Track junkies, need some info

[mattack4000]

Hey guys, I am about to order a Performance Model 3 to replace my track car. I think it is time to move away from oil and get a more practical car at the same time. Anyway I would like to get some information for this car as a track vehicle, please let me know what I should be looking for and I have several questions

#1 On the performance model, only 20s fit right? What is the maximum size tires I can squeeze onto the car with or without stock rims, no spacers or new studs.

#2 The car comes with stagger tires. Can we do 255/30 to minimize the understeer?

#3 How are the brakes for track use? I know they will likely overheat at speed.

#4 How is the track mode as far as keeping everything cool?

#5 Reliability issue? Warranty issue?

#6 Are camber/caster/toe all adjustable? I doubt it, so toe only in the front and camber and toe in rear?

#7 Is charging an issue at tracks?

#8 Any quirks I should be on the lookout for?

Thanks

 

[beastmode13]

Looking forward to another 3 on the track.

1. 18, 19, 20 all fit. There is several threads on this already, search for them.
2. Stock is square 235 setup. Almost all of us stay square with 265 or 275.
3. At a minimum, you need to upgrade the fluid and pads. Racing Brake, MPP, UPP, CarboTech, and Endless, to name a few, have trackpad options. Just make sure they send you the right pad for the rear, both front/rear of P model(red caliper) is different from non-P models. Some of the fastest laps are done with just pads and fluid upgrades. There are BBK upgrades from Racing Brake, Brembo, UPP, and MPP.
4. Track mode is excellent. It does its magic in the background without being overly intrusive.
5. Others can chime in. After five track days in 2019, no issue with mine.
6. Only the toe is adjustable on the stock setup. There are aftermarket solutions for the camber. Look for the pinned master thread by @MasterC17 for a good overview. Other threads go into specifics areas.
7. Not at this time. Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow, and Sears Point all have Supercharging station within 15 miles from the track. 240v RV outlets at the track can get you 8 ~10% an hour, but you would need to rent the RV pad or garage to get legal access.
8. Watch for the huge smile on your face after a couple of laps. Also, at SOC of ~75% you will start to notice acceleration drop off.

 

[mattack4000]

Looking forward to another 3 on the track.

1. 18, 19, 20 all fit. There is several threads on this already, search for them.
2. Stock is square 235 setup. Almost all of us stay square with 265 or 275.
3. At a minimum, you need to upgrade the fluid and pads. Racing Brake, MPP, UPP, CarboTech, and Endless, to name a few, have trackpad options. Just make sure they send you the right pad for the rear, both front/rear of P model(red caliper) is different from non-P models. Some of the fastest laps are done with just pads and fluid upgrades. There are BBK upgrades from Racing Brake, Brembo, UPP, and MPP.
4. Track mode is excellent. It does its magic in the background without being overly intrusive.
5. Others can chime in. After five track days in 2019, no issue with mine.
6. Only the toe is adjustable on the stock setup. There are aftermarket solutions for the camber. Look for the pinned master thread by @MasterC17 for a good overview. Other threads go into specifics areas.
7. Not at this time. Laguna Seca, Buttonwillow, and Sears Point all have Supercharging station within 15 miles from the track. 240v RV outlets at the track can get you 8 ~10% an hour, but you would need to rent the RV pad or garage to get legal access.
8. Watch for the huge smile on your face after a couple of laps. Also, at SOC of ~75% you will start to notice acceleration drop off.

1. Oh I didn't know 18 and 19 fit. For some reason I thought I read only 20s fit over the big brakes. What is the stock width?
2. Good to hear.
4. Do you ever feel any traction control kicking in under track mode?
8. That's an issue. How do we ensure we get to top off everytime. It seems like a pain to have to driver to the supercharger every time. I mostly track at Laguna Seca to be fair. I am too lazy to drive far, maybe Sonoma. I guess I have to pace myself.

I am ready to hit the button now, but i am going to be patient and wait till Q2. I think Tesla usually does some small updates around the start of Q2.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

@beastmode13 answered most of your questions, so I'd only add one thing related to SoC. My understanding is that SoC does not affect torque at lower speeds (at least to a point) and I found the following graph which seems to support that.

From this article

Mountain Pass Performance Tests Tesla Model 3 Power At Different States Of Charge (#CleanTechnica Exclusive) | CleanTechnica

It is old and is RWD so maybe there is new data that contradicts this.

 

[mattack4000]

60kmh, that's like smurf speed

 

[beastmode13]

1. Oh I didn't know 18 and 19 fit. For some reason I thought I read only 20s fit over the big brakes. What is the stock width?
2. Good to hear.
4. Do you ever feel any traction control kicking in under track mode?
8. That's an issue. How do we ensure we get to top off everytime. It seems like a pain to have to driver to the supercharger every time. I mostly track at Laguna Seca to be fair. I am too lazy to drive far, maybe Sonoma. I guess I have to pace myself.

I am ready to hit the button now, but i am going to be patient and wait till Q2. I think Tesla usually does some small updates around the start of Q2.

1. Stock is 20x8.5.
4. Yes. I can feel traction control kicking in. When it kicks in, you can feel it is not accelerating as hard as normally would. It is pretty smooth, not like on/off throttle jerky.
8. Charging is the biggest negative with tracking EV. You have to plan for charging. Each lap at Laguna Sec takes ~5% SoC for me. In a 20min session, I would typically drive 10-12 laps, then pull off the course and head straight to Seaside to charge for 30min or more before heading back. I like to run with NCRC. They have five sessions for green group, plus a bonus session at end of the day. With their spacing, I can start four out of the five session at ~90% SoC.

 

[mattack4000]

Does the traction control use the brakes or cut power? I just don't want more wear and tear on the brakes. With a car this heavy and fast, I can see some horrific brake wear rate. My current car does 3-5 track days

 

[beastmode13]

Does the traction control use the brakes or cut power? I just don't want more wear and tear on the brakes. With a car this heavy and fast, I can see some horrific brake wear rate. My current car does 3-5 track days

Track Mode will manage both power and brake to make the car go where it thinks you want it to go. With Track Mode on, regen is increased as well, up to -0.4G, which helps the deceleration that improves brake wear. With the right pad, 3~5 track days should be very doable.

 

[SD_Engnr]

Does the traction control use the brakes or cut power? I just don't want more wear and tear on the brakes. With a car this heavy and fast, I can see some horrific brake wear rate. My current car does 3-5 track days

Track mode uses a combination of the brakes and torque vectoring. So, yes, you'll likely see rapid degradation of your pads, and boiling of the fluid if you remain stock. It's critical that you swap those out immediately.

My current car does 3-5 track days

Are you saying your current car does 3-5 track days on a set of pads? If that's the case, then you'll likely go through the same quantity of pads.

Do yourself a favor and read through a few of the dedicated track threads, and wheel/tire threads. A few of us have successfully tracked the car, and have all done some early learning about the car on the track (and off), and what works, doesn't work, and how not to take certain corners at Buttonwillow...

There's a FB group called Tesla Model 3 Track and Autocross that has good info, too.

Quit hovering, and just click on the "Buy Now" button.

 

[mattack4000]

How is the brake bleeding process with this car by the way? I did read the pads change require calipers removal, that's going to be a pain.

I have to let all the old cars sale first, I will order it around March. I did drop like 2K on my current car, I really should get a few more days on it

 

[mcbarnet007]

How is the brake bleeding process with this car by the way? I did read the pads change require calipers removal, that's going to be a pain.

I have to let all the old cars sale first, I will order it around March. I did drop like 2K on my current car, I really should get a few more days on it

brake bleeding is same as any other car. Just make sure you never let the reservoir dry.

How often do you go to the track? What's your previous track experience and what kind of car?

 

[mattack4000]

Used to do 10+ a year, cut it down to 1-2 after I had my son. I will probably stay 2-3 a year in the foreseeable future. Oh gosh, my list of cars are long. Corvette, Z cars, Toyotas, Miata, 911s

 

[Uncle Paul]

Like getting any new track car, you will need to learn the personality of the car. It has strong and weak points. The best drivers will be able capitalize on it's strengths.

Example is regeneration braking. Instead of waiting till the last possible second and hammering on the brakes, (which will soon cause them to overheat and become less effective) let the car breath for a bit and regen will slow the car, put some more electrons in the tank, and transfer weight to the front wheels increasing turn in.

You will go smoothly throught the corner and rocket out the exit. Car will love you, you will be fast, and keep some brakes for when you really need them.

This will allow you to stay on the track longer and hone your driving skills. Spend less money on brake components and time replacing them as well.

I used to race Vipers. In them it was more of a matter of heat management than just hammering it around the track. The fastest guys will be smooth and impressive.

 

[kbecks13]

Awesome info from others above, just to add some more - you will typically use 30-40% of your battery from a 20 minute session, so keep that in mind with recharging. You will certainly need to charge at lunch (in between sessions 2 and 3) and many people go supercharge after every session to keep the car fully powered if you are trying to set a fast lap.

Charging is probably the "worst" part about tracking Model 3 since you are somewhat limited in track selection, but in California it's not really a problem and is only going to get better as time goes on. I'm sure a place like Laguna will have their own fast chargers eventually.

 

[destructure00]

As far as charging goes, I've tried the Gen 2 UMC at 32 amps, Gen 1 UMC at 40 amps, and a rigged up HPWC with a 14-50 plug attached at 48 amps on RV outlets at my local track. 32 and 40 amps have not been sufficient to get me through 4x 20 min sessions without supercharging at some point during the day. 48 amps I believe will be just enough. This is assuming ~40% usage per session and 15% per hour recharge rate at 48 amps. Last session would be at a fairly low SOC so down on power but at least doable.

Regarding brakes, the factory pads are garbage for track use. I glazed them over halfway through my first session of my first track day. Get some track pads.

Here's a pic of the HPWC I rigged up for charging at the track. I'm pulling 48 amps from a 50 amp circuit, depending on who you ask this is either fine or I'm going to set everything on fire. First experience with it was fine, so take that for what you will.

 

[Lunares]

Awesome info from others above, just to add some more - you will typically use 30-40% of your battery from a 20 minute session, so keep that in mind with recharging. You will certainly need to charge at lunch (in between sessions 2 and 3) and many people go supercharge after every session to keep the car fully powered if you are trying to set a fast lap.

Charging is probably the "worst" part about tracking Model 3 since you are somewhat limited in track selection, but in California it's not really a problem and is only going to get better as time goes on. I'm sure a place like Laguna will have their own fast chargers eventually.

Do people often gas up in a normal car between session then?

 

[destructure00]

Do people often gas up in a normal car between session then?

When I used to run my BMW I'd go through about 1/4 tank per 20 minute session, could just barely make it a full day on one tank. There's usually a handful of people who leave mid-day to gas up.

 

[kbecks13]

Some also fill up at the fuel station on-site or bring gas jugs. I really want to get a 50 kW Chademo setup trackside, it would be perfect for staying fully charged and would be super convenient - but getting that much juice from the track requires some decent infrastructure.

 

[mattack4000]

Do people often gas up in a normal car between session then?

If you have a 370z, you have to keep the car full (18 gallons) before each session else you will fuel starve. At $7/gallon, it wasn't very cool.

My approach has also changed at the track, I usually just set myself up for a few hot laps and I can usually back off and just coast for the rest of the session. I used to be going all out for 20 minutes, but I am happy with short but good sessions.

 

[MasterC17]

As far as charging goes, I've tried the Gen 2 UMC at 32 amps, Gen 1 UMC at 40 amps, and a rigged up HPWC with a 14-50 plug attached at 48 amps on RV outlets at my local track. 32 and 40 amps have not been sufficient to get me through 4x 20 min sessions without supercharging at some point during the day.

This is a great idea; I have a HPWC laying around and now I know exactly what to use it for, thank you!

OP; I would check out my sticky thread for a good synopsis to answer your questions.

However, the most important things you will want to do is wheels, tires, brakes, and fixing the nonexistent camber. Wheels and tires are all personal preference, there is a giant thread on here discussing that. I'm running 18's with 265's (previously had 275's). As far as brake pads are concerned, IMO the best option right now is the one's from Carbotech. They are a long lasting dedicated track pad for a reasonable price. If you want something a bit more street-oriented see RB. For Camber, MPP is your one-stop-shop. The Front Upper Control Arm's and Rear Upper Camber Arms will solve that issue. Everything else is just icing on the cake really.

FWIW, I have set my fast laps at ~65% SOC, I don't really notice a time-affecting drop off until under about 60% SOC, then it falls offer rather quickly. Doesn't mean you can't still have fun though!

P.S. Track Mode is amazing. I had an F80 M3 before this and "MDM" was completely useless. Cut power constantly. The only way to drive that car was with TC fully disabled. Track Mode does not pose these issues, I really love it.