Totalled my S today....so I confirmed my Model 3 First Production order

[voip-ninja]

You're over thinking this... The simplest approach is just not to hit things:

1) Don't hit things
2) Don't drive in a manner which reduces the system's ability to not hit things (e.g. staying beside other vehicles, out driving sensor range/response, not keeping appropriate following distance, etc.)
3) If a situation is encountered which defeats core defensive driving, see #1
3a) If no escape route exists which satisfies #1, brake as quickly and hard as possible to minimize the kinetic energy of a collision.

An autonomous system will be able to assess the situation and react much faster than a human... so, even if the solution reached is just to burn off energy, you'd still end up with a much lower energy collision than a human driver.

You realize that the video in the OP demonstrates the kind of scenario where "don't hit things" just doesn't work? Sometimes things try to hit you.

 

[voip-ninja]

Yes, and the police would have placed you at fault for causing the accident because you were in his lane. This happened to a friend of mine. A drunk driver was coming head-on with her, so she swerved into the left lane. He saw he was in the wrong lane and corrected at the last moment, and they hit. Insurance and the police blamed her for being in the wrong lane.

That's where a dash cam would have been invaluable.

The part of the story that doesn't add up is him being drunk. In most states if you are drunk you are at fault in the accident regardless of what happened because you weren't supposed to be on the road in the first place.

 

[Petra]

You realize that the video in the OP demonstrates the kind of scenario where "don't hit things" just doesn't work? Sometimes things try to hit you.

Fundamentally, there isn't much difference between you hitting things and things hitting you--just arguing reference frames at that point. The OP's video is a fine example for the process loop described, resulting in the autonomous system correcting to the right (open escape route, unlikely oncoming object trajectory, don't hit the thing) with possible simultaneous braking depending on the likelihood of collision and feedback from traction management... like what OP did, more or less.

 

[electric frank]

I am thinking possible suicide. Or just a terrible time to text on his phone. He seemed coherent, but he made comments that a lot of things were going on in his life and he was a bit messed up.

Thanks for all the well wishes. I remember seeing him, swerving to try and miss and then BANG airbags everywhere. A few passerby were amazed we were both OK. He was probably lucky he was in a Mercedes, another very safe car.

Going to head to the tow yard tomorrow to delete my info on the car and gather any remaining belongings (the car was still powered up when they loaded it on the the tow truck). Will get to test out my Ameriprise coverage with this. I went ahead and placed the 3 order so that can proceed while the insurance works itself out. I can't imagine any resolution other than a total.

Your attitude is WAY better than my New Yorker attitude.. Good on ya...and glad you are still structurally ok.. I hope you keep posting about your experience with the insurance because I'm with Ameriprise also.

 

[Dr. J]

Wow


Glad you're okay but I'm really saying Wow because just by watching that, in my opinion, that could have been avoided, I would have went left.

The reason I marked "disagree" is because the protocol in a head-on collision situation (in North America) is to go right: How to Avoid A Head-on Collision - Mayfair Rent-A-Car. If he were daydreaming and suddenly saw you coming, he would go right and you would steer right into him. There's not enough time to think in situations like that.

Edit: the relevant portion from the link (emphasis added). I think it applies outside of Milwaukee as well.

• Drive to the right. Ditches and shoulders are always better to collide with than other vehicles. If the driver is swerving into your lane and you’ve reduced your speed, drive toward the right of the road. This increases the odds of the other driver going right by you, rather than colliding with you. Also, the driver may realize his or her mistake and quickly try to correct the situation. In that case, you want to be as far right as possible, rather than left. If you are in the left and collide with him, it will be your fault in the eyes of the law. You also have less chance of surviving in affordable car rentals Milwaukee this way. This may be difficult on city roads with multiple lanes of traffic.

 

[voip-ninja]

Fundamentally, there isn't much difference between you hitting things and things hitting you--just arguing reference frames at that point. The OP's video is a fine example for the process loop described, resulting in the autonomous system correcting to the right (open escape route, unlikely oncoming object trajectory, don't hit the thing) with possible simultaneous braking depending on the likelihood of collision and feedback from traction management... like what OP did, more or less.

It's still not as cut and dried as you are making it out to be. When a car jumps the median, in many cases there is no "escape route". There are however situations where the driver has the opportunity to make the "least bad" choice out of a bunch of bad outcomes.

Should the FSD car take the only available "escape route" to avoid the passengers getting hit head on by a semi if it means killing a single pedestrian that is in the escape route? What if that pedestrian is a child?

 

[Dr. J]

...There are however situations where the driver has the opportunity to make the "least bad" choice out of a bunch of bad outcomes.

Should the FSD car take the only available "escape route" to avoid the passengers getting hit head on by a semi if it means killing a single pedestrian that is in the escape route? What if that pedestrian is a child?

How human beings evaluate these questions is subject to considerable framing bias. I have no idea whether machine thinking could do better. In any case, there's little time for thinking in these situations where split-second decisions must be made.

 

[Saghost]

The thing that a human driver can do that an AI will have a hard time doing is making a split second decision between two bad choices and trying to weigh the outcome based on things that an AI currently has little to no understanding of.

A human driver, for example, might make the decision to hit another car if the only other option is to swerve out of their lane and injure or maim pedestrians.... you are about to crash and the only options are to hit a minivan that has young children or swerve and hit a bus full of even more children.

These are the kinds of things that worry me about the eventual arrival of FSD.

While there's certainly a degree of truth to this, those scenarios where the FSD car has to choose and makes a suboptimal choice should be weighed against the likelihood of it preventing an accident that the human would have had.

On the balance, between the car's faster reactions and its better understanding of movement, I think the accidents it avoids will far outweigh the cases where it could have chosen better - though you can be sure that folks with a motive to stop the release of the technology will latch on to the first such case and lambast it with bitter tenacity.

 

[Az_Rael]

Thought I would give an update on my progress, or lack thereof for those following along.

My insurance agent contacted me today and they STILL haven't made the decision to total the car. They have now assigned a supervisor at Copart to the claim. They are blaming the Xmas and New Years holidays for the delay.

On the other side, I got my MVPA from Tesla yesterday for the 3, but it didn't have the correct down payment info, (as no one asked me). So they are scrambling to get that fixed and the document back up in Docusign for me. (My credit union requires a fully signed MVPA before they process the loan and cut the check, so it requires some advance paperwork)

 

[Petra]

On the other side, I got my MVPA from Tesla yesterday for the 3, but it didn't have the correct down payment info, (as no one asked me).

Wouldn't it have been simpler, when using 3rd party financing, to just have your credit union pull your contribution from one of your accounts and roll everything up into a single transaction from the credit union for the full price of the car? That was the process when I bought my S in 2015--less opportunity for Tesla to mess things up.

 

[Moderatefan]

It's still not as cut and dried as you are making it out to be. When a car jumps the median, in many cases there is no "escape route". There are however situations where the driver has the opportunity to make the "least bad" choice out of a bunch of bad outcomes.

Should the FSD car take the only available "escape route" to avoid the passengers getting hit head on by a semi if it means killing a single pedestrian that is in the escape route? What if that pedestrian is a child?

What if there are children on the right and children on the left and the only "least bad" choice is to sacrifice YOU in a head on collision with a semi? Would you agree to buy a car with this kind of logic?

 

[Az_Rael]

Wouldn't it have been simpler, when using 3rd party financing, to just have your credit union pull your contribution from one of your accounts and roll everything up into a single transaction from the credit union for the full price of the car? That was the process when I bought my S in 2015--less opportunity for Tesla to mess things up.

In hindsight, yes. I was spoiled by my very first sales advisor when I bought my 2013. He was on the ball and had all my documents turned around super quick. He knew exactly what my CU needed, and I didnt have to ask. So it was an easy process. Since then, not so much. Oh well.

 

[Az_Rael]

Picked up a copy of my police report today. The other driver admitted to looking at his cell phone just prior to the accident. He told the cops he had looked down at his cell phone in the center console for 1-2 seconds then felt an impact.

So, it was a classic distracted driving scenario, and he probably didn't even brake before hitting me.

 

[Boourns]

Picked up a copy of my police report today. The other driver admitted to looking at his cell phone just prior to the accident. He told the cops he had looked down at his cell phone in the center console for 1-2 seconds then felt an impact.

So, it was a classic distracted driving scenario, and he probably didn't even brake before hitting me.

Good grief. Not that we needed another one, but this is a reminder to just freakin' put your phone down while driving.

Also, since I don't know of another place to put this, Home Shopping Network of all places has Wirecutter's dual channel dash cam pick for $120. Usually the best price is around $200. I'm sure it's not as good as the forum-favorite Blackvue, but for less than half the price I thought I'd give it a shot. Picked up one for my S and one for my wife's car, too.

 

[Saghost]

Picked up a copy of my police report today. The other driver admitted to looking at his cell phone just prior to the accident. He told the cops he had looked down at his cell phone in the center console for 1-2 seconds then felt an impact.

So, it was a classic distracted driving scenario, and he probably didn't even brake before hitting me.

More like spent 10+ seconds fiddling with the phone. But at least he admitted to it, even if he minimized the extent. (He spent more than a second or two on your side of the line in the video...)

 

[Az_Rael]

More like spent 10+ seconds fiddling with the phone. But at least he admitted to it, even if he minimized the extent. (He spent more than a second or two on your side of the line in the video...)

Yes, I am very glad I have that dash cam video. We are going to spend this weekend installing the dash cam in my new 3 and my husband's P85D.

 

[steveho]

I picked up an even less dashcam and so far it has worked fine. It's Anker Roav C1 on amazon for $69. Then I also got the Anker Roav C2 for $49 for my wife's car. So far so good.

 

[Az_Rael]

Yay! Picked this up today! Very different feel than an S - feels like a much smaller car. Lots of visibility up front, but I am still getting used to the speedometer and the weird blinkers, etc. Love it so far!

Will still follow up on this thread with how the insurance debacle works itself out for those following along.

 

[rocketshipp85]

Yay! Picked this up today! Very different feel than an S - feels like a much smaller car. Lots of visibility up front, but I am still getting used to the speedometer and the weird blinkers, etc. Love it so far!
View attachment 271591

Will still follow up on this thread with how the insurance debacle works itself out for those following along.

Congrats, looks great

 

[Jessla]

Wow, when I got my S, it was because I had an accident in my previous car. Sometimes stuff works out. The 3 looks great.