=the watt-hour (really amp-hour, but in this case it works out the same) capacity of the pack) in the case of a Model X that's 70-180 kW, a supercharger does 120kW, future superchargers based on the 72A charger should be able to do 150+ kW. Our single 72A charger at 240V is charging at 17.2kW. That's 0.25C for a 70 and 0.19C for a 90. No risk of damage AT ALL charging at the full 72A
ModelXBoy
No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!
This is true, but it doesn't have to be very close. Tesla seems to be putting in SCs at about 100-mile intervals. With an 80% charge to about 200 miles of range, I believe it will eventually be possible to arrive practically anywhere with about 100 miles of range remaining (assuming the destination is not far from a major highway). That 100 miles of range then allows one to comfortably drive to another place up to 30 or so miles away and back again. Knowing myself, if I have just driven > 150 miles to get to a hotel, I am not going to want to drive more than 30 miles to get to dinner.
72 amp charging option
I, too, struggled a bit with whether to order this option on my X, but after some research, I did so for the following reasons:
1) Some restaurants and hotels are limiting their destination chargers to one or two hours if you are there only for a meal. They have every right to do that. But they cannot limit the amps, only the length of charge. The optional secondary on-board charger will add 50% to the miles I can charge in that hour or two.
2) Sources I spoke with predict a likely increase in the number of 80 amp Tesla destination chargers in the next 3 years.
3) Unlike the S, this 72 amp option is only available in the initial build and costs less than 1% of the Model X price. Could also help on resale value as many X buyers are not buying it. Contrarians often win!
4) Not likely I will often "need" this option, but it is a cheap form of insurance, much like home owner insurance I'm not likely to need either. But sleep like a baby, I will because neither are available AFTER the need arises.
5) To those who discount my "reasons," I thank you for enhancing the value of my decision!
I, too, struggled a bit with whether to order this option on my X, but after some research, I did so for the following reasons:
1) Some restaurants and hotels are limiting their destination chargers to one or two hours if you are there only for a meal. They have every right to do that. But they cannot limit the amps, only the length of charge. The optional secondary on-board charger will add 50% to the miles I can charge in that hour or two.
2) Sources I spoke with predict a likely increase in the number of 80 amp Tesla destination chargers in the next 3 years.
3) Unlike the S, this 72 amp option is only available in the initial build and costs less than 1% of the Model X price. Could also help on resale value as many X buyers are not buying it. Contrarians often win!
4) Not likely I will often "need" this option, but it is a cheap form of insurance, much like home owner insurance I'm not likely to need either. But sleep like a baby, I will because neither are available AFTER the need arises.
5) To those who discount my "reasons," I thank you for enhancing the value of my decision!
No.
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It sounds like you've drunk the supercharger kool aid. I thought that flavor was only dispensed in California. Take it from those of us with practical experience in the Model S for 2 years or more-- supercharging isn't the solution to every charging need.
Mark Z
Active Member
Even with the 80 amp Wall Connector, I have charged at 5 amps during the night many times. One great feature of the Tesla Model S and X is the ability to change the amperage flow at the touchscreen. The major reason I may charge slower, is to finish the charge just before the need to drive. The result is a higher range without topping off at the last minute.
In the same way, being able to set the charge rate at 80 or 72 amps for Model S and X is a luxury that the electric vehicle deserves. If you resist spending money on yourself, then consider the next owner and the passengers. Help lower frustration by choosing the fastest charger possible for the times you will be glad to have it.
One more thing to consider. If you think you may need power by calling up an 80 amp Tesla Wall Connector owner using PlugShare, think of them. I would appreciate getting the visitor back on the road ASAP. That only happens if the Tesla has the fastest charger! http://www.plugshare.com
In the same way, being able to set the charge rate at 80 or 72 amps for Model S and X is a luxury that the electric vehicle deserves. If you resist spending money on yourself, then consider the next owner and the passengers. Help lower frustration by choosing the fastest charger possible for the times you will be glad to have it.
One more thing to consider. If you think you may need power by calling up an 80 amp Tesla Wall Connector owner using PlugShare, think of them. I would appreciate getting the visitor back on the road ASAP. That only happens if the Tesla has the fastest charger! http://www.plugshare.com
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Edison
Member
if I were you I will make a call to tesla immediately to add the charger upgrade.
[/I
I second the above. Being on the road when you charging plans do not work out is a real trial. Anything that potentially reduces charging time in that sort of setting is a godsend.
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that is, ...".Being on the road when your charging plans do not work".....
[/I
I second the above. Being on the road when you charging plans do not work out is a real trial. Anything that potentially reduces charging time in that sort of setting is a godsend.
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that is, ...".Being on the road when your charging plans do not work".....
Just to add some support for 72A charging - if you're ordering the towing package and plan to tow much, you're going to need all the options you can get. Supercharger spacing is likely to be too tight, and HPWCs come with a long enough cable that you may not need to unhitch before charging. Having the maximum capacity for a quick turnaround seems like a no-brainer for $1000. I mean, that's a year's insurance. Or, in California, probably the first registration renewal fee.
flankspeed8
Member
Looks like now you can select the higher 72 amp on the configurator without having to know about the Easter egg...
Mark Z
Active Member
The 5 amp setting does use more electric as mentioned on other posts I have read on the subject. Much of the time I choose 12, 16, 24, 30, 32 or 40. Part of the reason I have selected different charge rates is to check what 90% mileage range number occurs at the end of charge. Those charge rates also simulate what occurs with some of the J1772 chargers.
The most efficient and battery saving charge rate would be an excellent number to know. After reading the following, a higher rate is more efficient.
Searching the web, there are differences between different EVSE models: http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/vss096_francfort_2013_o.pdf
You definitely want 240 volt charging >2 kWh after reading page 9 here: https://www.veic.org/docs/Transportation/20130320-EVT-NRA-Final-Report.pdf
Keep reading that report for temperature differences. The best efficiency is between 53 and 70 degrees.
One more link to share clearly shows the efficiency improvements at higher rates: http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/fsev/SteadyStateLoadCharacterization2015Leaf.pdf
The question that remains is what amperage level at 240 AC voltage is best for the health of the battery. I called Tesla Motors and they did have some advice, but no charging specifics for the health of the battery, other than avoiding range charge above 90% unless needed and charging before zero miles remain. (IMHO, I attempt to have 50 miles of range at the next Supercharger, it can help to have a buffer of range in windy or cold weather.)
Since the Tesla vehicle will heat or cool the pack as needed for the health of the battery, Tesla did suggest to charge before the battery becomes cold in the winter to avoid a heating of the pack, drawing more electric. IMHO, charging at a lower rate when the battery is hot could help save electricity by not having the cooling fans running, however in the summer, setting a timed start for the morning when the battery pack is cooler should be best.
OT: This brings up one suggestion I have made to those who travel in the winter. Always Supercharge before an overnight stay since the battery is warmer and will take the charge faster. If you have freezing weather overnight and wait until the morning, you will have a longer wait at the Supercharger.
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I think you're treating yourself, not the battery. The difference between various AC charging amps below 40A you're discussing is trivial compared to what the battery takes when supercharging. There is no reason to intentionally charge at less than 40A. Let the battery management system manage the battery and just enjoy your car.
I have ordered the High Amperage charger for both my work cars, and will definitely get it on my personal car if given the choice.
There have been many times when I've got a long trip scheduled in the evening, and I have to drive out during the day. Getting home and putting it on charge for a couple of hours can sometimes save a supercharger stop, and therefore I can't wait to move out of my condo (in which the max I could put was 50A breaker (40A charging)), to my new house (where I can get on to the 100A breaker).
There have been many times when I've got a long trip scheduled in the evening, and I have to drive out during the day. Getting home and putting it on charge for a couple of hours can sometimes save a supercharger stop, and therefore I can't wait to move out of my condo (in which the max I could put was 50A breaker (40A charging)), to my new house (where I can get on to the 100A breaker).
The main reason to charge at less than the maximum is to reduce the heat on the UMC or HPWC. The battery doesn't play into this as both are trivially low as far as the battery is concerned.
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