Track camber: arms vs coilovers

[destructure00]

So my DIY kit is spot on for camber. Machine had exact same readings front and rear as I had from my own camber gauge.

I measured 1/8" total toe front and rear using my toe plates. Machine read 1/16" total front (0 L and 1/16" R) and 7/32" total rear (1/8" L and 3/32" rear), so there's a decent discrepancy there. Could be due to minor variations in my garage floor or....???

Shop got me dialed in as follows for street. I'll figure front track settings out later, not planning to change rear at this point:

Front (6mm shim)
Camber -1.6 deg L, -1.7 deg R
Toe: 1/32" L, 1/32" R, 1/16" total (about .15 deg total)

Rear
Camber -2.0 deg L, -2.0 deg rear
Toe: 1/32" L, 1/32" R, 1/16" total (about .15 deg total)

 

[dfwatt]

So my DIY kit is spot on for camber. Machine had exact same readings front and rear as I had from my own camber gauge.

I measured 1/8" total toe front and rear using my toe plates. Machine read 1/16" total front (0 L and 1/16" R) and 7/32" total rear (1/8" L and 3/32" rear), so there's a decent discrepancy there. Could be due to minor variations in my garage floor or....???

Shop got me dialed in as follows for street. I'll figure front track settings out later, not planning to change rear at this point:

Front (6mm shim)
Camber -1.6 deg L, -1.7 deg R
Toe: 1/32" L, 1/32" R, 1/16" total (about .15 deg total)

Rear
Camber -2.0 deg L, -2.0 deg rear
Toe: 1/32" L, 1/32" R, 1/16" total (about .15 deg total)

Nice! Please do share details about your do-it-yourself camber gauge system.

 

[destructure00]

Nice! Please do share details about your do-it-yourself camber gauge system.

This is the alignment kit I bought. It does camber and has two toe plates.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PKI0YSU

Same company makes a camber-only gauge for a little less.
https://www.amazon.com/Tenhulzen-Hand-Held-Camber-Degrees-Accuracy/dp/B00PKI0VT2

 

[MountainPass]

Current MPP instructions don't have washers in the parts list. I wonder if they decided they weren't necessary sometime recentlView attachment 519546

Oops - we'll get those added for the next round of kits. Thanks for pointing that out!

Now that I have the goodies installed I find myself wanting to stand out a bit with a slightly lower stance. @MountainPass did you put crack in the blue anodizing color? Now I need a set of your coilovers FML....er....wallet.

Patience...I tell myself...

Haha, it's not intentional but sometimes the anodizing makes us a bit crazy too. Soon we'll start replacing parts for blue anodized ones even where there is no performance benefit?!

Also, I'll note that I didn't install the included fender liner bolts and haven't had issues so far. But your mileage may vary depending on your suspension setup.View attachment 519639

This isn't a problem unless you're running 14-16mm of shim, and then the back corner of the outer balljoint carrier can grab the fender liner when you hit a bump and make a scary sound!

So I currently have 6mm shims installed and only seeing 1.6/1.7 camber in front. Per MPP guide I should be seeing around 2.2. Seems off by quite a bit...is this within the normal variance range?

View attachment 519693

@destructure00
Yes, it’s normal not getting 2.2 with 6mm shim. I’m getting less than 1.8 with 6mm shim. And that’s with aluminum mounting plate pushed all the way toward the center of the car.

We'll update with those numbers, it is possible our ride height was significantly lower than the average.

Regarding camber gain - I think I saw that mentioned here - yes camber gain is far less with OE link lengths in the front than the rear. This is pretty normal for production cars these days. Note that as you shorten the upper link (front or rear) the camber gain with travel will increase - so the static camber increases, as does the gain from travel.

#noshimparty

 

[destructure00]

Oops - we'll get those added for the next round of kits. Thanks for pointing that out!

Does this mean I should be running washers, or am I ok without them?

 

[MountainPass]

You're fine without them!

 

[DrZoidberg]

How are people "marking" the front tie rod toe setting between track and street camber (MPP fuca)? Any paint pen or just counting turns? Pictures please.

 

[MountainPass]

How are people "marking" the front tie rod toe setting between track and street camber (MPP fuca)? Any paint pen or just counting turns? Pictures please.

A paint pen is safer in case you forget where you are, but I normally count the hexes of the inner tie rod as I turn it. - Jesse

 

[destructure00]

How are people "marking" the front tie rod toe setting between track and street camber (MPP fuca)? Any paint pen or just counting turns? Pictures please.

This is my plan, just haven't had a chance to go to the track since everything shut down. Planning to go the paint pen route.

If I mark the current street position I should be able to get back there consistently. For finding track tie rod settings, I was planning to jack up one side and remove the wheel, measure toe from opposite wheel to this side rotor, adjust camber, then adjust toe back to original measurement. Then repeat on opposite side.

Sound reasonable? Or better to set camber, then take it back to the alignment shop to find track toe position?

 

[dsgerbc]

Anybody has a first hand experience of comparing the MPP and UP/Redwood FUCA design for adjusting at the track?
Is it harder to reach toward the locknuts than to replace the shims through the opening under the frunk lining?

Redwood seems to be going through something weird, UP arms are out of stock, but I can order MPPs.

 

[MountainPass]

Anybody has a first hand experience of comparing the MPP and UP/Redwood FUCA design for adjusting at the track?
Is it harder to reach toward the locknuts than to replace the shims through the opening under the frunk lining?

Redwood seems to be going through something weird, UP arms are out of stock, but I can order MPPs.

Our FUCA's will be back in stock next week! We took our development car to the track yesterday, and swapped out the shims when we got there. It took 2 minutes per side, including jacking up the car. We also didn't have to remove the wheels

You also get to use this cool hashtag.

#noshimparty

 

[dsgerbc]

Our FUCA's will be back in stock next week!

Yes, I saw the update on the order page.
Can you sell me on your design with shims as opposed to threaded bits near the bushings? I live in pothole central, and am concerned about your design being able to withstand pothole hits sending impact up into FUCAs. The other design seems a bit more robust to vertical shock loads.

 

[MountainPass]

Yes, I saw the update on the order page.
Can you sell me on your design with shims as opposed to threaded bits near the bushings? I live in pothole central, and am concerned about your design being able to withstand pothole hits sending impact up into FUCAs. The other design seems a bit more robust to vertical shock loads.

The shim design is purely motorsports inspired and a matter of function over form. Being able to change the camber quickly, easily and most of all consistently is very valuable. Also, try reaching those threaded adjusters while doing an alignment under the car!

The FUCA doesn't experience load like you might be imagining. Vertical forces are absorbed by the spring and damper, with full bottoming out events being transferred to the shock tower through the bump stop and top hat. Lateral loads on the upper arm are quite minimal compared to the lower arm, you can see this in the design of the stock parts. Check out the difference in bushing and ball joint sizes between the upper and lower arms! Our arms are also curved to allow maximum travel, just like the stock arms.

Last but not least, we aren't going to disappear on you for 3 weeks and the instructions are already written and up on our site. We also included a quick start guide for adjusting your FUCA's at the track, since you'll need to adjust the toe at the same time. If you are planning a track day and think you might have some support questions while you're there on the weekend, just give us a heads up so we can make sure to be checking the email so we can help you out.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

-Jesse

 

[dsgerbc]

The FUCA doesn't experience load like you might be imagining. Vertical forces are absorbed by the spring and damper, with full bottoming out events being transferred to the shock tower through the bump stop and top hat. Lateral loads on the upper arm are quite minimal compared to the lower arm, you can see this in the design of the stock parts. Check out the difference in bushing and ball joint sizes between the upper and lower arms! Our arms are also curved to allow maximum travel, just like the stock arms.

Thanks, didn't think that one through carefully.

 

[beastmode13]

Once you go #noshimparty with @MountainPass there is no going back.

 

[destructure00]

I'm itching to put some laps on #noshimparty mode.... installed them and then the world shut down. Hopefully SOOOOOOONNNN...except now it's hot here in AZ, and that means lake season is here. Trade-off between sweating my ba..................ck off at a track day or floating in 85 degree water in a cove, listening to music and sipping on a tasty beverage.

 

[MasterC17]

@MountainPass has top notch customer service and their products are of the highest quality. I would absolutely not be concerned about them breaking or wearing. Changing shims is super simple. I was so impressed with the first set, I ordered a second

 

[MountainPass]

@MountainPass has top notch customer service and their products are of the highest quality. I would absolutely not be concerned about them breaking or wearing. Changing shims is super simple. I was so impressed with the first set, I ordered a second

The arms came in early! We got them today and will get them sent out by Tuesday or Wednesday

 

[dsgerbc]

Ok, ordered as well. Wonder if these will come sooner than install instructions for certain yellow coilovers...

 

[destructure00]

Ok, ordered as well. Wonder if these will come sooner than install instructions for certain yellow coilovers...

The MPP arms really are a great design. So simple to change camber.